War on Work: Jesse Ventura and Mike Rowe Tackle the American Jobs Crisis

originally posted by: DarthFazer
Reminds me of a meme I seen today. Here it is.

So very true. And yet much of the middle class blue collar folks seem to think the next republican hopeful will turn this country around.

WRONG ! Guess again, just more lining corporate americas pockets and using our military as dupes to get what they want using religion to achieve it. If you think Barack Obama is bad I can gurantee the next POTUS will make you miss him. Because the stupid outweigh the intelligent. Its all down hill from here folks. I cant blame Jesse Ventura for leaving the country , abandon ship and swim like hell.

and the only thing people and the media talk about is the presidential election....throw the republicans out of congress so we can get moving again....if the next president is republican, then ALL THREE BRANCHES of the federal government and 31 STATE GOVERNORS will be REPUBLICANS!!.....jesus, why isn't anyone talking about this?.......the sound of crickets can be heard on the political TV shows that's for sure.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DarthFazer
Reminds me of a meme I seen today. Here it is.

So very true. And yet much of the middle class blue collar folks seem to think the next republican hopeful will turn this country around.

WRONG ! Guess again, just more lining corporate americas pockets and using our military as dupes to get what they want using religion to achieve it. If you think Barack Obama is bad I can gurantee the next POTUS will make you miss him. Because the stupid outweigh the intelligent. Its all down hill from here folks. I cant blame Jesse Ventura for leaving the country , abandon ship and swim like hell.

and the only thing people and the media talk about is the presidential election....throw the republicans out of congress so we can get moving again....if the next president is republican, then ALL THREE BRANCHES of the federal government and 31 STATE GOVERNORS will be REPUBLICANS!!.....jesus, why isn't anyone talking about this?.......the sound of crickets can be heard on the political TV shows that's for sure.

This is correct:

The remarkable Republican takeover of state legislatures

There are a number of benefits that these Republican successes grant the Party. Most obviously, it gives them a substantial head-start on using the lower levels of government as laboratories for their preferred policy issues which they will likely one day try to bring up to the national level.

originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: Sparkymedic
a reply to: boohoo
Have you considered leaving the manufacturing field all together?

Where exactly in my post did I talk about manufacturing?

I did not.

Where in my most did I say that I worked in manufacturing?

I did not, I only referenced the story that kyleisboss posted, which as many are finding out, a now common theme in America.

None of your other economic counter points invalidates anything that I have said above.

Indeed. My bad. These are long (and Good) posts to read, especially on a handheld. Sorry! I guess just take my reply as a comment!

jobs ARENT scarce ! learn a trade ! you can earn a damn good living if youbare willing to get dirty and put upnwith some discomfort , something this nation of soft men are seemingly reluctant to do anymore . im in my forties and have been a mechanic pretty much my whole life . i never finished tenth grade, but make over 6 figures working in the arctic. i have 4 months off a year and good benefits . if i can do it anyone can . and believe it or not , there are companies BEGGING for tradesman. dont believe it ? google mechanics jobs , or shipfitters , or equipment operators . theres no job shortage , the shortage is of real men who can get out and make , fix and build things . hell i know grown men who cant hang a ceiling fan or change a tire . most cant even tell you what most components under the hood of their car are . its disheartening to see how in forty years or so there is very little interest in the jobs that can actually give you some security in an economic time with very little . man up.

originally posted by: BENBAI66
jobs ARENT scarce ! learn a trade ! you can earn a damn good living if youbare willing to get dirty and put upnwith some discomfort , something this nation of soft men are seemingly reluctant to do anymore . im in my forties and have been a mechanic pretty much my whole life . i never finished tenth grade, but make over 6 figures working in the arctic. i have 4 months off a year and good benefits . if i can do it anyone can . and believe it or not , there are companies BEGGING for tradesman. dont believe it ? google mechanics jobs , or shipfitters , or equipment operators . theres no job shortage , the shortage is of real men who can get out and make , fix and build things . hell i know grown men who cant hang a ceiling fan or change a tire . most cant even tell you what most components under the hood of their car are . its disheartening to see how in forty years or so there is very little interest in the jobs that can actually give you some security in an economic time with very little . man up.

That's the industry that you are in and there are not nearly as many jobs available, as you think, to people whom have never worked a day in that sector. I know because I hire guys like you for my projects.

These jobs can be seasonal or tied to market conditions and projects with definite end dates, requiring the laborer to always be on the look out for upcoming projects with different, unrelated, employers (see the previous steel workers post as an example). Most people whom have worked in offices all their live cannot even begin to fathom the life changes they will need to make to accommodate these job conditions. Its like expecting the janitor at a hotel to suddenly have to do the accounting, for the same hotel, while learning to do it, on the job, despite never having taken an accounting class. Basically, the skill sets between the two jobs are not in any transferable and the time needed to train and learn the skills from scratch (i.e. the employee's hourly wages spent on classes taken out of pocket and employer overhead costs spent training the employee on the job), far exceeds the end value to both the employee or the employer.

If these employers were really that desperate they can just as easily post these jobs to the various state unemployment offices across the country. In the end they would have more than enough minimally qualified applicants to start the journeyman process. But the reality is that these employers are not that desperate, they do not want to train employees in-house and are most likely looking to poach skilled staff from their competitors.

So unless you are in the board room or playing golf with the owners of the companies that you work for, I highly doubt you have the slightest idea what their REAL hiring practices, strategies and outcomes are.

Good points guys.

Coming from the other end, I think if any employer wants to get qualified workers they have to be willing to do at least two things:

1. Be willing to provide the training.
2. Pay a livable wage.

As a person out of employment again, I keep running into jobs that sound interesting but all have the requisite "must have 5 years doing X". As much as I'd like to put in and be willing to do it, they're not going to accept me. Some aren't so stringent, some cert or whatever. But those certs aren't free, and I don't have the money to spend at a community college. There's a big gap there.

The livable wage is important. If I'm putting in my time at a job, there has to be a little bit more of a reward than a "job well done" from the boss. There's rent and bills to pay. Thrifty is one thing, but If I can't keep up and have to plead with section 8 or keep trying luck/patience with random (and perhaps questionable) roommates to get a roof over my head, and decide between eating and (state mandated) car insurance, etc. Then guess what? That job isn't worth my time. Been through that with one employer. As nice as he was in some ways, he was too damn cheap and my patience ran out. Felt like I wasted 5 years of my time for the effort I put in.

Other than that, I'm getting old. Got to find a way to work smarter, not harder. I can't afford to run around like some of the young kids. If there's a preference for anything, it's perhaps something where I don't have to rush and where it's better to have whatever done right the first time.

a reply to: boohoo

They're looking for truck drivers all the time. There's a shortage forecast, and it's substantial. Many companies will put you through school and assist you getting your CDL, in return you work for them six months to a year, and the school only costs you what you paid for food. After a year there are a number of local companies that will hire people so they don't have to be gone all the time.

The pay isn't great when you start, but it's a job, and there are lots of openings. Only truck drivers are looked down on as dirty, or serial killers, or whatever so most people won't even consider it, no matter how desperate they are.

a reply to: boohoo
you dont have to be a journeyman to make good money, and there ARE tons of jobs for helpers and apprentices alike . a simple search of indeed or monster or rigzone even craigslist will show this. nope the problem is alot of the people whining about not finding work , think it is beneath them to do manual labor .
everyone it seems wants a nice , cushy , well paying position that keeps them inside and in clean clothes . im not berating or preaching , im just saying that if you are willing to do what most people arent , then there are thousands of good paying jobs out there . i see laborers with no skillset making 60k a year , granted it takes alot of ot to do it , but it all comes down to do you want it or not . also you may have to travel for work , its not easy but you have to do what you have to do. even in industries that are closing down or moving out , who do you think removes equipment , tears it down and maintains the equipment to do the job ? you just have to look , plan and think outside yourself to get things done . people get into a negative mindset and they believe there is nothing out there , when in reality there is plenty for those that will go get it . and no , i dont play golf . but i have served as lead on some really big projects , including those with military applications . and i realize the thought processes that go into the decision making,i have had alot of say in who gets the job or who doesnt .the bottom line is finding enough people with the right skills who will agree to work for what is offered . i have also seen guys with limited experience being given a chance and performing at very high levels and advancing.
i was told a long time ago , that the future belongs to those who are willing to work with their hands and its true .

originally posted by: pauljs75
As a person out of employment again, I keep running into jobs that sound interesting but all have the requisite "must have 5 years doing X". As much as I'd like to put in and be willing to do it, they're not going to accept me. Some aren't so stringent, some cert or whatever. But those certs aren't free, and I don't have the money to spend at a community college. There's a big gap there.

The livable wage is important. If I'm putting in my time at a job, there has to be a little bit more of a reward than a "job well done" from the boss. There's rent and bills to pay. Thrifty is one thing, but If I can't keep up and have to plead with section 8 or keep trying luck/patience with random (and perhaps questionable) roommates to get a roof over my head, and decide between eating and (state mandated) car insurance, etc. Then guess what? That job isn't worth my time. Been through that with one employer. As nice as he was in some ways, he was too damn cheap and my patience ran out. Felt like I wasted 5 years of my time for the effort I put in.

You post is an absolute fact of life in America today, but people that got lucky in their career paths will piss on your perspective all day long because they don't know how owners and management really think. Unintended career paths these days has NO relationship to hard work, outcomes are all over the place versus 30 years ago and can be both good or bad for all types, including the lazy, smart, dumb or hard working, Theses people like BENBAI66 just assume, "I was in the right place at the right time, worked hard and have it good now, why can't you do the same". Which boils down to predicting the future and being in the right place and the right time. Its so simple, why didn't I think of that!

originally posted by: BENBAI66
a reply to: boohoo
you dont have to be a journeyman to make good money, and there ARE tons of jobs for helpers and apprentices alike . a simple search of indeed or monster or rigzone even craigslist will show this. nope the problem is alot of the people whining about not finding work , think it is beneath them to do manual labor .

What part did you not understand, when I said that I hire skilled labor like yourself to complete my projects. I've said this to other working tradesman, posting on ATS, and I'll say it again, to you. I know exactly what you do for a living, how much profit can be extracted from your labor and what kind of training you must have to complete the projects I am hiring for. Can I do your job, nope, never in a million years, but I know a lot more about how, why and when you get paid, than you will likely ever know. Also, "project leads" aren't typically responsible for bringing in the work, writing proposals or keeping employee logged billable hours profitable.

You are only responsible for carrying out someone else's orders. People on the "team" certainly report directly to you, but at the end of the day you are not the one responsible for "making profits", which affects your ENTIRE perspective. On the flip side, you know next to nothing about what people at my level do, nor could you do my job unless someone at the top, hand picked, you off the line and then groomed your for roughly a decade in their company, putting you on track to be part of upper management.

The reality is that EVERYTHING you have said so far about hiring, is ALL speculation from your perspective (despite in the past being asked to help with one-off hiring descions). At the end of the day, there is absolutely no way you could know any different, despite earning a good wage today, unless of course, in the past you just got tired of running things and stepped down for a less stressful position in the field.

Is this the case? If not, I'll have to call your observations out as being based on faulty analysis of the environment that you are currently working in.

Here is a challenge for you, I've know about five out of work mid to upper level management office workers, in good physical shape with advanced engineering degrees that are willing to work any job, BUT they are all in their early 50's. A couple are amateur triathlete's, one marathon runner and another is an avid road biker.

What kind of entry level position, with on the job training, can you get people like this with no previous trades experience?

To Zaphod58, it should be obvious that sitting in a truck is not a long term solution for people of their age, despite them being in good health currently. I'd surmise that truck driving will quickly take them from being in good health, to some other lesser state of physical condition.

a reply to: kyleisboss

If you are a tradesman or blue collar worker and you end up working for a publicly traded company, LOOK OUT. The business models of these companies deem employees as a COST instead of an asset because they have to keep the stock price going up. So every year its less and less for the workers, and more and more for the salaried people and management. They will gut all your perks and overtime, until they eventually just throw you out and replace you with temps or cheaper workers. When that happens, then they start to go after the office workers, then mid managers, then the thing usually goes belly up or is sold off. That's the capitalism cycle now, companies are CONSUMED for every drop of profit at everyone's expense but the shareholder.

I am convinced that people have to really start looking for an alternative to working for the "man". E-commerce or workers coops may be the future if you want to have any kind of decent stable job. Factory work and working for corporations is no longer viable for a blue collar or working class person, they will just use you up and spit you out. The good news is necessity is the mother of invention, and I think in the future the small business owners, micro manufacturers, craftsmen, and artisans will start to utilize the internet more and more, and we may see a new, more vibrant economy independent of the old corporate system spring up. There are already some sites catering to this. Corporations greed may be their own undoing. They will go the way of the shopping malls and record stores. IMHO that day cant come soon enough.

a reply to: boohoo

And I get that. It was an example of one of many fields that people will never even consider looking at, because it's beneath them. But they'll sit here yelling about how there are no jobs.

I've done total crap jobs that most people consider for college kids or teenagers, but they put food on the table and a roof over my head.

At age 50, I don't know. If you're not a computer wiz or something, the best advice I can give is to start exercising so that you can get yourself in shape so you're able to do a job.

originally posted by: proob4
I been out of work for too long. I want to work but at 50 I cannot do most jobs. Any advice Mike or Jessie?
I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of being poor.

This is by far the best OTG show ever! And Mike Rowe thank for participating, great job.

Please Jessie respond to us at ATS, we feel it's important!

Absolutely.

originally posted by: machineintelligence
I no longer work for a living. I live and there is some work involved. I work to make what I want to see happen actually happen. Unexpected stuff can make that effort challenging at times but the trick is to stay focused and stay the course.
Good show Jess.

a reply to: boohoo
Amen Brother! I am wondering if your use of the phrase "owners of capital" was to deter their legal assault for using the "B" word? He who has the gold makes the rules!

Simple fact,

Welfare pays better.