So...where is this "message"???

The Oregon shooter is alleged to have gven a 'message' to one student he allegedly told was the "lucky one" who would survive.

It's been how many days now? Police have confirmed they are in receipt of a "manifesto". So where is this alleged message, and why has it not been made public in whole or in part?

Message

Is there something contained in the message which doesn't fit the agenda??? (whatever that agenda might be).

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I would be okay with releasing the message in about 6 months after the excitement has died down. And hopefully after the authorities have rounded up the retards on 4chan calling for a beta revolution.

Are authorities withholding the message in an effort to see if all of the inuendo and mis-information out there already will cause another individual or group to react without cause??

Could it be whatever is contained in the message / manifesto would pour water on the current political fire surrounding gun control?

Could it throw a wet blanket into the current racist discussions?

Could it have some bearing on the Muslim extremist climate in the media?

Could it be an epitaph railing on someone in power who would rather not have that message in public view right now?

Could it send the wrong message for upcoming political elections or issues?

Oh sure, authorities can legally withhold the message citing "ongoing investigations" as the reason, but why not just redact the sensitive elements and release the rest.

Why? Where is it? What does it say?

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I would be okay with releasing the message in about 6 months after the excitement has died down. And hopefully after the authorities have rounded up the retards on 4chan calling for a beta revolution.

This.

It's far too soon for the general public to be demanding information, when even the police dealing with it might still be solving/looking into it. Maybe they haven't even deciphered it yet.

Also why must everything have an agenda?
I understand that they do exist, and events are used to push them, but crazy people are capable of crazy things, too. It's way too soon to be jumping to these kind of conclusions, especially when no one even knows what's in this 'message' yet.

Just my opinion, wrong or not.

a reply to: butcherguy

Why "6 months", why not now? Unless it truly contains information pertaining to an on-going investigation, or somehow contains classified information (which I sincerely doubt), then it is a matter of public record.

Politically damaging, or agenda damaging, does not qualify as either of the above.

a reply to: BelowBottomSecret

Conclusions are EXACTLY what people are jumping to in the absence of the message!! Many of these conclusions have already been proven to be baseless right here on ATS, based on what few facts have been released.

Jumping to conclusions in the absence of facts creates more risk, not less.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Given the age of social media forums, I don't think the message was intended for the general public as much as it was intended for law enforcement.

Otherwise he could have posted it on Facebook or some other site if he intended it for public consumption.

No, given that it was to be given to law enforcement, it would more likely be a warning for things to come and a message for law enforcement to act upon, the fact that he necked himself means it was all pre-meditated to kill innocents, give the message then die before he could be taken alive.

All signs of a coward suffering from propaganditis.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yes, and you know how to create less risk? Stop jumping to these conclusions and demanding information about an ongoing, unsolved case.

Wait for some proper, checkable evidence, with sources, and we would have a lot less of these silly theories and conclusions.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

It is irrelevant who the message was intended for; unless the message contains information vital to an ongoing investigation then it is a matter of public record. That's the law. Law enforcement and the courts are not exempt from these laws. In fact, they are one of the reasons laws like this exist.

Protection of information from public disclosure for the purposes convenience is not within the law.

If the perpetrator were still alive, and there was someone to try in a court of law, it would be a different matter, but this is not the case. And even in that case disclosure rules would dictate the release of the information to both counsels. Release of the information to the public (in this scenario) would, at worst, bias the jury pool, but again there is no one to try here.

Where is it?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You raise another good point about the Jury pool, but then in my opinion slightly contradict yourself. If a Jury hasn't even seen it yet, and the police are still investigating it, what makes you think it's early enough for the general public to be sifting through it?

originally posted by: BelowBottomSecret
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yes, and you know how to create less risk? Stop jumping to these conclusions and demanding information about an ongoing, unsolved case.

What unsolved case? Nine people are dead. The shooter himself is DEAD. There is no case here, there is no one to try!

Wait for some proper, checkable evidence, with sources, and we would have a lot less of these silly theories and conclusions.

PRECISELY my point (except for the "Wait for" part); people would stop with the "silly theories and conclusions" if they were given the facts. The public should not have to wait for them...and jump to 'silly theories and conclusions' in the absence of them!

a reply to: BelowBottomSecret

One more time...there is no one to try in a court of law! The shooter is DEAD!

There has not been one iota, not one shred, of evidence or information put forward which would suggest the shooter acted anything other than alone. Not one.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: BelowBottomSecret

One more time...there is no one to try in a court of law! The shooter is DEAD!

There has not been one iota, not one shred, of evidence or information put forward which would suggest the shooter acted anything other than alone. Not one.

I know he is dead, they are still investigating why he done what he did. Why must the general public be given every shred of evidence about a still unsolved, as of yet, case? This opens the door for all kinds of corruption, tainting of witnesses, etc. etc.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: butcherguy

Why "6 months", why not now? Unless it truly contains information pertaining to an on-going investigation, or somehow contains classified information (which I sincerely doubt), then it is a matter of public record.

Politically damaging, or agenda damaging, does not qualify as either of the above.

I don't want to give the little pussy any more fame right now.
There are a whole herd of 'betas' hanging onto this story and the story about how another guy will shoot up a Philadelphia area university today.
Round them up and arrest them.

a reply to: BelowBottomSecret

Because it's the law!

No, what leads to all kinds of "corruption, tainting of witnesses, etc. etc." (in your words) is NOT releasing this information to the public, thereby allowing time for corruption and tainting of witnesses and all manner of under the table deals to be schemed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care what the manifesto says, but we (the people) have a right to know what it says unless authorities can identify what "on-going investigation" would be disrupted...and what the nature of this investigation is. To the best of my knowledge they have not made such a statement to date.

Consequently, it is their duty to release the information, or publically state why they are not releasing it, under the rule of law.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: BelowBottomSecret

Because it's the law!

No, what leads to all kinds of "corruption, tainting of witnesses, etc. etc." (in your words) is NOT releasing this information to the public, thereby allowing time for corruption and tainting of witnesses and all manner of under the table deals to be schemed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care what the manifesto says, but we (the people) have a right to know what it says unless authorities can identify what "on-going investigation" would be disrupted...and what the nature of this investigation is. To the best of my knowledge they have not made such a statement to date.

Consequently, it is their duty to release the information, or publically state why they are not releasing it, under the rule of law.

Ok then I'll admit I'm wrong, we all obviously know how to deal with these things better than professional people trained to deal with them. Let's just let the whole world take a peek and have yet another trial by media.

BBS,

Believe me, I do understand and appreciate what you are saying. However, this does not change the law.

BTW, I am not merely suggesting releasing this information only to the 'media'; I am suggesting it be released to the "public". The media may rebroadcast it, twisting it how they will, but the public should be given the raw data to make their own decisions about what it means.

I believe the public is far smarter than the media would have you think they are. The media in this country has taken it upon themselves to translate everything and spoon feed it back to America, as if they (the people) are incapable of forming their own educated opinion. Of course, in the same breath, the media doesn't hesitate to inject their own opinion about what they think you should think. It's called media spin.

And this is really my point; the longer this information is withheld from the public, the longer the MSM has an opportunity to mold peoples opinions to fit their agendas.

There is a simple solution; release the information, or state why they are unwilling to do so.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Are authorities withholding the message in an effort to see if all of the inuendo and mis-information out there already will cause another individual or group to react without cause??

Could it be whatever is contained in the message / manifesto would pour water on the current political fire surrounding gun control?

Could it throw a wet blanket into the current racist discussions?

Could it have some bearing on the Muslim extremist climate in the media?

Could it be an epitaph railing on someone in power who would rather not have that message in public view right now?

Could it send the wrong message for upcoming political elections or issues?

Oh sure, authorities can legally withhold the message citing "ongoing investigations" as the reason, but why not just redact the sensitive elements and release the rest.

Why? Where is it? What does it say?

The whole purpose of him writing and delivering a manifesto is to insure he gets his "moment in the sun."

I would just imagine he was a deranged loner who craved to be the center of attention and this was his way of accomplishing that fame.

What is it that this lunatic could have to say in his manifesto regarding gun control, racism, politics, Muslims in the media, etc., that would change the way you currently view those topics?

Do you really think this shooter had any valuable insight to offer the world via his personal manifesto?

He's a NUT-JOB for Christ sake! What could he have to offer that's so important to you?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I do understand your points, and believe me I know too well how the media can manipulate an entire country.
(They scared a LOT of people here just last year, but that's another story.)

I just feel that there are, as you say, too many people who form their opinions from the media for this kind of information to be seriously considered being released early, that being said, you raise a great point when you say they should state WHY they won't release it, that I could get on board with.

Again though, that brings us back to the people who rely solely on the media for their information, it just doesn't seem like a viable option, as too many people would simply believe what the TV tells them to believe without researching further for themselves, hence the crazy theories. This is just my small opinion, though.

It's a bit of a double-edged sword.

originally posted by: Flatfish


He's a NUT-JOB for Christ sake! What could he have to offer that's so important to you?

Simple...frame of mind.