12 Times Mass Shootings Were Stopped by Good Guys with Guns

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: darkbake

Here is a list of mass shooting in Australia since the new gun laws and gun buy backs in 1996 .
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Heres the link .
www.gizmodo.com.au...

So they guy who shot the police worker in Sydney was planning to only shoot one person and then make a run for it? The fact is that it was good guys with guns (in this case police officers) who stopped him dead after just one.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

If you purchased 2 years ago you can still spur of the moment kill.

Yes and we still have murders by guns . But a lot less than the US . And that is by per capita .

In 2011 there were 39 gun related homicides. 2012 - 2015 there have been over 400 gun related homicides Australia-wide.

I do not know where you get your statistics from, but maybe you should have a look at the Federal police crimes statistics reports for those corresponding years. They are readily available to the public, as are the state authority crime statistics.

www.aic.gov.au... (it's all in there).

The number of homicides in general are staggering. As specially gang and drug related killings, not to mention motor cycle gang conflicts. In many cases where guns are not readily available, other implements have been used. Gun prohibition in Australia has not worked at all to cull "pardon the pun", the numbers of violent crimes, they have just moved on to use other methods.

However for criminals, they can obtain as many guns as they want illegally and have vast stockpiles around the country. It is estimated that the number of unregistered firearms in Australia is as being between 1.5 million and 6 million.

www.nqhfs.com.au...

We are in actual fact well and truly still on par with the US "per capita" and that's with our current gun prohibition laws.

Just because I cannot get a hand gun (or rather if I want one I have to jump through hundreds of hoops), doesn't mean the people who want to hurt you can't.

The 15 year old who killed a civilian police worker (one fatality, though I'm sure he was intending to kill a whole lot more people that day before he was cut down by police), in Sydney this week used a hand gun and I'm pretty sure it was one of the 1.5 - 6 million unregistered guns too. Just because this was not a mass shooting, does not mean it does not factor into the countries mass shooting statistics, because the fact is that it was the intent of this extremist to continue killing until he was stopped. Just lucky for us, that he was stopped after one fatality.

As I said in another post, gun prohibition does not stop crime, it just changes the odds in favour of those whom care little about obeying the law.

a reply to: darkbake

That made for some interesting reading.. I am in the camp that says take away the guns from law abiding citizens and all you will have left are the law breakers and bad guys armed.

Gun free zones only keep the law abiding citizens from arming themselves when on the property. It is like a free shooting gallery for someone with bad intentions....

While these cases are interesting there are hundreds and thousands of cases where someone armed shows up and the bad guys run away.. Used to be several article on Google to that effect.. Probably been remove by the PC police by now..

I read the article and noticed one thing. Several times people had to run out to their vehicle to retrieve their weapon, while the shooter was still shooting because of the so called "Gun Free Zones".

I've said this in other posts and I'll say it here. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT GUN LAWS HAVE AN EFFECT ON ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

One statistic that is almost never mentioned is the number of times a crime has been prevented because the criminal noticed that their intended victim was armed.

Last year I was on crutches because of a knee injury. One of my company's branch offices is in a not so nice section of town (think crack being sold in Happy Meals at the McDonald's across the parking lot). When I go there I always carry concealed. When I was leaving I was asked if I would give a couple of our customer's reps a ride to their hotel. It is just after dark, we come out of the building, me on crutches, two extremely good looking young women and about $10,000 worth of laptops, cell phones and other electronics. Across the way are four guys passing around a bottle of liquor, sitting on the hood of a car. They see us and start towards us. That is when I move my jacket aside so they can see the pistol that I have in a shoulder holster. They turn around, get in their car and leave. This happened so quickly that the women with me never even noticed.

Several years earlier I worked for a different company. After a man assaulted our receptionist right in our lobby, a few of us started bringing our guns into the office. There had been a series of rapes reported in the area, so we started going out to the parking lot and checking the cars before we would allow the women in the office to leave. One evening we found a guy hiding in the back of one of the girl's car. The Police were called, but, I'm sure that it didn't make it into any of the statistics.

As far as the "living in fear" bit goes, I have to ask where did the poster get that idea from? I don't know of anybody who lives in "fear".

By the way, how many stabbings were there in Australia last year?

a reply to: 3n19m470

Apply a little practical psychology. The kind of person who builds a gun from scratch is never going to use that gun to kill someone. The makers and the marrers of the world are separate tribes.

originally posted by: Astyanax
Apply a little practical psychology. The kind of person who builds a gun from scratch is never going to use that gun to kill someone. The makers and the marrers of the world are separate tribes.

Except that we know from real-world experience that this isn't true. Criminals can and will attempt to make a crude firearm out of random junk that they cobble together. These improvised firearms, commonly called 'zip guns', have been an issue at times in the past in the US (and elsewhere), though not so much in the last few decades.

a reply to: vor78

How many people have been killed by homemade guns?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: vor78

How many people have been killed by homemade guns?

Its hard to say at this point, nor do I know how the official statistics categorize them. Again, this was more of an issue in the past in the US than in the present...mainly because criminals these days have no trouble obtaining an illegal gun from one of the other crooks in the ghetto. Still, you do hear of people being picked up for it from time to time:

crimeblog.dallasnews.com...

And here's another one.

a reply to: Astyanax

How many people have been killed by homemade guns?

Way back in the 1970s one of my cousins accidentally killed himself with a zip gun. But, I admit that mass shootings are a little more difficult with homemade weapons of this type, due to their single shot nature.

However, a great deal of progress has been made in the field of 3D printing of firearms. There have been several recent demonstrations of weapons manufactured this way.

So, as 3D printing becomes more ubiquitous, standard gun control laws become more difficult to enforce. And, presumably that means that places like Australia and Europe may begin seeing more firearm related crimes.


-dex

you just have to remember, that more guns isn't always the answer.

Just because you allow teachers to carry guns, doesn't mean they will. Only a small percentage of the population carries guns with them. And many of them, have the gun and maybe took a course once in their life or shot it once or twice and that's it. How effective will they be in a fire fight.

Keep that in mind.

Armed guards are another thing, but with that, there is the cost of paying them. Increased school budgets is usually not going to happen.

Thirdly, there will always be a few places with no guns. Airplanes for one, maybe the pilot has one and maybe there is an air marshal but that's not certain. Courthouses will never allow people with guns in the courtroom. To many raw emotions.

The one mass shooting i remember when i was young was the University of Texas Tower sniper on August 1, 1966.

This was before `SWAT teams and collage gun free zones and when city cops only were armed with handguns and shotguns.

A number of lives were saved when some students got there hunting rifles from there cars and trucks and took the sniper under counterfire allowing a number of the wounded to be rescued.

en.wikipedia.org...
pjmedia.com...
www.westernjournalism.com...
www.frontpagemag.com...

What about the hundreds of kids killed by playing with guns every year? Of course children's lives don't matter except when trying to get religious extremists to vote for you.

Guns cause far, far more harm than good.

a reply to: DexterRiley

Not an answer to my question, is it?

America, even your children are killing each other with guns.

Your idolatrous worship of a piece of paper has driven your country mad.

a reply to: Astyanax

Not an answer to my question, is it?

I don't think that a specific answer to your question is available. At this point in time, the number is likely to be rather low.

However, I provided a specific anecdote of how a homemade firearm affected my life. I also provided further information about the future of personally manufactured firearms.

My point is that in the near future it's going to be nearly impossible to limit the proliferation of these weapons. And this will inevitably lead to firearms being available in a lot of places that they are not now available. Like your country, for instance, wherever that is.

At least in the US we'll have the ability to legally own a weapon that can used to defend ourselves against someone who has availed themselves of this technology to create an illegal firearm for themselves.

Your question concerned past behavior and was apparently based on the mistaken belief that past behavior would set the precedent for future actions. Certainly in the case of personally manufactured firearms, that is not a valid assumption. In fact, given our current pace of technological development, virtually all of the current gun-control paradigms will be invalidated.

The NRA used to have a tagline: "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." As these 3D printed guns become more available on a global basis, those nations that currently enjoy a relative peace based on their strict gun-control laws may find themselves at the mercy of their own tight controls. A person who doesn't care about obeying the law in the first place is not going to be too concerned with breaking the law to create and use a firearm of their own making.

Your idolatrous worship of a piece of paper has driven your country mad.

A lot of people trot out the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution as a blanket permission to own as many firearms as they want; and to carry them wherever they want. And by the same token, people who don't live in the US believe the American populace is hiding behind this " idolatrous worship of a piece of paper" as you put it. The true fact of the matter is that the US is a gun culture. Since the inception of this nation, firearms have been an integral part of our way-of-life. As a child growing up in this country, it never occurred to me that there were any households that didn't have at least one firearm.

But, you are correct, in that this nation is going mad. These widely publicized mass shootings are a symptom of a much more pervasive problem than just the ready availability of firearms. One issue that surfaces time and time again is the actual presence of mental illness. These instances of mental illness by default predate these shooters' homicidal actions. It seems to me that trying to address the underlying cause of this insanity is as important as trying to limit the availability of weapons to those who should not have them.

As someone who suffers from mental illness, I can say that mental health care in the US can stand some improvement. In fact, in my opinion, I believe the entire mental health care field could use a lot of improvement.


-dex

originally posted by: CB328
What about the hundreds of kids killed by playing with guns every year?

Statistically, very few kids are killed 'playing with guns' in this country every year. According to the CDC, the total number of accidental deaths for ages 0-17 in 2013 was 94 (and should anyone think that's an outlier, the average for the period of 2009-2013 was 91).

To put this in context, consider the following accidental death statistics for the same age group in the same year:

Accidental pedestrian death: 514
'Pedal cyclist' fatalities: 94
All vehicle accidents: 2321 (includes the two preceding numbers)
Accidental drowning: 755
And maybe the most telling one is the 'natural/environmental' category, which gives a total of 97.

Again, I'm only trying to add some context here. When you have 70+ million people in that age group, any particular activity that can possibly be dangerous WILL inevitably result in a number of fatalities.

For every life taken in a mass shooting.

Thousands have been saved by a responsible gun owner.

Many of whom were women.

Don't hate the thing.

Hate the crime.

You show me "12 Times Mass Shootings Were Stopped by Good Guys with Guns" and I'll show you 12 that were started by bad guys with guns.

The “we need more guns to stop gun crime" nonsense is such an obviously flawed and ridiculous argument that it's difficult to know where to start.

It's really very simple... restrict access to guns (like the rest of the rational, civilised world) and you'll have less gun crime. The stats speak for themselves.

I struggle to see why that's so seemingly difficult for such a large percentage of Americans to understand. The rest of the world thinks you're collectively certifiable.

Sort it out.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I guess that in a lot of cases the fact we don't have guns laying around the place stops those spur of the moment killings , it typically takes up to 8 months before you can legally own a gun . The laws are about to get tighter as well , if you are convicted of violent crime or drug offences you have a 5 year wait to own a gun . Any bikie association bars you for life i believe . As for culture , well sure its not normal to go around killing people here thats for sure , but it happens and i would hazard a guess its more of a mental health issue .Still tragedies occur as per the link below .
www.news.com.au...

Perhaps more emphasis on mental health .

Mental health is not the problem nor is the problem guns.
The problem in America is their culture and society..it's all about violence. Violence is glorified. It's portrayed as a normal reaction to get a gun and shoot someone.

It might take at least 8 months to get licensed and finally receive your gun.

BUT..and this is a massive but..

It is very easy and cheaper to get a gun illegally on the street.

Illegal guns are out of control in Australia.

Some are guns stolen from legal owners, some are guns smuggled into Australia, and some are illegally manufactured guns in Australia.

There's a bigger selection of illegal guns available then there is of legally obtainable guns.

The government has no idea exactly how many illegal guns are in circulation.

There's as many guns now in Australia as there was before Port Arthur, more if you include the illegal guns.

Why no massacres like Port Arthur again?

Some believe Port Arthur was a false flag.


But the truth is that we don't have massacres here because our culture and society is different. We aren't indoctrinated into a life and cycle of violence.

Over there they need violence on the streets because they have setup an entire new industry based on incarceration of people. Billions and billions of dollars is created by that system.

Violence is even promoted in children's programs. Think about that for a moment. That's what they are teaching their kids indoctrinating them with..and then we and they wonder why people grow up over there and don't think twice about shooting people that piss them off?


And now we want to bring a mental health element into it? Because drugging them en mass is going to fix things?

a reply to: DexterRiley

My point is that in the near future it's going to be nearly impossible to limit the proliferation of these weapons.

In America it certainly will be. Prepare for the apocalypse.

War zones apart, the rest of the world will manage just fine.

a reply to: neo96

For every life taken in a mass shooting.

Thousands have been saved by a responsible gun owner.

Where did you read this? In the Bible?