Worst US Foreign Policy Blunder Since Vietnam

a reply to: trifecta

That will be WWIII

a reply to: Isurrender73

So everyone screaming that everything the US did was for Oil and is a tyrant

But Russia is now doing the same thing and its ok , they are heroes.......

Wow

ISIS is a by product, they arent doing this for any nobler reason but Oil and natural resources......

Why the hypocrisy?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Isurrender73

So everyone screaming that everything the US did was for Oil and is a tyrant

But Russia is now doing the same thing and its ok , they are heroes.......

Wow

ISIS is a by product, they arent doing this for any nobler reason but Oil and natural resources......

Why the hypocrisy?

The USA committed international war crimes in Libya, Iraq and Syria. What laws have Russia broken? Oh ya none because they were invited.

I am against criminals, I don't care about the oil or the money. No hypocrisy.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Isurrender73

So everyone screaming that everything the US did was for Oil and is a tyrant

But Russia is now doing the same thing and its ok , they are heroes.......

Wow

ISIS is a by product, they arent doing this for any nobler reason but Oil and natural resources......

Why the hypocrisy?

The USA committed international war crimes in Libya, Iraq and Syria. What laws have Russia broken. Oh ya none because they were invited.

I am against criminals, I don't care about the oil or the money. No hypocrisy.

The smart guy in the oval office apparently didn't learn from Bush. After he screwed up Iraq Obama decided to screw up Syria and Libya. So much for that Harvard education. It amazes me that each election we get a worse product, yet people actually believe things will get better with more democrats or republicans. Keep electing those power hungry d and r politicians, at this rate we can have the entire world messed up in two decades.

We are on the verge of a big war unfortunately it seems .

In the Soviet times , father of current president Besar Al Esad ; Hafiz Essad had killed 40000 people over night .

If anyone thinks that Russia will just roll over to Mesopotamia and take it ; they have it coming .

wrong conclusion !
the western policy failed in syria
Russia resetting it by helping there partner.
no winners.. no hero's ...only loosers ..exept the banking and weapon industry's...
thats why ISIS is created and supported by western politics
they make profit of it a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

US presidents are not elected by intelligence .... only how much money they have in there pockets!... a reply to: Reallyfolks

right ...how much people lost there live for US interventions.... I bet millions last 30 years...a reply to: 23432

And Mr. Putin is a diplomatic genius. He is a Bismarck. A Peter the Great. A masterful move by a chess master. Checkmate Barry, you loose. And Lurch, you are the epitome of an Ivy League elitist imbecile. Thus the arrogant sociopaths are defeated by the Great Putin. Bravo Mr. Putin!

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Isurrender73

So everyone screaming that everything the US did was for Oil and is a tyrant

But Russia is now doing the same thing and its ok , they are heroes.......

Wow

ISIS is a by product, they arent doing this for any nobler reason but Oil and natural resources......

Why the hypocrisy?

I would say both countrys are bad as each other.

What pisses me off is the USA pretending it has some sort of moral high ground when its as neck deep in # as Russia is.

a reply to: infolurker

Just curious, if Obama has committed the worst foreign policy blunder since Viet Nam, how do you rate Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003 based on false accusations of involvement with 9-11 and possession of WMDs that resulted in 4,500 American military personnel killed and another 32,000 wounded? (Not counting the 200,000+ that have been diagnosed with PTSD or TBI.)

This ISIS crap that's currently going on in the Middle East is nothing more than blowback from the Iraq war and the subsequent decision to disband the Iraqi military which was Sunni.

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: infolurker

Just curious, if Obama has committed the worst foreign policy blunder since Viet Nam, how do you rate Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003 based on false accusations of involvement with 9-11 and possession of WMDs that resulted in 4,500 American military personnel killed and another 32,000 wounded? (Not counting the 200,000+ that have been diagnosed with PTSD or TBI.)

This ISIS crap that's currently going on in the Middle East is nothing more than blowback from the Iraq war and the subsequent decision to disband the Iraqi military which was Sunni.

My opinion? The Bush / Iraq business was foolish.

The Bush Administration had this idea that we could replicate the "Marshall Plan" of post WW2 in the middle east. Very bad assumption and total failure. Unlike Germany and Japan which were united nations, the ME is full of tribal leadership who will never unite unless forced.

Now, anyone with a brain knew that we were going to take out Saddam Hussein and if you are old enough to remember, a plot was foiled to whack Bush SR so we know Jr. was not going to let that go unchecked. That sealed Saddam's fate as soon as any justification could be done to kill him off.

But back to the Iraq fallacy, There is no such thing as democracy without a people who actually want it. In the case of most of the world, once there is an election, a strongman or party comes to power and never gives it up, using their newfound power to suppress, imprison, gag, or even kill their opponents.


What we should have done in my opinion.... OK, here it is.

Before we laid waste to the Iraq forces we should have reached out to some of the Iraq military leaders. Find one who was willing to be the "Interim" Prime Minister in a New Iraq, Had him move his military forces intact to a specific area. Drop food and have him "wait" until it was time to take command.

Once Saddam was removed, our new Commander would assume a temporary Prime Minister Role with his damned Army to take care of any problems.

Then, split out the country into sectarian regions, let them elect their own Governors for each region (lets call them states) and once the states were secured let them have the option of becoming their own nations or federalizing with each other in a unified Iraq.

I will assume we would have 3 nations instead of one landmass known as Iraq but who knows, either way we would not have this mess.

So, in summary, Find General, Make Him Security Commander, Allow formation of States based on the ethnic / religious differences, Once sovereign states in place, go from there.

a reply to: infolurker

Not a bad plan. As a matter of fact, it sounds quite similar to what Joe Biden proposed during the Bush years and everyone called him crazy. Go figure!

Furthermore, I still believe that's where we'll end up by the time it's all said and done.

Just the same, my point was that this ISIS phenomena is the direct result of the disastrous foreign policy decisions made by Bush Jr. and his cronies, NOT those made by Obama.

On top of that, if the news coming out of the UK today has any truth to it, ISIS may actually be on the verge of collapse and the Russian air strikes are helping to achieve that goal.

Who knows how Russia's involvement will be judged in the future?

The one thing I do know is this, the fact that Obama has extracted our ground troops from that region insures that more Americans will be alive in the future to make that judgement.

ETA: I almost forgot, Bush's policy with regards to Iraq were far worse than "foolish," what they were was "Criminal."

a reply to: Flatfish

Sorry but ISIS is Obama's Administration's Error.

The JV Team created though the complete vacuum created by the Arab Spring, and the pullouts out of the ME allowed this to happen. Trading Dictators for Islamic Extreme Terrorist Organizations was sheer stupidity.

The Bush Administration has quite a bit of blame on the foolishness of Iraq and Afghanistan but the Arab Spring and Toppling of Dictators causing this power vacuum is entirely on this foolish Administration.

Give them credit where credit is due

As for Biden... Biden is a gaffer but he knows his foreign policy. I would LOVE to know his real opinion and what happened here.

Do they even listen to him? I find it hard to believe he would go along with the childish foreign policy of this administration.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Cause there ain't no Kissinger to bail his ass out.
HE chose Kerry...opps.

Yeah, no kidding there.

Toppling Mubarak and Muammar Gaddafi without a continuity of government plan was total idiocy. Worse than Iraq as they simply left a lawless vacuum for Extremist.

Thank God the military rose up in Egypt and threw out the Muslim Brotherhood.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Cause there ain't no Kissinger to bail his ass out.
HE chose Kerry...opps.

Yeah, no kidding there.

Toppling Mubarak and Muammar Gaddafi without a continuity of government plan was total idiocy. Worse than Iraq as they simply left a lawless vacuum for Extremist.

Thank God the military rose up in Egypt and threw out the Muslim Brotherhood.

Wow, the ignorance is strong with this one.

Iraq, which was an illegal and phony war forced onto the world by a corrupt and immoral leader was the worst foreign policy decision - worse than Vietnam.

why? because it has bred the problems in Libya, Syria, Egypt..

It has nothing to do with Obama or his past as an ''community organizer'' this foreign policy disaster was bought to you by Bush and Cheney and Wolfowitz and it has snowballed out of control.

But none of you give a dam, you just want to hate the black man because its cool and you so short sighted you cant remember what happened yesterday (unless the evil black man did it)

you think things are bad now? wait for your next Republican President.. at which point you'll all blame the black guy before him and the argument will go around and and around and around.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Look, I know you are defending "your guy" and are pulling the tired "racism" bull crap again but let's get real. There is not a chance in hell the Bush Adminsitration would EVER let Mubarak get usurped by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Egypt and Libya are all on this administration. This administration sanctioned it, funded it, and supported it.


Obama faces hurdles in aiding Arab Spring countries
www.washingtonpost.com...
In his U.N. speech this week, President Obama vowed to support the democratic transitions in the Arab world with greater trade and investment, “so that freedom is followed by opportunity.”

www.nytimes.com...

The end of Mr. Mubarak’s 30-year rule, Mr. Obama said, “must begin now.” With those words, Mr. Obama upended three decades of American relations with its most stalwart ally in the Arab world, putting the weight of the United States squarely on the side of the Arab street.

It was a risky move by the American president, flying in the face of advice from elders on his staff at the State Department and at the Pentagon, who had spent decades nursing the autocratic — but staunchly pro-American — Egyptian government.

Obama proposes $800 million in aid for "Arab Spring"
www.reuters.com...


Sorry, this is foolish foreign policy. Nothing racist about it.

First of all Russia can not save Assad. Russia can not defeat ISIS. Russia can not defeat the dozens of other factions in Syria. And now that Russia has ticked off the Arab states by hitting non ISIS targets, more advanced weapons and new trained volunteers are going to be showing up. If Russia does not get a deal with the West to form a new unified Syrian government it is going end up being run out of Syria.

And Americas biggest foriegn blunder in its history was the invasion of Iraq in 2003. We have spent over a decade trying to clean up that mess and we will likely be doing so for another decade or two. The West is in for the long game against ISIS and Assad. Russia is tossing a few bombs around and declaring mission complete. Come back to this threat in year and see where Russia stands in the mid east.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Flatfish

Sorry but ISIS is Obama's Administration's Error.

The JV Team created though the complete vacuum created by the Arab Spring, and the pullouts out of the ME allowed this to happen. Trading Dictators for Islamic Extreme Terrorist Organizations was sheer stupidity.

The Bush Administration has quite a bit of blame on the foolishness of Iraq and Afghanistan but the Arab Spring and Toppling of Dictators causing this power vacuum is entirely on this foolish Administration.

What are you saying exactly?

Are you saying that we should use our military might to support dictators around the world who are threatened with overthrow by their own people?

If I'm not mistaken, that's exactly what we did with Iran and the Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and how did that work out?

While I do realize that many people love to blame the President for everything from Ebola to holes in their one-ply toilet tissue, you're a fool if you think Obama created this mess.