Changing the Debate on Guns

NOT a mental health issue?

It's a lot of things... and it is also a mental health issue.
These kids were all damaged emotionally and mentally over a period of time where they were most vulnerable...

If you don't think that society had some part of molding that, I'm afraid you are in the dark.
I would never wish the difficulties of any mental illness on anybody. But downplaying it yourself, won't win you over any supporters of your view, when it sounds like it a view from somebody who has maybe never dealt with it in their lives.

Tougher gun laws.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
The Japanese Nation joined the AXIS powers/jumped onto that bandwagon (the existing aggression world domination pact the German Nation created). This is far more serious than random young cry baby males operating, acting out small terrorist actions because they feel disenfranchised for some reason. The British (French, Dutch, Spanish) fleets have not acted as 'overlord' sea faring aggressive colonizing forces for many years (the spice islands are safe).

I'm talking about social aggression today. The Japanese were completely broken as an aggressive nation at the end of WWII. In the nature of this topic I'm talking about social aggressiveness, Americans are more aggressive than Brits and Brits are more aggressive than Japanese, period. The Japanese might do the same looking at you as you seem to do to the US, saying what is wrong with you? Why are you so violent?

a reply to: Xtrozero
That is a very good question. It may be the result of the disparity between the very wealthy (privileged) and the poor. It might be because of an education system that is failing (bad parenting). It might be some children are victims of "FOMO" caused by social media isolating those most at risk; (you don't have 1000s of friends and "likes" on facebook) "Fear Of Missing Out" (everyone seems to have a life but me). There is a natural process called 'socialization' that is lacking here within the upbringing of the young.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Xtrozero
That is a very good question. It may be the result of the disparity between the very wealthy (privileged) and the poor. It might be because of an education system that is failing (bad parenting). It might be some children are victims of "FOMO" caused by social media isolating those most at risk; (you don't have 1000s of friends and "likes" on facebook) "Fear Of Missing Out" (everyone seems to have a life but me). There is a natural process called 'socialization' that is lacking here within the upbringing of the young.

I think in general, Americans are a more aggressive society, any of the woes we suffer from just magnifies that to a point.

A major factor in these shootings is that we have a mentally ill society being bombarded by mind altering images and messages of a new religion. The four pillars of this new religion are Fame, Lust, Greed and Death.

The average American sees over 200,000 acts of violence and 16,000 murders on television by the time they turn 18 years old. Television, music, magazines and the internet are bombarding our children with the images of and concepts of sex, to the point that toddlers are dressed up as sexual objects and paraded around in pageants. Our media, schools and parents push kids to be successful in order to make money, with the ultimate goal of extreme wealth so they can buy all the latest fashions and big ticket luxury items. But the biggest influence is celebrities being famous for having sex on camera; talking/singing/acting about sex, wealth and violence; parents constantly showing admiration for and mimicing celebrities and unintentionally showing their own children that nothing is more important than celebrities and the messages they spew across the digital plane.

Then these "outsider" kids eventually come to the realization they've been lied to their entire lives, that their parents spend more time watching celebrities, playing with expensive toys, trying to be sexually appealing to the world and obsessing about money than they spend talking to and teaching their children. These kids see all this and feel hopelessness and despair because they will never be rich celebrities having meaningless sex with supermodels and thus are failures, so they turn to the last pillar of worship that won't let them down and they will get their 15 minutes of fame. Fight Club was more relevant to modern society than most realize.

Until we have a fundament societal shift toward spiritual growth (note, not religious), glorification of acts of kindness, love, the arts and science, we will continue to devolve into a society of baser animal instincts and one of those is violence.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Xtrozero
That is a very good question. It may be the result of the disparity between the very wealthy (privileged) and the poor. It might be because of an education system that is failing (bad parenting). It might be some children are victims of "FOMO" caused by social media isolating those most at risk; (you don't have 1000s of friends and "likes" on facebook) "Fear Of Missing Out" (everyone seems to have a life but me). There is a natural process called 'socialization' that is lacking here within the upbringing of the young.

I think in general, Americans are a more aggressive society, any of the woes we suffer from just magnifies that to a point.

You mean because we don't have an "Iron fisted dictator" in charge keeping us in check; (don't live in fear) that the least infraction of law will land us in a holding cell to be exterminated as 'an enemy of the people/regime'.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

You mean because we don't have an "Iron fisted dictator" in charge keeping us in check; (don't live in fear) that the least infraction of law will land us in a holding cell to be exterminated as 'an enemy of the people/regime'.

Yep pretty much.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Any chance you will volunteer your services (as a nicer kinder benevolent sort of dictator)? One that is if anything 'Copasetic'.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Xtrozero
Any chance you will volunteer your services (as a nicer kinder benevolent sort of dictator)? One that is if anything 'Copasetic'.

Not me, I been fighting America's war none stop since the early 80s, so I do not think I would make a very good "kinder benevolent dictator" hehe

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Xtrozero
Any chance you will volunteer your services (as a nicer kinder benevolent sort of dictator)? One that is if anything 'Copasetic'.

i

Not me, I been fighting America's war none stop since the early 80s, so I do not think I would make a very good "kinder benevolent dictator" hehe

We could have a posse called "The Copasetic Dragons" (a kinder form of dictatorship). NO?

a reply to: jaws1975

"don't black lives matter"?

Really, you're pulling out the race card this early?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well...

The fact is that they ARE NOT young WHITE males. The media wants you to believe this. The shooter this week was not a WHITE male. Look at the pictures he was more likely Hispanic or mixed.

And you need to look at the news from Chicago. Black on Black shootings that number in the HUNDREDS killed this year along. heyjackass.com...


Year To Date
Shot & Killed: 351
Shot & Wounded: 1990
Total Shot: 2341
Total Homicides: 399

2341 Shot this year alone in one city. Make's the little thing in Oregon look like nothing.

Why does this not get more news and spotlight from Obama and the other liberals?

Lets look at this:

Chicago already has some of the strongest gun laws in force in the US.
- No gun stores at all, they were Illegal until 2014, but the new law makes it so hard to open one that...
- Ban on Magazines
- Ban on "assault" rifles. (By the way there is not such thing as an assault rifle. Made up term by liberals.)
- Ban on Ammo
- Must have ID issued by State Police to buy ANY firearm.
- Concealed Carry is something of a jumble between state and local laws.

So why not show this city to the world? 2341 shot this year alone. In a city with this much gun control, only the criminals have any major access to guns. Total FAIL of all the gun controls ideas put forth by liberals. This is the major reason that they don't want you to look at Chicago. The fact that it is black on black is another reason.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: VoidHawk

You and I seldom, if ever, agree.

But...

Miracles do happen. I couldn't agree more, if I wanted to.

Children should be allowed to be children. To learn from their successes, and their mistakes.

Skinned knees teach more than a thousand trophies for just showin' up.

Oh my! This thread has caused a lot of.......agreement!

My father was a mechanic all his life so from the age of about 4 I had access to a workshop full of tools. To this day (50 + years later) I remember the sore thumbs that got bashed with the hammer, the near miss with an electric drill, burning my hands when playing with the potbelly stove that lurked in the corner, playing with a pair of molegrips that some how attached themselves to my leg!

Learning from experience, you just cant beat it.

The problem I frequently have with "discussions", is we never un-pack the logical fallacies that fly back and forth on this issue.

For most Americans... everything they know about guns, and the people who own them, comes from the media.

Add to that, the inability for most anti-gun folks, and most pro-gun folks... to challenge the BS that both sides put out. One thing is certain... gun ownership is a right... not a privilege... and this is already settled law by the SCOTUS.

EVERY firearm purchased, INCLUDING guns purchased at Gun Shows, requires an FBI background check, before the gun may be paid for and taken from the point of sale. Thus far, purchases between private individuals are unregulated, and there is nothing to gain from regulating them, because they are such a minuscule percent of sales... and sellers of illegal guns (weapons acquired through theft, or other illegal means), will NEVER be regulated... any more than a thug will commit strong arm robbery, then stroll down to the police station to surrender and give their confession.

BUT... here is the biggest logical fallacy of all... in plain site... it's not a political argument... it is based in fact and logic:

If the penalties for MURDER are insufficient to prevent a kook, whether insane or with an agenda, from shooting up a "gun free" zone, than what will additional laws do? The biggest mass killings in America by individuals, were done with gasoline.

This issue has NOTHING to do with gun laws... and everything to do with a deeper soul sickness in our nation.

It all comes down to the combination of mental illness you guys talk about, and the irresponsible media we have today. Just look at the last 3 mass shootings Charleston- mentally unstable kid can't tell the difference in propagandized media and real news loses his head. The news guy here in VA, mentally unstable, sees slights against himself as racism fed by media, loses his mind. Now this kid, not all the facts are out, but obviously mentally unstable, and blames religion for something, loses it.

All 3 with gripes that just happen to be the most talked about topics on the news lately, we need to get a handle on the mental issues, AND we need some responsibility back in the media, not just fear mongering and propaganda, it's hard enough for the sane people to figure out the real story (just look at this website) this is all just a byproduct of what we've turned society into a this point.

Oh, great points. The thought police. Why didn't anyone else ever think of that? I guess it's because people think too critically when they're not emotionally broken down.

If they can't take the 2nd Amendment (yet) they can try to take the rest of them. The 4th already seems to be pretty much gone. They're working hard on the 1st right now. Obamacare violates the 13th (Involuntary servitude) so that one's out the door (Has been for a long time, however so...)

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


I have to agree with this.
The mass shootings always have two things in common, depression drugs and gun free zones.

You do realize 1/10 people in this country are on those drugs, right? If the drugs were causing people to snap we'd be seeing many more mass shootings.

And when you have so many people on those drugs, or who were recently on them -- its no surprise you're going to find these shooters are on them.

People don't buy guns, ammo, and plan a mass shooting in five minutes. If the drugs were causing people to "snap" they would have had warning signs and probably discontinued the medication or gone back to a doctor. I know that some of these drugs can cause "intrusive thoughts" which can be violent and disturbing -- but they don't last/linger long enough for someone to gather weapons/ammo and plan a shooting.

a reply to: MystikMushroom
Just as lots of folks can take penicillin without negative side effects, so with all pharmaceutical formulas. Just as lots of folks can take penicillin for years only to suddenly find themselves "allergic" and suffering a horrible reaction to a single dose, so it is with all pharmaceutical formulas.
It is because no two human bodies are identical nor is the chemical composition of the body identical from one hour to the next depending on what has been ingested, inhaled or applied.
SSRI drugs act in the brain to inhibit the uptake of neurotransmitters. Think about that effect for just one minute.

These drugs interfere with normal signals in the brain. In a brain already compromised by earlier chemical absorption and/or trauma to the brain---messing with the way signals are sent might not always work out as planned. That's the reason the FDA forced the companies to admit that these drugs cause ideation of homicidal or suicidal actions. If you want to see the results of a giant experiment with these drugs take a look at the military today and the incidence of violence and suicide rate among vets returning from the front after being on these drugs for months. Look at the rates before the SSRIs were given, and the rates since this has become protocol.

The only questions left to those who are honestly looking for answers are of whether this brain damage is multi-generational---that is to say whether the mother's consumption of substances is a factor in the reactions to these chemical cocktails by the offspring. I know of three people who are currently doing studies on this very issue and at least two more who are attempting to get permission to study at veteran's hospitals.
How many of these people who are turned violent by legal drugs were exposed to that same drug in the womb?
How many of these people who are turned violent by legal drugs were exposed to those drugs as a very young child?
How many of these violent people have un-diagnosed brain trauma prior to taking these drugs?
Those are just a few of the factors being studied. Until those questions and many more factors are fully considered, your arguments in favor of "Better chemistry for a better life" is just a commercial for Chemical/Pharmaceutical Industry.

I believe more studies need to be done on the effects of antidepressants i believe they are being given to many people that they never should be.

I was given antidepressants for pain(fibromyalgia and small fiber polyneuropathy) and can tell you even in very low dosages they are mind altering.
First they did nothing for pain.

Doctors love them because they cause people to question there treatments less or cause the people to go find another doctor.

This was seen in fibromyalgia for many years as people not getting better on antidepressants would not come back for treatment and the doctors would claim they got better BECAUSE THEY never returned.

One big problem is that antidepressants suppress the body making serotonin and when after years of being on antidepressants you need higher dosages.
Then if you go off antidepressant you are severely depressed and may become suicidal or homicidal.
This gives the drug industry a medication that many will have to take life long.
antidepressant have become the opioid of the depressed.

then you have to add many of the mentally ill picked up off the street are given antidepressants while committed to a mental hospital. then after release they are given 30 or 60 day supply and kicked out on the street without any way to get more antidepressants.
This causes many of them to turn to illegal street drugs like meth. opioids or other street drugs that raise serotonin.

This makes antidepressant a gateway drug for illegal drugs.