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Changing the Debate on Guns

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posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero


It seems you want to focus on the how and not the why most of the times though. Nothing stops a person from getting in a big truck in the UK and driving down a busy sidewalk at lunch time at 100 kmh, and if this guy decided to do the same during class change he most likely would have been more successful than he was with a gun.


??????

I thought I already made it clear I not talking about gun control and dont think it would work and is not a WHY.

Yeah someone could get a truck and drive it into crowd.... thats still a how not a why.

Anyway our problems is kids running off to join ISIS or getting blind drunk and starting a knife fight. And there is a topic to discuss as does that trend have a relation to your mas shooters? Because it seems to share a theme of disillusioned young adults.




posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: neo96

If only.

Unfortunately we live in a world of me me me now and the only thing that matters to the youth of today is if they got a like on their Facebook page.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

As this country has become more secular, and homes have become broken with single parenting.


More like kids raising kids...



Two parent families, and balanced up a bringing.


My kids are lucky that we are basically a 1950s family, in mom doesn't need to work, so her full attention is the family. My 15 year old HS football team lost two games so 8 kids quit this week... to me this speak volumes as to the level of weakness our kids have achieve, and it is not their fought. Does this lead to a kid that gets turned down at two job interviews later in life then goes on a murder suicide rampage?



edit on 3-10-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: jaws1975

Indeed there are many agendas. ...and many are brought into these sorts of threads.

That's why we have to post on the topic brought up in the OP.

This is a topic that is, well, difficult for most of us to wrap our minds around. Most of us are of sound mind, and are only horrified by the event.

Because of that, we want to find out why it happened. But all too often it comes down to trying to find something to blame... ...and it's easiest to blame the one common thing in all of this. Guns. Then emotions come into play. I know, I've been there. I let my emotion rule the keyboard, and viola, a fight ensues. We've all seen it. We've all done it.

Mea culpa.

The only way this is going to be fixed, if it's even possible, is to put our emotions into the proverbial lock box...and post with our minds, not our hearts.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: neo96

You aren't wrong.

But that's not the only answer, and you're smart enough to know that.

My niece is from a single parent home. She's was an honor roll student, national merit scholar, etc...

My sister did a bang up job raising her, with a little help around the edges from me.

A strong family unit would, indeed, go along way towards helping many problems...in that you are spot on.

But that's only part of the solution. There is something else in play here that needs identifying, and I'll freely admit, I don't have a clue what it is.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I don't think mental illness is the problem I think its more of a social problem that there are many young men who feel so isolated and disillusioned that they commit these horrible and evil crimes.

I think if we just dismiss it as a mental health problem we are not fixing it, we need to look deeper and find it why they feel the way they do and what can be done with parents, teachers, the police and their peers to highlight people at risk of this and to help them before they do these horrible things.

I


I'm sorry, but with all due respect saying this isn't a mental illness problem is just the height of ignorance.
The failure of impulse control is the reason these people act in this manner. Impulse control is centered in the brain and lack of control happens when brain pathways are compromised. That is mental illness.
What causes the brain pathways to be compromised? Chemicals in the brain and/or brain injury.

I know that there are a goodly number of shills here for BigPharma who are in full denial of these facts, pointing out the huge numbers of people who are "helped" by these chemicals but it only takes a tiny percentage of failures to produce what we are seeing.
When I put on my tinfoil hat and add in mind control experiments to the chemical cocktails being administered by BigPHarma and food/water additives----only God can know what the reactions of the brain will be. The white-coated demi-gods can only guess and pretend to know---and yet we put them in charge.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: seagull

Well said and I agree, I guess being on this site for a while now posts from certain posters seem like a honeypot to me. I am all for an honest conversation that could lead to fewer of these tragedies.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: seagull




But that's only part of the solution. There is something else in play here that needs identifying, and I'll freely admit, I don't have a clue what it is.


What people need to accept that society will never be perfect. It just will never be.

The only thing any of us can do is hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

That is ALL any of us can do.
edit on 3-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
Anyway our problems is kids running off to join ISIS or getting blind drunk and starting a knife fight. And there is a topic to discuss as does that trend have a relation to your mas shooters? Because it seems to share a theme of disillusioned young adults.


Two problems in America...

1. Dis-functional families: Kids never get a chance, drop out of school and either become completely dis-functional themselves perpetuating the cycle, or join a gang, replacing that for family. Young kids in gangs are lookouts and drug holders, easy money for them as their moral compass is driven by gang life. As they get older they take on the soldier role as we see that gang violence accounts for much of those 14,000 gun deaths per year.

2. Care-Bear families: Kids never do wrong, are always a winner, really do not know the difference between right or wrong as parents never differentiate since that may mean their kid is NOT always a winner. They can't handle real life failures and are over prescribed with all kinds of drugs. All this perpetuates the loner scenario as the person one day realizes the world is not all Care-Bears. The drugs do more harm than good and the kid one day decides to end it all as he also wants to takeout all those who turned him into a loser...



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

You nail it, in America our freedoms ensure that our children can be whatever they want because is their god given right and nobody can tell others how to raise their children.

This motto is killing families and creating the future we get to live today and is not going to get any better.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:54 PM
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Why cant people just take responsibility for there actions, all i see as usual is people blaming everything under the sun but the person who acted out.

All the psychos habe so much in common, we live in a sick society and we keep on digging our own graves then hide our heads in the sand pretending its someone else fault.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Why cant people just take responsibility for there actions, all i see as usual is people blaming everything under the sun but the person who acted out.


People are educated by our system and the government that personal responsibility is not needed.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: dukeofjive696969

The meathead in Oregon did take "responsibility" didn't he.

He took it by shooting and he took it by dying for his cause.

I think he was an anti-Christian suicide killer.




posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Why cant people just take responsibility for there actions, all i see as usual is people blaming everything under the sun but the person who acted out.


People are educated by our system and the government that personal responsibility is not needed.




A society full of victims looking to push the blame on everyone but the entity that made them a victim?



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

What people need to accept that society will never be perfect. It just will never be.

The only thing any of us can do is hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

That is ALL any of us can do.


All we can do is mitigate risk since risk can never be zero. We can lower all speed limits to 5 MPH and there will still be deaths. I mitigate risk by not living in places like Chicago....



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963

A society full of victims looking to push the blame on everyone but the entity that made them a victim?


A rather big difference from the Greatest Generation isn't it. It is a shame we have gone from achievers to blamers...



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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I think I have to agree with those who point out that boys are really discouraged from being boys anymore and also that we're not allowed to fail anymore. When I was young, most of us boys played in some sort of sport or at least we would play football or something outside of an organized sport. Not only was it fun, but it also allowed us to release our natural testosterone fuelled agression in the form of real exercise. And when we lost, we weren't pampered or given a trophy - we just would practice that much harder so maybe next time we could win.

Losing and failing used to be a big part of growing up and developing one's character. You were forced to learn and grow from your failures. You had to deal with it instead of being told how unfair it was and how special you were. We also knew that we were no more special than anyone else. We would of course try to be better at whatever than others, but if we weren't the best or the most noticed - so what. We dealt with it.

I think that is part of the problem - that people these days don't know how to deal with failure because they are told that it isn't their fault... so maybe when they become what they perceive as failures at life, they feel the need to "get even" with those who have overcome their failures and are being relatively successful.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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I really don't think people want to have an honest discussion about what is going on in America.

Until people realize just exactly what the problems are.

Maybe its that human life has become so devalued we have disingenuous conversations that can be summed up as selective outrage.

The number one killer of people isn't by the end of a barrel of a gun. No people that killer hides behind womens skirts.

And shouts, 'It's my right to choose.'

When people are actually ready for a REAL conversation.

By all means let's have it and change the nature of the gun debate.
edit on 3-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Well, I am working on something about what we truly are versus what society has demanded us to be. As human beings, we have allowed ourselves to be domesticated by too many laws, while trying to insist we are better than the primal instincts we inherited from our births. Those in power prey upon those who not only give up their freedom of protection, but their freedom to be free.

By pretending we are what we are not, is something else that needs to be addressed in this debate on gun control?



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: neo96

I really really dont like abortion , Not unless its for actual medical reasons.

But thats a separate issue with diffrent causes.




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