Changing the Debate on Guns

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: crazyewok

Hold responsible who ever sold or allowed access to the firearms that allowed these kids to kick off?

Sounds like your suggesting gun laws here, is it only ok to be off topic when it's your own posts?

So your think it ok to sell firearms to people under the legal age or who are on a blacklist?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Mate, I agree with your premise here, indeed it is not about gun ownership as much as it is about a very select partition of society that executes such acts.

That is the elephant in the room when you actually study that demographic and realize they constitute more than just this statistic.

The US military, indeed all militaries, actively recruit this same demographic, Hollywood is geared towards this demographic, as does grand theft auto, Apple, Monsanto and Johnson & Johnson et al.

This is not coincidence.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: crazyewok

You Americans , especially of the neocon variety like to preach to us what our rights should be so whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Neocon eh.

Not the one telling you what rights you have now am i ?

And Im not telling you either.

Where have I mentioned on this thread on taking your guns away? I haven't.


Honestly talk about paranoia.

a reply to: crazyewok

I don't want to go off topic, so sorry I can't answer that question.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: crazyewok

Hold responsible who ever sold or allowed access to the firearms that allowed these kids to kick off?

Sounds like your suggesting gun laws here, is it only ok to be off topic when it's your own posts?

Yes it's as common as him saying derp derp when he doesn't know anything.

see you missed the point of the OP too.


Not surprised from you to be honest.

Typical knee jerk crew here to be honest.

originally posted by: crazyewok

Crazyewok,

You didn't answer my question... Do the lack of guns prevent mass murder in the UK?

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: crazyewok

I don't want to go off topic, so sorry I can't answer that question.

SNIP


Im not talking about your 2nd Amendment.


I'm talking about people facilitating these vermin by allowing illegal access.

a reply to: crazyewok

No one in this thread is trying to make you accountable.

Yeah they are.

And i want my GOD GIVEN Rights to DUE PROCESS.

I wamt my day in court, and FACE my accusers.

I want my 'crime' proven in a court of LAW instead of the kangaroo courts of public opinion.

The second through the tenth extending to the 14th amendment.

GUARANTEE ME this right, and well as every other single gun owner there is.

I WANT MY DAY IN COURT with a jury of my peers.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: crazyewok

Crazyewok,

You didn't answer my question... Do the lack of guns prevent mass murder in the UK?

Yes.

Mostly. There are a hell of a lot rarer anyway.

But that not here or there.

Guns are only the how they do it not the WHY.

Or are you trying to trap me in a gun control debate ? Cause it wont work. Further gun control in the USA is pointless. With 300 million odd guns floating about its pissing in the wind so you wont have me arguing for any gun bans.

a reply to: crazyewok

Im not talking about your 2nd Amendment.

Nobody knows what the hell you are talking about, cause all you are saying is "your off topic" or "GUnz, derp Gunz".

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: crazyewok

No one in this thread is trying to make you accountable.

Yeah they are.

And i want my GOD GIVEN Rights to DUE PROCESS.

I wamt my day in court, and FACE my accusers.

I want my 'crime' proven in a court of LAW instead of the kangaroo courts of public opinion.

The second through the tenth extending to the 14th amendment.

GUARANTEE ME this right, and well as every other single gun owner there is.

I WANT MY DAY IN COURT with a jury of my peers.

Ok now you are getting scary.


Honestly dude..........


Chill. No one on the thread is accusing you of anything.

No one is arguing on this thread to take your guns away.

This is just a discussion on why people are committing mass shootings.


I think you need to take a step back.

a reply to: crazyewok

Didn't miss any point.

Let me make it simple for you this is our problem not yours you can give your opinion all you want but to me and many Americans we don't care what you outsiders have to say about our issues.

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: crazyewok

Im not talking about your 2nd Amendment.

Nobody knows what the hell you are talking about, cause all you are saying is "your off topic" or "GUnz, derp Gunz".

Its called sarcasm.


And my actual posts are quite easy to read.

My point was enforcing the laws on the books that already exist as it seems certain laws are being ignored.

a reply to: crazyewok

Chill. No one on the thread is accusing you of anything.

Yeah they DID right here:

I am from the UK, I do not own a gun, I do believe the second amendment of the US Constitution is important and should be maintained yet at the same time I also believe that more gun regulation is required and the laws changed.

You all need to stop the over reaction.

The premise of the thread is the why of these events. Not the how.

The how is fairly obvious, and unfortunately they were guns. I'm as fervent a supporter of second amendment rights as anyone here, though perhaps a bit quieter about it.

This is a conversation about the why. Why is this happening. It's not the tool. The tool does nothing but facilitate the event, whatever it may be.

Why are these horrific events taking place. Guns aren't the why. Take them off the table.

What are we left with?

Illness. Cause? Let's explore that avenue, shall we? We're all of us fairly intelligent, or we play it on the interwebs...

How about it, folks.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: crazyewok

Didn't miss any point.

Let me make it simple for you this is our problem not yours you can give your opinion all you want but to me and many Americans we don't care what you outsiders have to say about our issues.

Go join a American only forum then?

If you dont like us giving our opinion then ignore these threads.

originally posted by: seagull
You all need to stop the over reaction.

The premise of the thread is the why of these events. Not the how.

The how is fairly obvious, and unfortunately they were guns. I'm as fervent a supporter of second amendment rights as anyone here, though perhaps a bit quieter about it.

This is a conversation about the why. Why is this happening. It's not the tool. The tool does nothing but facilitate the event, whatever it may be.

Why are these horrific events taking place. Guns aren't the why. Take them off the table.

What are we left with?

Illness. Cause? Let's explore that avenue, shall we? We're all of us fairly intelligent, or we play it on the interwebs...

How about it, folks.

Thanks you!


You get it.


Guns are only a how. A tool to allow these easy massacres.

A gun ban would likely end up with these angry young men finding another outlet. The UK has its own problems with angry young men but in a different way.


One interesting point brought out in another thread is future prospects? The wishy washy education and future of minimum wage jobs that dont matter have a effect?

A future with solid career that means something with a structured upbringing and education may mitigate such events.

The fact of the matter is that we can't have a discussion about what the op presented. There are too many agendas at play here, the propaganda is thick and whether you acknowledge it or not all roads lead to new gun legislation. Nobody wants to look at the mental illness angle, or the meds these shooters were on angle, or the parenting angle. All you ever hear in the news or from the politicians is the gun problem. So we can talk about all this other stuff, but not even the op could keep gun laws out of an op that's supposedly not about gun control.

a reply to: seagull

This is a conversation about the why. Why is this happening. I

The reason is because of the breakdown of the family unit, and GOD has become a dirty word.

As this country has become more secular, and homes have become broken with single parenting.

The STATE has replaced that role that two parent homes, and the church use to provide.

Morality comes from the STATE.

The STATE has now become mommy,daddy, and preacher man.

And here is everyone looking to the STATE to make it 'alright' again.

Where it can not, and never will, but make things exponentially worse.

Really want to change the nature of modern society ?

Get back to the roots from whence we came.

Two parent families, and a balanced up bringing.

originally posted by: crazyewok

Guns are only the how they do it not the WHY.

Or are you trying to trap me in a gun control debate ? Cause it wont work. Further gun control in the USA is pointless. With 300 million odd guns floating about its pissing in the wind so you wont have me arguing for any gun bans.

It seems you want to focus on the how and not the why most of the times though. Nothing stops a person from getting in a big truck in the UK and driving down a busy sidewalk at lunch time at 100 kmh, and if this guy decided to do the same during class change he most likely would have been more successful than he was with a gun.

The point that most here to not look at is these are all mostly murder suicide scenarios and so maybe that is the direction of prevention we need to go to reduce this.