Changing the Debate on Guns

originally posted by: queenofswords
So let's look at what we have based on all the ongoing threads pertaining to this subject.

Some think it is because there are too many guns and ready access to them.

Some think it is over prescribing of pharmaceuticals, especially mood-altering ones.

Some think it is social media enabling and hyping everybody up.

Some think it is disappointment in the system, economic woes, and a sense of hopelessness.

Some think it is a certain personality type unable to handle bullying, failure, and social awkwardness.

Some think it is an agenda and the agenda makers are using technology and/or cognitive and behavioral methods to manipulate targeted individuals to carry out the agenda.

Any more?

I am adding another one based on grandmakdw's post:

Extreme sick prejudice against a religion, a race, a class of people, or any other perceived target of bigotry.

a reply to: queenofswords

And the extreme division in this country has not helped that one either.

a reply to: ketsuko


Now Johnny, you just sit there quietly and color between the lines....or we drug you...

Boys need an outlet for aggression, be it sports or just screwing around on the monkey bars. That has been taken away from them with obvious results.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: queenofswords

And the extreme division in this country has not helped that one either.

And, again, that is agenda-driven. One look at the source of the division -- politics + media -- makes you wonder if they aren't 'creating' motive.

It's odd, I am an atheist and I live in a diverse neighborhood and have several black people and Christians who are important in my life. In my real life -- nothing has changed. I'm still friendly with my neighbors, same as always. I'm still close with my diverse family and friends.

There's no building division. The ugly division seems like it's being created where there once was a small divide.

For example, racism was practically a settled matter when I was young. We all knew it existed but it was something most people were trying to move past. Now we are mired in it.

a reply to: NowWhat

a reply to: neo96

Congratulations two more people that missed the point of this thread that NEVER was about gun control.

It about the WHY not the how.

Guns are only the how which is NOT the topic.

But I guess you never read the OP and just went to the knee jerk " GUNz! Dont take my GuNz derp derp derp! Star me!!!!!!!!"

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

With that said then and if the option of stricter gun laws in the US is not a viable option then surely the debate should move from pro-gun vs anti-gun to a debate seeking to find out why these young men are acting the way they do. We should be investing in training for identifying young men at risk, educating parents, promoting fuller inclusion of all students at schools and collages having more teacher involvement and dare I say it police involvement. There may even be wider cultural influences over these young men that glorify violence or justify their actions as somehow being the “right” or “only” thing to do.

Boy it is a thin line between 1984 "Thought Police" and truly identifying someone and restricting them. One other thing with all this is with all the prior behaviors you suggested and others, none really point towards mass shooting as an outcome. I also think another aspect to all this is the parent are clueless to the mental state of their kids. Maybe they are too busy working, or doing their own thing to put the time and effort in to mentor their own children.

The two big drivers in gun deaths is suicide and gang related so while just one city like Detroit logs in 350+ gun deaths per year that gets little attention as does one mass shooting of 10. So there is a lot going on here other than loners wanting to make a point.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Here's the thing: Keep bringing it up and it won't die. There are people who make very good livings off of not letting it die.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

First of all,

Thank you for not attacking our culture and it's aspect of affording the right to own guns. It is highly unusual for someone who was not born knowing that they have the right to own a gun (should they desire so) to not attack our culture, let alone attempt to understand what it is like to be raised understanding your rights to own a gun.

The simple, pure matter of fact is that guns do not kill. It is, as you've hit on, people that kill. And their reasons are usually common.

Personally, I believe we are seeing two things. Hopelessness/disillusionment and illness.

I feel that the hopelessness/disillusionment is a direct development of our society. It's causes are myriad. Whether it be impoverishment, bullying, or outright anger at the society these people find themselves in.

Illness, yes...mental illness.


Now, I do also happen to think that there is another commonality. And that is, I do believe it is possible if not probable that many of these incidents are being groomed. Whether it be by government alphabet organizations or others..... I do think it is likely.

Many here are quick to jump on the "was the shooter on any SSRI's?" bandwagon. However, I do not believe that it is the SSRI itself that just randomly picks people and turns them into inhumane killers. Manytimes, it is a regular physician who simply increases and increases the dose to unreasonable levels. But, I also believe, given that many SSRI's have a known disassociative effect at high doses....that this could very well be being done intentionally.

Quite often, if you look at any one of these perpetrators, you can find connections to the military...or directly to DARPA programs.


I know, I know. Few will agree.

Maybe one solution is to make the parents responsible for Children that go on ramapges?

Maybe if parents faced a good 20 years behind bars they might take more time bringing up there kids and look after them than letting them turn into psycos?

a reply to: queenofswords

a reply to: Xtrozero


so your opinions ares there is no problem with mass shootings and to ignore the issue ?

originally posted by: crazyewok
Maybe one solution is to make the parents responsible for Children that go on ramapges?

Maybe if parents faced a good 20 years behind bars they might take more time bringing up there kids and look after them than letting them turn into psycos?

Yeah. Um, no. Not so much.

Sure, there are cases where the parents either knew, or simply didn't care enough to be involved to know.

But, there are those cases...where nobody would know. Where it is a deeply internalized thing. Where it is a secret side of themselves that only shows once the damage has been done.

Therefore, it is not unilaterally fair or right to say the parents are responsible.

a reply to: crazyewok

I do believe the second amendment of the US Constitution is important and should be maintained yet at the same time I also believe that more gun regulation is required and the laws changed.

You know this was in the op right?

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: crazyewok

I do believe the second amendment of the US Constitution is important and should be maintained yet at the same time I also believe that more gun regulation is required and the laws changed.

You know this was in the op right?

And that was not even the point or main focus of the OP!


But let ignore the main point and go to the knee jerk.....

OMGZ TheYZ GoNNa TaKEZ MY GUNz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a reply to: crazyewok

Uh they were made part of the topic.

I am from the UK, I do not own a gun, I do believe the second amendment of the US Constitution is important and should be maintained yet at the same time I also believe that more gun regulation is required and the laws changed.

There is no way someone would let that slide.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: queenofswords

a reply to: Xtrozero


so your opinions ares there is no problem with mass shootings and to ignore the issue ?

The issue that Mercer was born in the UK?

It sure has been interesting seeing so many UK members posting about 'American' issues.

And somehow won't even acknowledge where Mercer came from.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: crazyewok

Uh they were made part of the topic.

I am from the UK, I do not own a gun, I do believe the second amendment of the US Constitution is important and should be maintained yet at the same time I also believe that more gun regulation is required and the laws changed.

There is no way someone would let that slide.

Notice the fact that he is from the UK...... that means he has zero power to take your precious little guns.
Last time I checked the USA is a different country to the UK.

So that part of the OP is irrelevant.


Why not focus on the core part of the topic?

Rather than waste time on your usual insecure ranting of "O KnoWz ObAMAZ GonnAZ TaKE MYz GUnZ !!!11!!1" as there enough topic son that and you have made you opinion on the matter quite clear.

originally posted by: neo96


The issue that Mercer was born in the UK?

I

And somehow won't even acknowledge where Mercer came from.

There are plenty of people named Mercer, what Mercer do you refer too?

originally posted by: neo96
It sure has been interesting seeing so many UK members posting about 'American' issues.

I think we have been through this before, you have a short memory, lets go through this in simple easy to understand terms ok?

ATS IS A INTERNATIONAL FORUM


Dont like us commenting on US issues? Find a US only forum.

originally posted by: queenofswords
So let's look at what we have based on all the ongoing threads pertaining to this subject.

Some think it is because there are too many guns and ready access to them.

Some think it is over prescribing of pharmaceuticals, especially mood-altering ones.

Some think it is social media enabling and hyping everybody up.

Some think it is disappointment in the system, economic woes, and a sense of hopelessness.

Some think it is a certain personality type unable to handle bullying, failure, and social awkwardness.

Some think it is an agenda and the agenda makers are using technology and/or cognitive and behavioral methods to manipulate targeted individuals to carry out the agenda.

Any more?

Excellent list Queen of swords!

Maybe one more, some people are psychopaths.

The gun controllers assume that every criminal is a sociopath.

Research suggests that, “psychopaths are a stable proportion of any population, can be from any segment of society, may constitute a distinct taxonomical class forged by frequency-dependent natural selection, and that the muting of the social emotions is the proximate mechanism that enables psychopaths to pursue their self-centered goals without felling the pangs of guilt.

Sociopaths are more the products of adverse environmental experiences that affect autonomic nervous system and neurological development that may lead to physiological responses similar to those of psychopaths. Antisocial personality disorder is a legal/clinical label that may be applied to both psychopaths and sociopaths” (Walsh & Wu, 2008).
blogs.psychcentral.com...

a reply to: crazyewok

No it isn't irrelevant.

Because CRAZY got imported from the UK.


This guy:

Oregon shooting suspect Chris Harper-Mercer 'born in UK'

Ya know the REASON everyone is talking about how 'nutty' Americans are.

a reply to: crazyewok

ATS IS A INTERNATIONAL FORUM

I hate to bust that bubble.

But the US CONSTITUTION isn't up for international debate.