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Confirmed: Police confiscated cell phones from Umpqua students

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posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: EvilBat
a reply to: tanka418
Over reacted when people are saying false flag hoax ..that is concerns? I think not I have every right to flip someone off if they are not willing to listen. All these threads and yet the same people saying the same things not listening to people who are there.



Okay...kid, put your emotions down and take a deep breath. Nobody said "hoax", true some said "false flag" but, it would appear that is not the case.

Yes...absolutely you are over reacting!




Yes people were searched.
Yes cars were searched, people were bussed back the next day to pick them up.

The illegal search , people said go ahead search because either they had nothing to hide , and they wanted to make sure there were no devices that could go off. Cell phones given up because what if it was used to detonate something. Not all cells were kept some were given back right away when there was no suspicious numbers as numbers put in with no name.
Yes keys were taken so they can get into the cars with permission. Yes some people for got to take the house keys off the key ring. Rides were given back and forth. If anyone did not want there stuff searched they would have spoken up and there would have been a warrant.
Some students even go their car back with in minutes and they started giving rides to help out.


Illegal act? did I help search no but only illegal act I saw that day was murder.


You very seriously should check out the 4th amendment to the Constitution, and title 18 U.S. Code paragraph 242.

What the police were doing was a direct violation of both! AND, If by chance you agree with the police, then you do not deserve the freedoms you take for granted...perhaps you would like the environment in North Korea better...where such thing are expected.

As it stands...each of the police officers involved should be arrested for their violations, and put on trial, and of course forbidden to work in law enforcement for the rest of their lives...they are enemies of the Constitution, and should be treated as such!

Now before anyone goes ballistic on me...I want the same level of safety as anyone else...I just demand that they do it right, and legal! Is that asking too much? apparently it is.

Finally, NO!!! the actions of the police were also illegal...there is an old saying; "two wrongs do not make a right." You would do well to understand this! If I had been there...I'd be suing for enough to bankrupt that jurisdiction...they NEED it!




posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: tanka418

Okay...kid, put your emotions down and take a deep breath. Nobody said "hoax", true some said "false flag" but, it would appear that is not the case.

Yes...absolutely you are over reacting!



1. I haven't been called kid in almost 40 years
2. read all the threads on this or just this one? Watch all the videos read the comments? People are saying Hoax.
3. Flipping someone off is over reacting and yet your yelling about possible illegal actions buy the police?




You very seriously should check out the 4th amendment to the Constitution, and title 18 U.S. Code paragraph 242.

What the police were doing was a direct violation of both! AND, If by chance you agree with the police, then you do not deserve the freedoms you take for granted...perhaps you would like the environment in North Korea better...where such thing are expected.


So with permission, it is still illegal?
North Korea?
Over react much



As it stands...each of the police officers involved should be arrested for their violations, and put on trial, and of course forbidden to work in law enforcement for the rest of their lives...they are enemies of the Constitution, and should be treated as such!


for doing their job, where do you get off saying they need to be arrested buy doing their job?
Can I search you car? Yes, search move on.
Can I search you car? No, ok we'll get a warrant.
How is that against the law?



Now before anyone goes ballistic on me...I want the same level of safety as anyone else...I just demand that they do it right, and legal! Is that asking too much? apparently it is.

Finally, NO!!! the actions of the police were also illegal...there is an old saying; "two wrongs do not make a right." You would do well to understand this! If I had been there...I'd be suing for enough to bankrupt that jurisdiction...they NEED it!


I notice you answered my question

Would you really sit there and yell put up a fuss minutes after this happened " No you can't search me ! NO you can't search my car with out warrant!" Or would you " Damn go ahead prove you have nothing, and make sure there is nothing else there on campus?"


With


If I had been there...I'd be suing for enough to bankrupt that jurisdiction...they NEED it!


You know whats sad-- this county is one of the poorest in the state and you go on about suing which would not only hurt local Fire Departments / EMT/ Police/ Poor family's getting help -- but you go ahead and do that because you were upset they asked to search your car and if not they would get a warrant to do so.

So you would cause trouble and not help out great thanks for making our jobs harder because you think the government is somehow after you. Instead of helping out with a tragedy you go on a rampage about "Rights"

No, I would say if you were here you would have probably have realized your "freedoms" have nothing to do with what was going on. Your thoughts of "Freedoms" would have ended and you would comply just to make sure you
were safe to go home.


CX

posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

I'd agree with this. The guy could have had an accomplaice, maybe one who lost thier nerve when it came to it. Searching everyone needs to be done.

As for phone confiscation, same again, if there was an accomplaice, either who helped in a small or large way with info, there could be info on phones.

If another student was outside and opened up with a gun after this event, people would be shouting about why weren't they searched.

Quite an extreme comparison, but remember the Iranian Embassy seige back in the 80's....one of the terrorists tried to hide amongst the embassy staff being ushered out by the SAS.

No reason that can't happen at a school shooting.

Now then.....if they get thier phones back with footage erased....then i'd raise an eyebrow.

CX.

edit on 3/10/15 by CX because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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www.nydailynews.com...

The sheriff investigating this is a sandy hook truther.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 01:36 PM
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originally posted by: EvilBat

To reiterate:
You very seriously should check out the 4th amendment to the Constitution, and title 18 U.S. Code paragraph 242.

What the police were doing was a direct violation of both! AND, If by chance you agree with the police, then you do not deserve the freedoms you take for granted...perhaps you would like the environment in North Korea better...where such thing are expected.




for doing their job, where do you get off saying they need to be arrested buy doing their job?
Can I search you car? Yes, search move on.
Can I search you car? No, ok we'll get a warrant.
How is that against the law?



Seriously man, you NEED to acquaint yourself with the Constitution...it supersedes all other bodies of law...


I say arrested because they were not doing their jobs...correctly.

As much as it hurts, as much as the pain of the circumstance is; One simply MUST do everything correctly...fail in this simple requirement, and you are as bad, perhaps worse than the original offence.

In the case of the police; they have sworn an oath to support all laws, not just local, or even regional, but national laws as well; the Constitution is the primary national law. And, it forbids the kinds of actions taken in this circumstance.




I notice you answered my question


lol...I rapidly noticed that you misunderstood virtually everything I've said




You know whats sad-- this county is one of the poorest in the state and you go on about suing which would not only hurt local Fire Departments / EMT/ Police/ Poor family's getting help -- but you go ahead and do that because you were upset they asked to search your car and if not they would get a warrant to do so.

So you would cause trouble and not help out great thanks for making our jobs harder because you think the government is somehow after you. Instead of helping out with a tragedy you go on a rampage about "Rights"

No, I would say if you were here you would have probably have realized your "freedoms" have nothing to do with what was going on. Your thoughts of "Freedoms" would have ended and you would comply just to make sure you
were safe to go home.


No, actually, I would be "upset" because they had the temerity to violate my rights. And, me insisting that things be done right does not in any way make your job harder unless your job is to violate my rights...is that your job? To violate my rights!

And, IF, I said NO! to your request to search...would you really wait for a warrant? What would be your probable cause? Would I be free to go before your warrant arrived? Or, would you treat me like a criminal and arrest me on the spot for "resisting arrest", cause me significant physical and mental injury...just because I stood up for my rights.

Do you know / understand that probability strongly suggests that I will require a surgeon, and an attorney in that order very soon.

And, no, I don't think the government is "after me", nor "out to get me" in any way; that is your misinterpretation, and yours alone.

Tell me; would you condone the "water barding" of a suspect? Even if you knew he had information that would save many lives? I'm betting not! Yet somehow it is okay for the police to detain and search people without probable cause, or due process.

To make matters worse, they deprived people of their property, liberty, and personal security. They in effect "kidnapped" people, and removed them...took their property, and, for all we know may have compromised the data on any data devices. What the police did, as well intentioned as it may have been; was far worse than anything that "shooter" could possible have done...I don't expect you to understand that statement.


Did you read the 4th amendment? Seriously man, everything the police did was prohibited, and thus constitutes a federal crime equal to your sick shooter...the problem is made more serious by the fact that they will get away with it, and try again in the future.



edit on 3-10-2015 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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The problem with trying to respond to this type of event is that the shooter(s?) have a major tactical advantage over you. They have planned the scenario. You are responding to it unprepared. A well organized attack might maximize its casualties with an "ambulance bomb" type plan. You've seen it in movies as a bomb vehicle disguised as a first responder, which infiltrates the scene of an attack. Rather than seeking to maximize the initial casualties, the attackers choose to attack the response instead. Imagine the destruction if they loaded the victims onto the buses without searching them, and one of them was wearing a suicide vest. Now the attack kills the entire busload.

As for the cell phones, that's a tough one. But personally, I would surrender mine. As much as I would love my YouTube channel to blow up, I think the authorities might also want the first look at that video. I mean, they're being paid (by us) to analyze the event. I should probably help them do that.

Now, for everyone who feels the need to swagger around telling us how they would never tolerate such an abuse of their rights...please. You might think enough of yourself to believe that under live fire, you're going to remember your law school training, but unless you were actually at the scene of this shooting, spare us your bravado. These people are in shock. They are going to do anything someone with a blanket and a thermos full of hot chocolate tells them to. Especially if any of them has considered the very real possibility that the guy behind them in line was in league with the shooter.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: tanka418

Yeah, cmon people. If he had accomplices they get sussed out in the ensuing investigation. They will have the bad guys phone and numbers and work it that way. It's not rocket science history.

I guess thats why cattle have 4 legs, more knees to jerk.

Btw, personally, even if I give you permission to violate your oath, ive already lost all respecf for you in the asking.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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I'm posting the 4th and the Code for those who do not know them

a reply to: tanka418
As a citizen of US we read it in social studies
we can argue all day about this
4th Amendment


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


There was probable cause, it was reported at first there was multiple shooters they got one, where are the others what if things that were going to be used to harm others were in the cars.

I know you are not daft. There was reason for search people were ok with this, because they wanted everyone to be safe. If there is permission how is that illegal. Are we sheep now because we want to know there was only one shooter. Making sure there wasn't anything hidden in a car that could explode?

Seriously you tell me out of 100's of people you would be the only one saying no you can't search my stuff? Because it's my right, that right there would give me probable cause to detain you, you could be the second shooter we are looking for.

18 U.S. Code § 242

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.


Show me in this code where an officer of the law who asks permission to search you and or property and you give them permission is against the law. They can ask you can say no. It is not against the law to ask. It is not against the law to go along with the police and let the search happen so everyone knows you and or car what not is not involved.

A mass shooting just happened, there are reports of multiple shooters and you want to play you can't see see in my stuff? Yes that would make the job harder because now we have to go and get a warrant to search your stuff, probable cause? easy you could be involved. Wait for the warrant you bet. You would be sitting in the back of the squad car waiting. I'd also use the can hold for 24 hours maybe longer just because you were being difficult in a time like this. Remember law? The police can detain you with probable cause for up to 24 hours some places it's 48. If it is the weekend you are defiantly in for the whole weekend. Here is a sample link

Heck the State Police is right across the street (99) If I were the law I'd probably bring you there so you wouldn't complain about the sun being to hot in the car. There you would sit for 24 hours waiting to go home. Judge signs the warrant I search you car for anything that could relate to what happened. I might find something and help remove the threat. I might not find anything and you get released , wasting all that time of ours, and yours. Just because you think your rights were violated.

Again I hope it does not happen to you and or in your area where you are involved, because I know, you would think different when if it happened.

Can they Search you bet Link to PDF

If there is PC and there was PC.

If people agreed to a search it is not against the law

If they disagree to a search they can still do a "A warrant-less, non-consensual search " if there is probable cause.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:21 PM
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Hi guys.

So I happen to live in Roseburg, OR and my brother was at UCC at the time of the shooting. I just got off the phone with him about this and he said "No they didn't take phones from people. The police asked students if they had any video that could help, and if they said yes, they were pulled aside."

Hope this clears things up.
edit on 3-10-2015 by ruderalis1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: PocketRevolution




Now the attack kills the entire busload.


By taking car keys is creating this scenario .

Yes your hypothetical scenarios have some merit. But the majority in the USA are single wackos . But even then this mass property confiscation is wrong. And the mass detention is wrong. They were treated like criminals or prisoners of war they are not being treated as free citizens .




These people are in shock. They are going to do anything someone with a blanket and a thermos full of hot chocolate tells them to


And that makes this violation of their rights even worse , people they trust victimizing them again and denying them of their rights. The LOE's take an oath up hold laws and the constitution. And the constitution being supreme. That is taking advantage of a shell shocked victim.

Regardless of the swagger mass search and mass seizures are wrong. Actions like this helped foster the revolution of 1776 . Oh I'm sure the crown justified it by oh there may be tax evaders or there could be criminals hiding in the town or revolutionaries are hiding in this area. Just like to day second shooter some one may have helped someone may have evidence . NO DIFFERENCE Wrong in 1776 wrong in 2015.

What if they find a joint in a car ? Some off color pics ? What are they going to do ? What about all the personal info on the phones are they going to keep a copy of the data ?

I could careless about a video for YouTube but about not having my phone with it has appointments schedules ect,my keys ,my car and no keys. Do I break a window to get in at home call a locksmith to open my door?

May your chains of servitude rest light on your neck.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: ruderalis1

If thats right then a lot of news reports are wrong.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: Lostinthedarkness


MSM cant keep a report straight. The day of the shooting I seen 3 different suspects with 3 different ages... All reported before our sheriff released anything official.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: filosophia

The thing about all these shootings we've had recently involving
the past ten to fifteen yrs. One must first believe humanity can
produce an assimulating number of the type of people who would
do these things. That includes throwing their whole lives away on
a whim. I don't believe it. Further more many people are making the
mistake that it's all about gun control. It isn't. It's about this.
And my point is precluded here.
edit on Rpm100315v25201500000054 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: EvilBat

There was probable cause, it was reported at first there was multiple shooters they got one, where are the others what if things that were going to be used to harm others were in the cars.



I disagree...more like searching someone just because they are there...from all appearance they had circumstance, and few if any facts; therefore they cannot form probable cause.




I know you are not daft.


Was that necessary? Seems rather poor form...


If there is permission how is that illegal. Are we sheep now because we want to know there was only one shooter. Making sure there wasn't anything hidden in a car that could explode?



Wow...the tone of that goes rather well with our previous irrelevant remark. Of course IF permission is given, voluntarily, then all is legal. But, that also means no intimidation as well...most people will simply go along with a group of armed men regardless of what they say, or who they are.



Seriously you tell me out of 100's of people you would be the only one saying no you can't search my stuff? Because it's my right, that right there would give me probable cause to detain you, you could be the second shooter we are looking for.




No, actually it doesn't constitute probable cause. It is thinking like that that leads to another Ferguson, Mo. Police have to resist that kind of knee-jerk thinking, and attempt to apply a little intelligence to their work.

And, in their mass searches did they discover anything?



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Glassbender777
Way to early to jump to any kind of conspiracy like a False flag. Lets learn the entire story first.


The entire story is being manipulated, to fit an agenda.


Perhaps the cell phone videos caught the shooter praising allah and they don't want that out? They want it about guns, not mental illness, religious extremism, or hatred



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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Yeah, I understand, they had to do these search and seizures, just in case the second shooter was among the students... just in case the second shooter/accomplice was among the students and had left incriminating info on their phones despite having time to factory reset it or just delete the pertinent data... just in case the second shooter had weapons or bombs hidden in a car among the students cars even though they presumably would have likely had time to drive away or initialize the secondary attack before police came...

In fact, they should probably just hire a demolition team to demolish the entire campus, just in case the second shooter was hiding in the walls... And drop some bunker buster bombs just in case he dug a hole in the ground, little by little each night. cleverly concealing it and reinforcing with concrete and rebar. And chop down every tree within a 1 mile radius, just in case the second shooter hollowed out a tree and was hiding in it, just waiting for the right moment to begin the secondary attack...


But, if we are going to go down that road of "what ifs" and "just in case", well, then, what if the second shooter was disguised as a cop? What if one of the cops was somehow in on it? Shouldn't the police be searched as well, along with their phones and vehicles... just in case? Or is it only ok unless it inconveniences someone with an official title, as if that precludes them from any wrongdoing? If anything, power and authority corrupts humankind, making them even more susceptible to wrongdoing and anyone weilding power and authority over others needs to be watched even More closely than the average citizen. After all, if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to worry about. Right?
edit on 10/4/2015 by 3n19m470 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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Just to clear up some ambiguity, 'false flag' and 'hoax' are not interchangeable. Hoax infers it didn't happen. False flag OTOH means it did happen, and the actual perpetrators put the blame on someone else, usually for sympathy or a call to arms, (or maybe a political statement that we need more gun control). I personally don't think this was either a false flag or a hoax. It was a tragedy.



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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This is why cops just shoot you! ?
they see You All as the bad guy, terrorist.

the Kids had a second hostage situation.
they cops took them hostage.

ever read the comic judge dredd?
the cops or Judges see every one as
a criminal and No one has any rights at all.

remember the old days when you where
considered innocent until proven guilty
now they can just shoot you...



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

So what agenda would that be, and how is it being manipulated?




Oh, come on. Surely you see the agenda. Even if you want to call it an unfortunate coincidence, you cannot deny that an agenda has shaken out.

The consent of the governed. It is a most precious gift to people who want to make change in how the people are governed.

I have never owned a gun and have no interest in them. I consider myself socially liberal. I even support 'smarter' gun control. But even I can see that consent is growing louder to erode the Second Amendment with some kind of looming legislation. The constant gun debate sure seems to be inevitably leading SOMEWHERE.

Is it all just an unfortunate coincidence? Maybe, but you cannot fault people for noticing it. And you cannot fault people for finding meaning in it when motive is pretty much absent from all of the recent horrific and senseless murders. You can either assign motive yourself -- "He was after the glory," "He was mentally-ill" -- OR you can look at what might have been gained from them and not be afraid to wonder if the real killer(s) are getting away.

Or maybe you can just begrudge people their reasonable opinions. Whatever though. I think it's unfair to expect people to ignore agenda as motive when the President stated, in context of gun legislation, that every time one of these mass gun-murders happens, he's going to talk about how to fix the problem.

I am looking at these mass gun-shootings from a completely non-partisan perspective. The two parties are just two hands controlled by one mind. They have proven it again and again and the writing is on the wall. I put nothing past the minds that control them.




edit on 4-10-2015 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: tanka418

[SNIPPED

I would have happily given my phone and keys to a law enforcement officer if I were in their shoes, any rational human being would. I have nothing to hide, they're going to find a bunch of penis jokes on my phone, and a bunch of empty energy drink cans in my car. They were trying to ensure the safety of the survivors, not take away anybody's rights.

Had they not taken these steps and a bunch more kids died because they just assumed there was only one guy involved, you would most certainly be complaining that the police should have done more to ensure there were no more shooters.

I deal with your type daily. Cops can do no right in your eyes, damned if they do, damned if they don't. [SNIPPED]

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