Where did the innocence go? Mass Shooting question.

I am in my late 40's. I remember my childhood fondly. We didn't have many of the distractions of today, and we didn't have many of the wonders of today either. We had all we needed and enjoyed what we had. One thing we didn't have is mass shootings as schools. We had guns, we had bad people, we had people with mental issues, we had nice people. We even had politicians and separate parties back then.

What has changed in out society to make this level of violence and disregard for human life possible?

What is the catalyst that provoked all this?

Is it so simple as the ease of being famous posthumously? Kill at least 7 people (or whatever the new magic number is) and you will be immortalized forever as (your entire name including middle) for all eternity.

Was it violent video games?

Was it poor parenting?

Was it disregard for mental health problems?

Was it you?

Was it me?

We are becoming numb to it, and that in itself is a problem, but the discussion always seems to stop at gun control.
I remember my friend showing me how he could break into his dad's gun closet. I might have been 8. I was too young to know how dangerous that was. But, I didn't kill anyone, and he didn't either. Why not?
I can't believe we were the only two kids in 1977 that could break into a gun closet. So are guns really the core issue here, or is it something else?

I'd love to know the answer and know how to fix it. If I knew that smashing all my guns would solve this and protect children forever, I'd do it right now. I just don' think that's the answer. Do you know?

It's a couple things in my opinion.

Kids are all told today that they are special and when they discover that they are not, they can't handle the reality. Then the mental problems start.

That leads to the second problem. Anti depression drugs. So many of these shooters are on drugs for depression.

That's my take on the subject. I will be interested to hear other opinions..

a reply to: network dude

The insane amount of pressure for people to succeed and be accepted.

We live in a culture of violence. Sports, Games, entertainment center around conquest of a foe usually thru strength and violence not negotiation and compromise. America is a warrior nation and as such we solve problems with violence. Our history as a nation reflects how America was established; by the near extinction of an entire race.
Domestic violence is at an all time high and kids learn from what the see; in the family, on TV, games, and at school.
Who are the popular kids at school, the scholars? No, they are viewed as sissy's, it's those that excel at sports and football in particular and those associated with sports.
Complicate the mix by adding in alienation, envy, bullying, drugs, and easy access to firearms; some are bound to lash out in anger at what they perceive as insults, disrespect and contempt from others.

What we are witnessing is a result of the choices we have made as a culture. There is no turning back imo and mass killings will increase in severity until society says enough an militaristic fascism is instituted like the society in "1984' with constant surveillance everywhere and total control by the state.

It's a brave new world....

www.parentstv.org...
domesticviolencestatistics.org...

Overpopulation and over emphasis on competition is one issue. Bad/busy parenting and garbage into the house is another.

Maybe its the amount of horomones we use in food now. When i was a kid, i never heard of horomones in my dinner...but then again, there wasnt the internet.
We use additives in food and our drinking water. Heck cheeze wiz is almost considered a plastic!
Not sure, but maybe all of it is somehow connected. poisoned ourselves

a reply to: network dude

I think that ultimately, it comes down to parenting (or lack thereof).

I would suggest that prescribing 'crazy pills' to kids at such a ridiculously high rate is part of the problem as well, but I believe that still falls under the umbrella of parenting. (This guy in a white lab coat tells me my kid needs to take ________, so he must be right). A kid that is sometimes a bit distracted, an ADHD patient he does not make. (Disclaimer: Yes, I do acknowledge that there are some kids that really do need meds to help them).

The economy/job market isn't what it used to be and I don't think that helps at all, as it pertains to parenting. Over the years we've went from having a typical scenario where there is one stay-home parent, which I believe (depending on the individual of course) goes a long way to creating a stable household. That just isn't the case anymore. Even with two parents working outside the home more and more people are finding it hard to make ends meet. (On a personal note, I am always grateful that my wife works in the medical field because after our son was born, she was able to find work at a local hospital's ER and take the night shift and since I work days, we never had to worry about finding relative stranger to watch our son as he goes through his formative years).

The public elementary schools aren't helping much either, in my opinion (which is why our son is in a private school that we can barely afford). While I'm all for keeping an eye out for potential future bullies, I think that some of this social-engineering type stuff has gone way out of control and is essentially confusing the hell out of kids of elementary school age. Not keeping score in games because heaven forbid someone wins and someone loses. Sex ed as young as Kindergarten. Off the hook "zero tolerance" policies to the extent where a kid points to his friend pretending it's a gun while pretending to be GI Joe characters or something like that and gets suspended or worse. Even with all this... It's still up to the parents to be proactive and contact the school and make their presence known to the faculty/staff to express concerns about policies/curriculum. People that I know that are teachers consistently tell me that as a general rule, the more interaction they have with parents, the less likely the kid will find himself in trouble.

I think that the internet is not to blame, but is just a mechanism for some of this. Way too often people try to "one-up" each other by posting more and more insane videos. However, again, it's up to the parents to watch their online activities like a hawk. (Disclaimer: I understand you can't see what your kids are up to every minute of the day and you don't know what their friends are up to).

I think that the world is making it a bit more difficult to parent these days and we can certainly complain about it, but at the end of the day this is the world we live in and parents need to step-up or not have kids in the first place.

That's my opinion.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
It's a couple things in my opinion.

Kids are all told today that they are special and when they discover that they are not, they can't handle the reality. Then the mental problems start.

That leads to the second problem. Anti depression drugs. So many of these shooters are on drugs for depression.

That's my take on the subject. I will be interested to hear other opinions..

100% Agree!

Our educational system and parenting is NOT preparing our children and youth for the realities of how damned cruel the world actually is. I am in my 50's and I remember some ruff times, but I also wasn't brought up to think I was a "special snow flake". I wasn't taught that when I didn't win, I still deserved a trophy, but a pat on the back and "maybe try harder next time"?

No lie! Even at my age I have my issues with how insane this country is becoming......

a reply to: network dude

Narcissism has run rampant with the birth of "social networking", "selfies", Facebook and such.

There is no WE anymore, just ME.

a reply to: network dude

People these days are too self absorbed/obsessed these days IMO.

As another member pointed out, everyone today believes they are special, and I believe it is because of social media.

With social media we are taunted into believing that everything we do good or bad needs to have an audience.

It creates a culture of people who know little of anything outside their social networks, and eventually it has served to disconnect us from our humanity; (going out and helping at a soup kitchen for instance or making a difference in the real world) those are things kids could never be bothered to do today and as such the disconnection continues from one another and the ego continues to become inflated.

Social media = maximum ego overdrive

I wish we can figure this out and stop the violence, but as my father used to say "If fishes were wishes, we'd all cast nets." I'm 50 - I grew up in Atlanta during the child abductions. We HAD serial killers - but those were really insane guys who abducted and killed kids or women over a long period of time. Just go out with a buddy (or 2, or 3) for safety. Manson, Bundy, Dahmer - they've also been in my lifetime. This disease has been with us for a while. Probably since we stopped being Hunter/Gatherers, and that could be wrong. I don't think that it has anything to do with guns, although they are a handy scapegoat. Same with horror movies, violent video games, and bad parenting. In the Middle Ages we had death and destruction everywhere. The Dark Ages were horrible. Humans haven't changed - we just have a smaller world with the internet and CNN. There WILL always be some nut case who thinks killing people is the answer. And until we can slice that inherent need to kill out of our DNA, I'm afraid we're stuck with senseless deaths.

My $.02

School shootings are covert operations. They are used to go after private ownership of guns, turn schools into prisons, and other noxious objectives.

It isn't a mystery to me really...

When I was born the American dream was everything. My parents were middle to upper working class, owned more than one house and had the luxury of telling me things like "Son, do what makes you happy. Getting rich is nice, but doing something you hate simply because it pays more is just silly. Pick a profession that you LOVE and the rest will work itself out."

I was told these words in a world where The Flintstones, The Brady Bunch and Gilligan's Island were hit, prime time TV shows. The only time I was exposed to extreme violence was when my Dad would opt to take us to an R rated movie. Oh, and when he did, I do not recall anyone getting bent over the idea that a man was bringing two kids into said R rated movie. Others respected his parenting decisions.

Now? Now we have a culture that is OBSESSED with death, violence as a "solution" and weaponry. People who posture endlessly but are, in reality, poop in their pants scared to death. A society of people who think that the Bush Doctrine applies to everyday life. Strike first, strike hard, and strike with shock and awe. The Tea Party extremism and Social Justice Warrior extremism are both manifestations of this mentality. There is no more debate nor compromise. It's an all or nothing gambit on both sides. This creates a severe polarization.

The advice my parents gave me would now sound like insanity. "Do what you want"??? Hell. Money is EVERYTHING and now we have to tell kids "Look. Either you score in the top 1% and sell your soul, or you will spend your entire life in debt and clawing for just the basics. You will seen as a loser and as trash. You will be destroyed. It's a vicious world and you had better learn to kill or you will be killed. And since you won't be inheriting a hundred million from me, your only hope is to go into a lifetime worth of debt for College, kiss a LOT of the right ass, cut throats, throw others under the bus, and pray that you somehow rise."

Take kids in that situation, expose them to a constant stream of hyperbolic and fatalistic partisan idiocy? And you get what we have now. A dystopian nightmare of hopelessness.

originally posted by: Socrato
Overpopulation and over emphasis on competition is one issue. Bad/busy parenting and garbage into the house is another.

I agree with this. We grow up and are lead to believe there will be work and opportunities for all but that simply is not true. We live in a society of winners and losers.

The 'loser' group has been growing exponentially and when you have a large enough group of disgruntled unemployed, depressed people, it's only a matter of time before a few of them want take 'take revenge' on the society they feel disavowed them.

I'm probably on a list somewhere because I fit the criteria of a possible mass-shooter.

a reply to: Hefficide

Your post resonated with me in a big way. Our son is too young for career-talk just yet, but when I discuss my hopes/wishes for my son with my friends/coworkers, while my stance might be a little less, well, extreme (for lack of a better word), it is definitely along the same lines.

In my imagination, when my son is old enough to start thinking about career choices, I'll be telling him:

- Don't do what you love, unless the is a realistic chance of having a future in it. If not, keep it a hobby (music, art, acting, writing, etc).

- Don't do what you hate, despite the money. We spend too much time of our lives at work and you can't live dreading to wake up each morning.

- Find something that pays well and that you don't mind too much. In part by effort and in part by luck, that is where I am right now, by the way. I have a good job that is somewhat recession-proof with steady raises and good benefits. I talk the talk when I have to (to bosses, clients, etc) but the truth is my job does not excite me. Well, some parts here and there do, but overall I don't have a passion for it but I can honestly say I don't hate it. I leave my passion for life outside of work. My job allows me to be somewhat comfortable economically but I don't need to get my joy from it. My joy comes after work by playing with my son, spending time with my wife, etc.

- One other tip that is probably essentially pointless because of e-mails, blackberries and all that is to find a career where you can actually have a life when the work day ends. Although I do take some pride in the fact that I guess I'm important enough to have "urgent" e-mails and phone calls coming in after hours.... I can't stand it! It never, ever ends. The worst part is those people, and you know who you are out there, that hardly do anything all day/week and then at the very end of the day/week, you send me an e-mail about some bull crap and copy the world to make it LOOK like you are working.

I guess I kind of rambled there. Sorry about that but there you have it.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
It's a couple things in my opinion.

Kids are all told today that they are special and when they discover that they are not, they can't handle the reality. Then the mental problems start.

That leads to the second problem. Anti depression drugs. So many of these shooters are on drugs for depression.

That's my take on the subject. I will be interested to hear other opinions..

Simplified, of course, but in a nutshell, I'd say those are 2 of the greatest contributing factors. Bad parenting is a big part of it as well - some of which, I believe, may be because outside influences are stronger and more pervasive than they once were, which means parents need to have an even stronger relationship with their children in order to compete.

a reply to: seeker1963

My own belief is that some parents aren't capable or able to parent effectively, and I think this is due to kids having kids. It seems to be common that if a child plays up like children & teenagers do, they have some illness, some "ism" or "disorder" its like some fashion accessory! So the kid gets bunged on medication, the parents get a monged out quiet kid so they can do as they please without interference, and the pharmaceutical companies get rich.

As a halfassed futurist what I see in the very near future for the USofA is more violence in the form of WAR plus the military will be deployed in the US as law enforcement. If you look closely it is happening as we speak.

The Draft will be re-instituted and those of you with kids will see them conscripted and into the military. The state will get those kids squared away because both the parents will have to work to just to make ends meet. A planned result of corporate capitalism.

A dystopian future all wrapped up in red, white and blue nationalism.

www.rantingdragon.com...

Depressing but great thread!!

originally posted by: Mianeye
a reply to: network dude

The insane amount of pressure for people to succeed and be accepted.

Yep, often overlooked!

Read non revisionist history. It's chock full of mass executions and depletions of entire civilizations. Where in human history have people lived peacefully for long periods of time? We are so short sited we think a decade of peace is the the norm and not the exception.