Why Creation Is The Only Logical Explanation...

a reply to: mOjOm

Haha, don't feel too bad. I'm starting to get burned out myself from all this. I know it gets redundant.

It seems like many people need a basic course in logic. I'm getting so tired of the fallacies used to justify other fallacies in a big circle that never ends.

I really have no problem at all with people having faith in creation, but they go to such lengths in order to justify something that is supposed to be faith based. It's not necessary.

I think people that get so defensive of faith are starting to subconsciously question it themselves. They want to prove it, but just can't do it in a logical way. It's only a matter of time before they realize it and end up replacing us in these threads. They will be arguing for evolution and science while we retire to the Caribbean islands.

to that!

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: edmc^2
So if you have no stance, then where are you basing your argument that I have no evidence?

You're not making sense mOjOm.

Ummm, on the fact that you haven't shown any.

Pointing out possible errors in science or evolution isn't evidence that supports your claims. It might be evidence to show they are incorrect but not that you are correct.

Asking me or someone else to questions to which we may not have answers isn't evidence that your answers are true.

Asking me to prove your assumptions wrong also is not evidence that your assumptions are correct.

So you can see, being that as it may, you have provided no evidence to support your claim.

In the same way I provided no evidence to support my claim that "God is a horses ass that crapped the universe into existence." Yet being that you cannot prove me wrong, does that mean I'm right???

Sure I can prove you wrong.

I can say you're wrong because what you said doesn't make sense and there's no logic behind it.

"God is a horses ass that crapped the universe into existence" is nonsense.

Even scientifically speaking, it's incoherent because we know, based on empirical data, a horse can't "crapped the universe into existence". It can't for the simple fact that it has no power nor the ability to do so.

However, since there's intelligence in the universe, in nature, then I can logically say that there must be a mind behind it as much as I can say that behind the iPhone is a mind.

Empirical data supports this also and any logical person can see it.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: mOjOm

Haha, don't feel too bad. I'm starting to get burned out myself from all this. I know it gets redundant.

It seems like many people need a basic course in logic. I'm getting so tired of the fallacies used to justify other fallacies in a big circle that never ends.

I really have no problem at all with people having faith in creation, but they go to such lengths in order to justify something that is supposed to be faith based. It's not necessary.

I think people that get so defensive of faith are starting to subconsciously question it themselves. They want to prove it, but just can't do it in a logical way. It's only a matter of time before they realize it and end up replacing us in these threads. They will be arguing for evolution and science while we retire to the Caribbean islands.

to that!

barcs, welcome.

Just to let you know I have no problem with atheists believing in what they don't know. I don't have problems with atheist having faith in "nothing" either.

Of course, when there's no logic involve but blind faith, then that's a problem.

a reply to: Barcs

If your "logic" were so true then there would be no debate. Obviously this is not the case. You can admit defeat by choosing not to engage in the conversation claiming that its a deficiency on the part of others that YOUR "logic" (rhetoric really) makes no sense but again that wont make it necessarily true.

originally posted by: edmc^2
Even scientifically speaking, it's incoherent because we know, based on empirical data, a horse can't "crapped the universe into existence". It can't for the simple fact that it has no power nor the ability to do so.

That is not scientifically speaking. The laws of physics say that energy cannot be created or destroyed. No being could create energy in our universe. Your guess is just as much a guess as the horse.

a reply to: amazing

Actually Jesus said God is still at work until this day. If God is still at work then we are not even on day 7 when God rests from all his work.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

The genesis account falls in line with evolution if you except a day is to god a metaphor that doesn't necessarily mean a day to man. The order of genesis follows scientific ideals of evolution perfectly. From the formation of the earth, to sea life, to land animals then to humans.

I Personally believe man is still in the process of being created/evolving at the hands of the father. And that we are currently in the evening period of day 6.

The dark/negative world we live in will continue until we reach the morning of the 6th day which is known as the age of Christ/enlightenment, when we decide love, peace and harmony are more valuable than religion, power and control.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2

There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.

Why?

Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.

Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.

Why?

Because the alternative is to believe / accept that "nothing" created everything. Hence blind faith.

And the Bible is not the only source for evidence that life or the universe was a creation by God.

Creation or nature also gives us evidence.

Not true.

The alternative is to believe in what is possible....the existence of the Idea of Something and the Idea of Nothing.

Everything in the Universe proves that Ideas in Minds are the ONLY ideas that do not materialize in Space and Time. However, material things carry Ideas that actually do cause those ideas to materialize, like magic. Like human reproduction.

One thing is certain, Ideas from Minds do not spontaneously materialize.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Barcs

If your "logic" were so true then there would be no debate. Obviously this is not the case. You can admit defeat by choosing not to engage in the conversation claiming that its a deficiency on the part of others that YOUR "logic" (rhetoric really) makes no sense but again that wont make it necessarily true.

There is no debate! There never has been.

In fact a challenge thread was made in this section and nobody dared to accept a formal debate to defend creationism with logical evidence.

This is stubborn people arguing their opinion as fact on the internet. There is no logic being used here. I already pointed out more than one logical fallacy and clearly demonstrated the fatal flaw of his argument. He still has no response for this. I'm waiting for him or anybody to defend his claim.

a reply to: Barcs

Hmm you keep saying the word logic but I don't think it means what you think it does. Here we go here is some logic.
0 + 0 = 0. If you can make that add up to anything other than zero then go ahead.

originally posted by: edmc^2

Of course, when there's no logic involve but blind faith, then that's a problem.

Exactly, we have a widely followed religious text showing us the truth. We have innumerable amounts of people who verify God. We know within our soul that God is real. We know the story of creation as told by many generations. So the real question is why do all these people posting continue denying Odin Father? Oh, wait, or is that Zeus? Allah? Yahweh? Dang it, which single and true God are we talking about here? Oh yes, it is Mort who tripped upon the tortoise and created that which should not have been created...us.

Don't worry, I am working on the Scripture of Mort and His Mortisms. Does anyone want to follow Mort and become my lackey? I do so find typing the words of Mort to be so tedious. But He does go in depth on how He created the Universe. It is scripture and it is believed in, that is the total sum of requirements to make it true, is it not? Anywho, believe in creation and watch out for those ever tripping tortoisi, tortoisess, tort... turtles.

(And edmc^2, you are the master T, and Mort blesses you as such)

I saw the phrase "God of the gaps" thrown around. The materialist hate to acknowledge their own gaps though. This is why they create arcane constructs like "dark matter" .

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Now, can you prove that there was ever just 0? That is an assumption.



undsci.berkeley.edu...

Here's a good starting point. Note the part about logical inferences. The premises need to be true or the entire inference falls apart. This is what is happening with the OP. His statement that "life can only come from other life" is unverified because such a thing has never been observed.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Barcs

Really? We have never observed life coming from other life? I think you mean life arising from inanimate matter has never been observed.

You can try any sort of numeric voodoo that you like. You can create phantom numbers and complex equations but in reality 0+0 = 0 . This is my point about dark matter. Their theories dont match with their observations so what do they do? They create equations (phantoms) that make their theory work then try to search for the unobserved dark matter. It is very anti-scientific.

originally posted by: ObservingTheWorld

originally posted by: edmc^2

Of course, when there's no logic involve but blind faith, then that's a problem.

Exactly, we have a widely followed religious text showing us the truth. We have innumerable amounts of people who verify God. We know within our soul that God is real. We know the story of creation as told by many generations. So the real question is why do all these people posting continue denying Odin Father? Oh, wait, or is that Zeus? Allah? Yahweh? Dang it, which single and true God are we talking about here? Oh yes, it is Mort who tripped upon the tortoise and created that which should not have been created...us.

Don't worry, I am working on the Scripture of Mort and His Mortisms. Does anyone want to follow Mort and become my lackey? I do so find typing the words of Mort to be so tedious. But He does go in depth on how He created the Universe. It is scripture and it is believed in, that is the total sum of requirements to make it true, is it not? Anywho, believe in creation and watch out for those ever tripping tortoisi, tortoisess, tort... turtles.

(And edmc^2, you are the master T, and Mort blesses you as such)

Thank you for your participation and showing us the extent or weakness of your knowledge. Ridicule only makes a mockery of the one making it. Hope you remember it.

a reply to: edmc^2

I admire your fortitude. It's tough taking a stand for God sometimes. Just know that He is watching and He's right behind us. He'll even lend a hand when the time is right. Apply some logic to this and follow the steps. Can you see GOD in the second graphic at the bottom?





They say that I picked the numbers to stack the outcome. What do you think?

There has always existed the potential of the IDEA of 0 and every other number...and there has always existed the potential of the Universe.

That's what came before the Universe.

Math dictated that this potential could be realized through a long string and network of 'idea' equations that would lead exactly to where we are via one material Idea giving birth to new material ideas in Space & Time.

a reply to: TheLamb

I see GOD with Devil horns on the 'O'.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Barcs

Really? We have never observed life coming from other life? I think you mean life arising from inanimate matter has never been observed.

You can try any sort of numeric voodoo that you like. You can create phantom numbers and complex equations but in reality 0+0 = 0 . This is my point about dark matter. Their theories dont match with their observations so what do they do? They create equations (phantoms) that make their theory work then try to search for the unobserved dark matter. It is very anti-scientific.

You are making stuff up. We have never observed life arising. I haven't created anything. I am not making claims about the origin of the universe, I am pointing out the logical flaws in the OPs argument. Feel free to defend it at anytime instead of repeating the original claim and changing the subject to an arbitrary equation that has ZERO to do with the argument. The entire premise is hitched on a huge assumption. If there was ever nothing, then nothing could arise from it, not even god. There's no evidence of that.

a reply to: TheLamb

I respect where you are coming from with your observation. The only problem I see is that "God" is not a ubiquitous term.

a reply to: Barcs

That isn't true in all cases though. You only operate from the assumption that God has to exist within the universe. If you remove this assumption then what say you? You argue from an understanding of laws but if those laws only apply to the universe (that which is created) then you can not infer that God has to have been created as well.

I can freely admit though that that is merely an unprovable assumption. This is like many of the scientific theories presented as fact. Similar to dark matter.