Why Creation Is The Only Logical Explanation...

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

What a loving god. He doesn't do anything for us. Uses a book full of contradictions as his only way to prove himself. Decides that the only time he will let himself be known to be is when I die and because I choose not to worship him sends me to a place of eternal torment.

That would be like my birth father leaving when I was born and then when I'm a grown man he comes and beats me mercilessly because I didn't turn out the way he expected.

You keep saying eternal torment, it seems you really were confused

God never leaves us, we leave Him

I could argue every assumption you have, there is no point

a reply to: Raggedyman

How am I confused because I say eternal torment.

◄ Matthew 25:46 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

It says so right there. Eternal punishment. There's plenty more.

And please do argue my assumptions.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

How am I confused because I say eternal torment.

◄ Matthew 25:46 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

It says so right there. Eternal punishment. There's plenty more.

And please do argue my assumptions.

Do you know that the bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, do you understand exegesis.

I dont intend to fight you over the wordings or text, I would recommend you, if you are interested, to go study what the bible teaches, both sides of the argument.

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).1
Now clearly the fire is eternal, hell is eternal

New International Version
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Eternal punishment could be non existence

There is a raging argument between theologians, its not a settled case

benirwin.me...

Death, destruction, it means annihilation, Adam ate from the tree of knowledge not the tree of life

www.bible-researcher.com...

It was the Greeks and Romans who are said to have first introduced eternal hell for sinners.
There is no question hell is eternal, the question is will mankind suffer there eternaly, I dont believe it so.

a reply to: Joecanada11

I can't believe I'm going to put this in print for all eternity since nothing ever dies once it's on the interwebs
But, Raggedyman is correct in his interpretation. The whole eternal torture thing wasn't a part of theology until the latter part of the Middle Ages and popularized by Dante's Inferno. The English word Hell is derived from the proto-Germanic Hel which was the "pagan" underworld and is an approximation or equivocation of the Hebrew Sheol. The torment of hell was being denied the light and grace of God for eternity. It was easy for the Church of Rome to hoist the new interpretation on the illiterate masses and was another method of control to be implemented and a way of gaining additional finances from the semi literate and literate upper class by charging them for a free pass.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
We're your parents ever torturers because they smacked your little tooshy

No but then again a smack on the bottom isn't the same as being thrown into a lake of fire.

If thay had done that then I'm sure the label might fit.

originally posted by: peter vlar
The torment of hell was being denied the light and grace of God for eternity.

But what does that entail?

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.

So yeah, an apologist might twist things to allow the god of the bible to wash his hands but can he really do that if it is all his design?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
We're your parents ever torturers because they smacked your little tooshy

No but then again a smack on the bottom isn't the same as being thrown into a lake of fire.

If thay had done that then I'm sure the label might fit.

No its not.
Your argument changes every reply.
I dont care to keep up.

FINAL JUDGEMENT

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: peter vlar
The torment of hell was being denied the light and grace of God for eternity.

But what does that entail?

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.

So yeah, an apologist might twist things to allow the god of the bible to wash his hands but can he really do that if it is all his design?

Only if He can give you a free choice to make a decision that is suitable to you.
Yes its designed so you can operate independently away from God, to a point

I would imagine all the complaining going on if God was active, it would be no different.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
No its not.
Your argument changes every reply.
I dont care to keep up.

FINAL JUDGEMENT

What argument? All i did was post some text from the bible stating that sinners will be punished and then pointed out that human parents can't dole out the kind of punishment.

Not having a good reply is not the same as choosing not to keep up.

Let's be frank, the bible doesn't give you enough to make a logical defense. In fact it, as it usually does, just tosses more fuel on the eternal fire.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Only if He can give you a free choice to make a decision that is suitable to you.

And that decision is answered by punishment. That isn't much of a decision, that is coercion. Human parents do that all the time but an all powerful being doing that goes against the picture you are trying to paint of him and it debases the idea of a free will.

originally posted by: daskakik

What argument? All i did was post some text from the bible stating that sinners will be punished and then pointed out that human parents can't dole out the kind of punishment.

Not having a good reply is not the same as choosing not to keep up.

Let's be frank, the bible doesn't give you enough to make a logical defense. In fact it, as it usually does, just tosses more fuel on the eternal fire.

arguing payback
"You mean payback, like the mafia? Good to know god is such a classy fellow. "

Gods not there
"f course some had one just like god, never saw him. "

Gods a torturer
"No but then again a smack on the bottom isn't the same as being thrown into a lake of fire. "

God designed people to go to hell
"o yeah, an apologist might twist things to allow the god of the bible to wash his hands but can he really do that if it is all his design? "

Believe what you want
For an atheist you are a very fundy preacher dask

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Only if He can give you a free choice to make a decision that is suitable to you.

And that decision is answered by punishment. That isn't much of a decision, that is coercion. Human parents do that all the time but an all powerful being doing that goes against the picture you are trying to paint of him and it debases the idea of a free will.

That decision is, is IS answered by punishment if you dont say sorry

This is stupid

You need to go back to where we started this tet a tet, punished if you dont repent, say sorry and stop being a dick

Free will is your choice, if you didnt have it you would complain you were a programmed robot or something, its a pointless argument
You cant be satisfied

This thread is about Why Creation Is The Only Logical Explanation
So I will leave theology out from here on in, last words ll yours, have at it

some other time, other place

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TzarChasm

Do criminals fear police, jail, being caught, what are you going to,say TC

People fear the same thing they have always feared, justice

i can understand how the concept of justice is difficult for you to understand, but fear of justice is a key motivator for many people

So rant and rail against God all you like, I bet you slow down when you see a police car, you are scared of being caught speeding
Justice

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Oh right, you call that justice.

I think your understanding of fear is a little unbalanced, maybe suitable to your argument as opposed to logic.

Fear has motivated people to survive and grow

Or it has something to do with Yoda.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Joecanada11

Did my father correct me ? Sure he did. Did he torure me until I wanted to find death but could not (as written in revelation) no of course not because a loving father doesn't do that.

Are you a fundamentalist? A biblical literalist?

Do you have your own interpretation of the bible and religion?

In Revelations, the coming of Jesus will not be pretty for some people. there WILL be a lot of moaning and rending and gnashing of teeth.

A lot of, "I told you so's" and "WTF's" it will be awesome.

Just imagine. The end of the world.

The atheists will get their wish and just disappear forever.

lol. That's what it says.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Only if He can give you a free choice to make a decision that is suitable to you.

And that decision is answered by punishment. That isn't much of a decision, that is coercion. Human parents do that all the time but an all powerful being doing that goes against the picture you are trying to paint of him and it debases the idea of a free will.

What do you think will make you go to hell?

What do you want to do? Eat some clams? wear a polyester/cotton blend?

What, pray tell, do you want to do that will send you to hell?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
arguing payback
"You mean payback, like the mafia? Good to know god is such a classy fellow. "

Gods not there
"f course some had one just like god, never saw him. "

Gods a torturer
"No but then again a smack on the bottom isn't the same as being thrown into a lake of fire. "

God designed people to go to hell
"o yeah, an apologist might twist things to allow the god of the bible to wash his hands but can he really do that if it is all his design? "

Believe what you want
For an atheist you are a very fundy preacher dask

I just posted the text, as is, your the one saying that it means something else.

That decision is, is IS answered by punishment if you dont say sorry

This is stupid

It is, because it doesn't change the fact that punishment is involved.

You need to go back to where we started this tet a tet, punished if you dont repent, say sorry and stop being a dick

Actualy it started with you asking "where does it say that?". It was pointed out with you then trying to convince the readers of this thread that the bible doesn't mean what it says.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
What do you think will make you go to hell?

What do you want to do? Eat some clams? wear a polyester/cotton blend?

What, pray tell, do you want to do that will send you to hell?

I don't believe in hell. I'm just pointing at what the book says, like here.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

I don't believe it's ever going to happen. Especially since we've been waiting 2000 years.

The scriptures also made it pretty clear the so called second coming should have been around the time of the apostles. More failed bible prophecies.

I'm an atheist now. I finally came to my senses. And how nice that Christians are so looking forward to the revelation torture. Nice guys you are. Good thing you have no evidence on your side.

The only I told you so's are going to be us atheists in 20-30-40 years saying where is your so called second coming now.

Like I said maybe there is a god. I highly doubt it but it's possible. But the bible is so full of contradictions and holes that I can say it wasn't inspired by god. And if by the small fraction of a chance it was he would be a horrible god anyways.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Yeah I realize there are two sides of the arguement. I mentioned it in another thread. One camp believes in eternal hell the other annihilation. Either way those are extreme punishments for a so called parent.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

Yeah I realize there are two sides of the arguement. I mentioned it in another thread. One camp believes in eternal hell the other annihilation. Either way those are extreme punishments for a so called parent.

God is father to His children, those who accept Jesus, have repented and work faithfully, or at least try
You assume God is Father to all.
He can only be Father to those who accept Him