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Obama: Mass shootings are 'something we should politicize'

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posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: neformore




All I'm seeing here is denial of a problem (and denial that there may even be an issue) by pro-gun people.


I agree !

There is some hardcore DENIAL here.

That DUE PROCESS, and the US constitution doesn't seem to matter to some.




posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: vor78

originally posted by: neformore
The reason why that isn't discussed is that its not relevant to the fact that it is, apparently, easy for mentally ill or disturbed individuals with a history of violence to get guns

That is the matter that needs addressing.


OK, then what, specifically, does neformore propose we do about that? I may have missed it, but I don't think you've managed to fit that in yet.


Apparently I and every other gun owner is repsonsbile for what the Mercers,Holmes, and Lanzas do.

Even though we have been posting away on ATS when 'tragedy' happens.
edit on 3-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

And as we know most people that are behind violence with guns and with mental issues are also been or have been under treatment already.

Then we most ask another question, why is treatment no working for some and for others it just makes them either lone suicidal or mass murderers.

You are opening the can of worms that nobody wants to talk about because is not part of the gun agenda and that is the underfunded mental treatments of people with mental illnesses.

An evidence-based approach to gun control

This is what experts feel is the right way to approach the issue of gun violence.


A history of violent behavior, especially with criminal justice involvement, and other behavioral indicators of risk are much stronger predictors of future gun violence than having a serious mental health diagnosis, the researchers say, echoing the findings of the Consortium for Risk-Based Firearm Policy, a group of national experts on gun-violence prevention and mental illness that released a set of federal and state policy recommendations in December 2013.

Such risk indicators include being subject to a temporary domestic violence restraining order, having been convicted of a violent misdemeanor, having two or more driving-under-the-influence convictions in a five-year period, and having two or more controlled-substance convictions in five years.

The researchers' analysis supports additional recommendations by the consortium, including the development of state mechanisms allowing law enforcement officers to confiscate guns from individuals who pose an immediate threat to themselves or others, and to request a warrant for the removal of guns when the risk of harm is "credible," if not immediate. In addition, the consortium suggests that family members and intimate partners be able to petition the court to temporarily authorize gun removal and prohibit gun purchases by individuals who pose a credible risk of harm to themselves or others.

On the federal level, the researchers' findings support the consortium's suggestion that the government clarify and refine policies dealing with gun disqualification for individuals who have been involuntary committed for mental health reasons, and state laws should be strengthened to prohibit gun purchases or possession following a short-term involuntary hospitalization. The consortium also recommended a clinically informed judicial process for restoring gun ownership rights following their removal based on evidence of risk of harm.


And to add ad the end,


"The right to bear arms is not unlimited and must be balanced with public safety concerns," said Mays. "Our project was about using data to inform policies that will be most effective in reducing firearm-related injury and mortality, while respecting the rights of lawful gun owners.


Can Neformore live with policies like the ones been talk about by experts, can we all live with this? or the government doesn't want to take any approach due to the toxic political nature of taking a stance on gun control, for now, unless is one that have a more deeper agenda than just keep guns out of the hands of those that should no be having them to begin with

medicalxpress.com...



edit on 3-10-2015 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: neformore




The reason why that isn't discussed is that its not relevant to the fact that it is, apparently, easy for mentally ill or disturbed individuals with a history of violence to get guns


I don't know WHY i have to keep posting the REALITY here.



(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;


1968 Gun Control Act


Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;


Brady Law

ATF Form 4473

11 B, C,E,H,I

www.atf.gov...

Lying on ATF form 4473 is a FELONY.

Nef with all due respect if your going to talk about American political issues ?

Kmow the LAW.
edit on 3-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: neo96

That is the problem, we already have law, we already has studies by experts when it comes to gun violence the law that has been there before actually more often than not does cover the same issues that now experts talk about.

Why is not working? because at state level we have loopholes, the Gun manufacturers lobbyist along with the gun sellers are very good at paying off those that they can to keep them for looking to the other side when it comes to whom can buy guns in America.

netformore we are not bashing you for the contrary we are looking at the agendas behind gun control, the laws that are already in the books, why they are not working and why we need more or not

Rather than enforcing the ones we already have.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: marg6043




Why is not working? because at state level we have loopholes, the Gun manufacturers lobbyist along with the gun sellers are very good at paying off those that they can to keep them for looking to the other side when it comes to whom can buy guns in America.


How's that ?

11 b on ATF form 4473 deprives millions of Americans of their clear constitutional rights.

11b is about what a person COULD have been charged with. Not how it the courts finally ruled. That covers a great many things.

And if that's the case gun lobbyists sure have done a snip poor job then.
edit on 3-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: intrepid

So Brejvik killed 70 some people in the US? No one shot anyone in that Kenyan mall?

Please, there are mass shootings elsewhere.



Lets get really real about this.

Since Obama was re-elected in November 2012, there's been no less than 996 instances of multiple gun fatalities in the United States where at least four people (gunman included) have died.

Nine hundred and ninety-six. In about 1,060 days.

None of these murderers were part of a terrorist group, or anything else that scares you people to death - they were Americans who decided that other Americans should be on the sharpest possible end of your rights as a society.

Breivik's dispicable crime took place before this, in 2011. So, nearly 1,000 incidences have happened since - none with his incredible death-toll, but still a mere fraction of America's losses. The Nairobi thing was committed in 2013 by al-Shabaab - an Islamist Wahabi group more hardline than the one that downed the WTC. Imagine pointing to a group like that as evidence of things being fine with American gun culture. Bloody hell.

Suggesting that 'this thing happens everywhere' makes Americans look like stupid children. This thing does happen everywhere. but it doesn't happen with the frequency and severity of the very crimes that you lot cling to as evidence of your freedom.

What about the freedom not to catch a bullet at your place of learning? Or does that not matter?



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: neo96

I guess we most look at those that get their guns bypassing Federal rules, it seems then that is easier to get a gun illegally that going into all the licensing and purchasing mumble jumbo.

So what it is, NEO, that laws only target law abiding citizens or that those with the mental issues do not abide by the law.

They still get their guns, right?

What it is, the laws are there, but gun violence is still going on.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: marg6043




I guess we most look at those that get their guns bypassing Federal rules, it seems then that is easier to get a gun illegally that going into all the licensing and purchasing mumble jumbo


Yeah like law enforcement that gets to skip all the rules that the little people have to play by.




What it is, the laws are there, but gun violence is still going on.


People don't really care bout LAWS.

After all murder is ILLEGAL.
edit on 3-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: neo96

Look at the profile of the killer, most weapons he had in his possession at time of death were legally obtained, but guess what, he had a pattern of distinctive behavior that should have been a flag

Why family didn't nothing that pattern?


The 26-year-old gunman who opened fire on fellow students in his community college English class, killing nine people, was an Army boot camp dropout who studied mass shooters before becoming one himself.

A day after the rampage in this Oregon timber town, authorities said Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer wore a flak jacket and brought at least six guns and five ammunition magazines to the school. Investigators found another seven guns at the apartment he shared with his mother.


Doesn't that sounds suspicious or our society has become so blinded by certain social behavior in our young people that not longer people worries when somebody is not acting the way that happy normal people should?


Reina Webb, 19, said the man's mother was friendly and often chatted with neighbors, but Harper-Mercer kept to himself. She said she occasionally heard him having temper tantrums in his apartment.

"He was kind of like a child so that's why his tantrums would be like kind of weird. He's a grown man. He shouldn't be having a tantrum like a kid. That's why I thought there was something — something was up," she said.


What I posted earlier about how experts analyzed behavior patterns of mass shooters it seems that this young man was exhibiting some of the signs? Or in todays society we have learn to stay away from confrontations because been unhappy, different, depress and dangerous to an extend is your constitutional God given right.

mediacomtoday.com...

You are changing your tune on the subject Neo



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: neo96

Also murder is illegal and I will not argue with that, after all its part of the Christian 10 commandments right?

But owning a gun is a constitutional right. Right neo, and that is what we are talking about.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: marg6043




Look at the profile of the killer, most weapons he had in his possession at time of death were legally obtained, but guess what, he had a pattern of distinctive behavior that should have been a flag


I did and noticed the guy was born in the UK.

And yet America has some 'endemic' problem.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: neo96

You need your head examined if you think America has no "endemic" problem.
On the top of this page you agree there is a denial problem..which is it?..problem or no problem?
edit on 3-10-2015 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: neo96

What, what WHAT? he was not American born?, that makes sense, why he was so much into the Irish Republican Army and frustrated by traditional organized religion, now I got it, I think




posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: vonclod

The endemic problem is no different than the endemic problem the rest of the world has.

Violence.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

Sure..to deny it is..I'll try to be polite and leave it at that.
There is a difference though..just look at body counts per capita in the various countries..clearly some countries have far more issues than others.
edit on 3-10-2015 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: neo96

And what does being half Brit/half American have to do with anything? Brit father, I understand... moved to America aged four.

Did we radicalise him, or something? Are most of your shooters British in origin?

Edit: Also, the IRA thing - bloody hell. Supporting the IRA is about the most American thing I can think of. Even the Irish who want a united Ireland are mainly against them.
edit on 3-10-2015 by KingIcarus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: vonclod

So let me get this straight.

.01% of the US population out of 320 million Americans go around shooting people.

Of course that is not counting the number of people LEO kills on a daily basis.

Of course that's not counting the deaths in progressive utopia like Chicago that have the highest gun control laws in the country.

Yeah some people are in DENIAL.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: KingIcarus
a reply to: neo96

And what does being half Brit/half American have to do with anything? Brit father, I understand... moved to America aged four.

Did we radicalise him, or something? Are most of your shooters British in origin?


IT means 'crazy' got imported.



posted on Oct, 3 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: neo96

What, what WHAT? he was not American born?, that makes sense, why he was so much into the Irish Republican Army and frustrated by traditional organized religion, now I got it, I think



He wasn't.

Oregon shooting suspect Chris Harper-Mercer 'born in UK'




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