The Fall of the EU?

a reply to: Aazadan

Nope we would need a to know hostiles from innocents , BEFORE hand.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Wonderful summation PhyllidaDavenport. I have two contradicting thoughts on the matter. Prosperity of the modern world has been based on debt bubbles that future generations can no longer afford so prosperity world wide has to retract. But it should never favour one country (Germany) at the cost of another (Greece). Greece should turn their back on the EU and follow Icelands model.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

The Swedish statistics mislead everyone, since many things are considered some kind of sex-related crime there which would be accepted in other countries, such as opening the door to a lady, having sex with a woman while she is under the influence of alcohol, or spreading jokes or sexual gossip at your workplace etc.

I heard interviews with EU sociologists - and also with Hungarian immigrants to Sweden who have been there for a long time and were successfully integrated - say that the stats for what would be considered sexual harassment or a crime etc. in other developed countries are 1. actually lower in Sweden 2. almost everything is noticed there, while for example in the US and Hungary - two countries where I lived for a longer time - a lot of rapes are unreported (marital rape or relatives), and much of harassment is not regarded harassment depending on where you are - in uneducated areas it's OK.

Another question - why do you say that the warm port thing about the Russians is a "myth"? I grew up in Soviet-ruled Hungary and most intellectuals dealing with the subject confirmed that what was then the Soviet Union was desperate to gain seaports which are not frozen all year round. The same is maintained by American geopolitics expert Friedman of Stratfor fame. Presently the new Russian empire has a port in Tartus, Syria...

The Black Sea is not enough since Turkey can close off the Bosporus any time it wants.
About warm water ports and Russia

a reply to: glend

indeed they should

The problems regarding Greece are long and complicated but culminate in German business interests in Greece and non payment of taxes. German companies run the airports, the toll roads and German CEO's were involved in the bribery scandal of Akis Tsochatzopolous the Defence Minister relating to the importing of German tanks & weapons. Hochtief the giant German construction company that own and run Athens airport has not paid VAT in over 20yrs owing the grand total of over 500m eu plus non payment of taxes or social security contributions which the Greek Finance Minister tallies the debt is in the region of 1bn eu. It was pressure from the EU and Germany in particular, at the time of the yes/no voting in Greece, that convinced the banks to close. Greece sold out its sovereignty to become a puppet colony of the EU, and Syriza sold itself out by abandoning the Thessoloniki Programme which his party wholeheartedly supported, when Schauble told Tsipiras it was "incompatible with EU membership" and attempted twice to bribe Tsipiras to leave the EU voluntarily without a referendum

None of this financial wrongdoing by German companies has been mentioned as it didn't fit in with Greece being the transgressor. The bullying of Greece has led to the reputation of the EU "family" being shredded and has been a wake up call to other countries who could find themselves in very much the same position as Greece e.g. Portugal Spain & possibly Ireland

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

No I have never heard of the German infiltration of business and government you describe. But if countries refuse to indite banks and businesses for unethical behaviour they will continue to corrupt everything in their path. The Greeks must follow icelands example and start arresting corrupted officials or face austerity measures forever and a day. I don't see any other choice.

a reply to: glend

I agree entirely. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of why they haven't and it appears so far to go back years to various corrupt Greek Governments, lots of back handers and bribery for contracts etc. You know, the usual wheelings and dealings of honest to goodness businessmen with more greed than brain cells

a reply to: Kokatsi

I believe that in this scenario specifically, a warm water port is NOT the main objective. They have Sevastipol as well as the Black Sea. The main objective at the moment at least is to keep the stranglehold on the natural gas that they supply to Europe which is why Assad refused to agree to the Qatar pipeline running through Syria. Always wheels within wheels with these people

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Aazadan

Hardly fair to be targetting people that are already living in Europe though is it? That's just threatening tactics

No, it's completely fair. The EU provides ongoing benefits for remaining a member, to leave the EU means ceasing those benefits, which is to say targeting the UK citizens that would be living in the EU at that point. It might not be a very nice thing to do, and if people were trying to not be jerks they could avoid doing so, but human nature tends to look at leaving a group as being a traitor and that doesn't generate much good will.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Aazadan

Nope we would need a to know hostiles from innocents , BEFORE hand.

I don't see a difference really. In an ideal world we know the difference between those who are hostile and those who aren't, but at the risk of sounding like I'm quoting Hillary, what difference does it make? If we only let the good refuge's in we leave all of the bad people beyond our legal jurisdiction and ultimately send them back to their home countries where they'll get involved in plots against us. On the other hand, if they're in our country and we later uncover evidence of a plot or they take action we can actually do something about them.

a reply to: Aazadan

The difference being we aren't as passive as Europe.
If a great deal are sent here the govt wont enact martial law on them but on US when we get them BEFORE law enforcement when they expose hostile intentions and we kill them for it.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I do think it's relevant. Since the Black Sea is closed - see how they risked international isolation for annexing Crimea though they had leasing rights on that port in exchange of the nuclear arm submitted by Ukraine under the Budapest Agreement.
Turkey easily stops the Russians Navy from ever crossing the Bosporus any time they get hostile with Russia. Take a look at the map.
Tartus in Syria is the only warm water port Russia has now, and Assad is handling that. So it may be just as important as the gas deal.
Russia - judging from its cyber war and its official ideology wants to make hot wars now - and they have an ideological mission to provide a counterbalance to the West. Read Alexander Dugin, Putin's chief ideologue. The US is supposed to be the chief devil and the Russians should control Europe and actually reconquest all the lands in the former Soviet Union together with its satellites.

They are paying all the extreme right wingers in all EU countries (they do not even deny it in the case of Hungary and France), and set up extreme Fascist sites abroad - sometimes in the US - for all these various nations.
Russia is the second largest military according to CIA factbook in 2015. And they have a Muslim population around 20 million.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
The EU is NOT Germany but one could be mistaken for believing so

You would be an asset for the UK out vote IF we ever get the much

promised referendum ......

a reply to: eletheia

Thanks much appreciated Often thought of going into politics full time but alas wayyy too many skeletons in the closet...and out of it come to think about it

I don't believe for a moment we will get the referendum, if we did, I think it would just be for show.I reckon it would be fixed anyway

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: eletheia

Thanks much appreciated Often thought of going into politics full time but alas wayyy too many skeletons in the closet...and out of it come to think about it

I don't believe for a moment we will get the referendum, if we did, I think it would just be for show.I reckon it would be fixed anyway

LOL!! ..... I don't know how you can say that after the recent

'alleged' revelations about our PM.

a reply to: eletheia

True lol at least my indiscretions haven't involved farm animals....not that I can remember anyway! But alas I'm not one for the spotlight, too old and ugly

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

The govt of the EU is structerd to make break up impossible. It will take mass realisation that:

Quite the contrary - all a member state has to do is issue notice and that is that. It is really very, very easy to leave the EU but the bottom line is that the political class don't actually want it, hence why it hasn't been done.

However, the UK is going to have it's referendum by 2017 and if this crisis goes on, or gets worse, then for the UK that will be it, we're outta here.

a reply to: stumason

Think its already passed that point of no return.

Everyone I know is voteing out.


The amount of labour voters I know who voted tory this year just cause millipede was too much of a coward to give them a voice are going to vote out.


People I know who NEVER vote are going to register just to vote out.

Only way UK is staying in the EU is if the scotts screw it up.


Every day longer the UK stays in the EU gives those clowns in brussels another day to do something or say something dumb that will push even more to vote out.

If the EU even exists still by 2017 I doubt many south of the Scottish border will vote in and hopefully by that point even they will be smart enough to see the EU has the dismal failure that it is.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
Assad then brokered a deal between himself & Iran Iraq for a pipeline which was a slap in the face for Qatar which resulted in Saudi bribes to Russia in an attempt to get Putin to change sides. Saudi warned Putin that

whatever regime comes after" Assad, it will be "completely" in Saudi Arabia's hands and will "not sign any agreement allowing any Gulf country to transport its gas across Syria to Europe and compete with Russian gas export

So apart from the myth of a warm water port, it seems the main and probably only reason Russia is going in to help Syria is to secure their economy with the sale of gas to Europe

You seem a little confused - why would the Gulf states want to protect Russian exports?

In actual fact, it was Assad who turned down the pipeline from Qatar through Syria to Turkey and on to Europe to protect Russian exports. The Gulf states would very much like a pipeline direct to Europe, which is part of the reason Qatar and Saudi have been funnelling money and weapons to the Syrian rebels for years.

For all the people blaming "the West", it's actually the Arabs themselves who've caused this problem for their own reasons.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I know it is hard to find on the map but there is also The Netherlands. We were already taking in all kinds of refugees and people are starting to get worried about their own happiness living in this country. The town I live in is preparing a place with tents for 3000! refugees.

Extreem right wing politics are doing good busines and they are waiting for the moment a refugee will commit a terrible crime.

All what is happening was planned a long time ago and decisions were made at place like the bilderberg group. It will not surprise me if it is all part of a larger agenda to create unrest in europe. Maybe we can expect such a mess that the people will beg the governments to come up with drastic solutions. That will be the start of a world government in europe. The people will welcome it...

a reply to: crazyewok

Quite - I know some people who used to be diehard pro-EU types who are wavering and some have flipped. I even used to be open to the EU but now, as long as we get a free trade agreement or rejoin the EFTA then I see no benefit to remaining in the EU whatsoever.

a reply to: zatara

Sorry didn't mean to miss the Netherlands

I agree with the scenario that this has been planned for a long long time but I do wonder with some trepidation who or what will step in should the EU crumble completely.

We have a few suspicious choices in that respect !