Do the wealthy pay lower taxes than the middle class?

a reply to: harvestdog

The real thieving is in the fact that fiscal policy of the Federal Reserve (including the famous "Quantitative Easing" programs) causes our U.S. dollars to experience higher rates of inflation, thus discouraging people from saving their money and devaluing our currency, giving people like you and me less economic mobility.

If you are concerned about them discouraging people from working hard and planning down the road, your real concern should be inflation, not capital gains taxes

a reply to: andy06shake

Granted I said shall we not try to save the Republic, this is a thread about taxes and revenue. Not expenditures. With that, I bet I am on point with you like hard nipples.

a reply to: FamCore

No Sir, my concerns are about both QE^ 1000 and taxes. They are interlocked. Fed policy affects me, as does tax policy. This thread is about the Disinfo of Federal Revenue Contributions.

If I am sitting on an asset looking for a payday, tax code is high on my mind. I cannot stop and smell the roses though, when I hear 50% of us pay the way.

a reply to: harvestdog

Personally i blame your military industrial complex for the current taxes and revenue just as much as those rich 1%ers considering you military expenditures. Projected to account for 54% percent of all federal discretionary spending, a staggering figure of over $598.5 billion doll hairs!

a reply to: xuenchen

Chen Chen, this crap has got to stop.

While those top earners, earning six figures or more, represented only 13.4% of the total number of individual income tax returns reported to the IRS, they contributed nearly three-fourths of the total amount of federal tax revenue from individual filers reported for that year.

I didn't respond earlier because I didn't see it. This tells it like it is.
13.4% paying almost 75%.
Fair enough yet?

a reply to: andy06shake

Yeah we may do a bit of over spending on it, but I never said we didn't. That's not the topic.
At least we are the global Bad-Ass. Nobody else can say that.

Capital gains is low because the money has already been taxed as income. The government is trying to encourage reinvestment of savings. Also, there is risk associated with investing capital. I believe the most you can write off is $3k. So you could say take your $50k inheritance buying some company stock and lose it all and all the government will allow you to do is claim a $3k loss. On the other hand, if you doubled your money, the government would take their 15% cap gains off your earnings.

The uber wealthy earn a lot of their money from capital gains as they have assets being managed. You don't really think someone who is worth $20 million actually has that money sitting in a checking account do you?

On the other hand, wage income is taxed at higher rates. The people who really get screwed by this are you upper middle class professionals. Lawyers, Doctors, managers, etc who might be making say $300-$500k per year, but are hardly considered "rich". Just well off working stiffs who wind up paying 40-50% of their income in taxes between state and federal. These are the people who are really mad about tax rates. They are trying to put money away to have a decent retirement, pay tuition for their kids, etc yet the government is taking half their money. Pimps don't even do that to their hoes...

a reply to: harvestdog

It is shown that the Top 50 pay for the bottom fifty at a 97/3 percentage.

The problem typically with those charts is that it does not show the income to tax ratio. They simply show the amount of money paid uncorrelated to income or tax exemptions or havens which is B$.

the issue with that is that the 1% own more than the rest of us combined. So ofcourse they are going to pay more. However while paying more , they are actually paying a smaller percentage of taxes based on their income.

Wealthiest 1% will soon own more than rest of us combined, Oxfam says

www.cnn.com...

Do you find it odd that while they are complaining about having to pay more taxes than everyone else on one hand , they are so AGAINST the flat rate tax.

You would think if they were really paying more (where it counts) that they would be pushing hard for the flat tax, yet they avoid the flat tax like the plaque.

(Excluding tax havens for simplicity)
Its not the over all amount that matters its the income to tax ratio that matters, hence they don't wan't a flat tax.

The flat tax would make them pay the same amount as everyone and they couldn't hide their money via tax havens.

a reply to: radarloveguy

I'm not saying you are wrong in all of that. I see you have an ax to grind with Waltons.

What does a guy like you, across the pond, think about 50% paying more than the other 50%? And not peanuts, we are talking 97% to 3%? Is there room to squeeze?

a reply to: harvestdog

Wal-Mart Has $76 Billion in Undisclosed Overseas Tax Havens

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. owns more than $76 billion of assets through a web of units in offshore tax havens around the world, though you wouldn’t know it from reading the giant retailer’s annual report.

A new study has found Wal-Mart has at least 78 offshore subsidiaries and branches, more than 30 created since 2009 and none mentioned in U.S. securities filings. Overseas operations have helped the company cut more than $3.5 billion off its income tax bills in the past six years, its annual reports show.

The study, researched by the United Food & Commercial Workers International Union and published Wednesday in a report by Americans for Tax Fairness, found 90 percent of Wal-Mart’s overseas assets are owned by subsidiaries in Luxembourg and the Netherlands, two of the most popular corporate tax havens.

Units in Luxembourg -- where the company has no stores -- reported $1.3 billion in profits between 2010 and 2013 and paid tax at a rate of less than 1 percent, according to the report.

1.3 billion in profits..... with now stores... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

a reply to: harvestdog

In this century and most of the last i completely agree America is the current global bad ass. My own nation among others also held said title throughout history. Have to say it seldom ends well.

When push comes to shove is it not better to accommodate your own population and address your own dilemma rather than attempt to subjugate others under the guise of bringing our own brand of democracy to people and places that simply have not asked for or even require such?

a reply to: harvestdog

The bottom 50% pay only 2.9%. Don't touch my good life decisions.

Exactly, lets make it fair and everyone pay a flat tax based on income. No deductions , no exemptions, etc just a simple 20% tax right of the top of your income .

You make a billion you pay 20% I make 100k I pay 20%.

Are you for the flat tax?
Also why do you think that the upper 1% are so oppose to the flat tax if they are paying for everyones free ride?

Wouldn't the 1% want to pay the same as everyone so they aren't the ones carrying all the burden?

a reply to: interupt42

"You make a billion you pay 20% I make 100k I pay 20%."

Yes but following that logic, and im not saying i don't hold with the concept myself, how much would a loaf of bread cost? A lot would be my guess.

End of the day monies or at least our current reliance on fiat currencies are directly responsible for our current financial meltdown.

And to be honest i dont see that changing anytime soon without the removal of our current political institutions that pretty much support said fiat currencies, or at least our use of them anyway.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes but following that logic, and im not saying i don't hold with the concept myself, how much would a loaf of bread cost? A lot would be my guess.

Why would paying equal taxes make the cost of a bread to go up?
I simply used 20% as an arbitrary value what matters is the concept of a flat tax to make it fair for everyone.

End of the day monies or at least our current reliance on fiat currencies are directly responsible for our current financial meltdown. And to be honest i dont see that changing anytime soon without the removal of our current political institutions that pretty much support said fiat currencies, or at least our use of them anyway.

Agreed, but that is a different problem

a reply to: interupt42

"Why would paying equal taxes make the cost of a bread to go up?"

Inflation down to the fact that everyone is apparently paying a flat tax based on income. Capitalism being what it is something would have to give. Most lightly the cost of living.

"Agreed, but that is a different problem"

True but that does not make the fact less relevant, if anything it reinforces the current problems we face regarding the rich getting richer while the rest of us get bent over.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: harvestdog

The bottom 50% pay only 2.9%. Don't touch my good life decisions.

Exactly, lets make it fair and everyone pay a flat tax based on income. No deductions , no exemptions, etc just a simple 20% tax right of the top of your income .

You make a billion you pay 20% I make 100k I pay 20%.

Are you for the flat tax?
Also why do you think that the upper 1% are so oppose to the flat tax if they are paying for everyones free ride?

Wouldn't the 1% want to pay the same as everyone so they aren't the ones carrying all the burden?

Why do you think the wealthy are against a flat tax? The only people I've heard bemoaning a flat tax are progressive liberals and politicians. The progressives don't want it because the incorrectly believe it will hurt the lower classes more meaning they actually have to start contributing although many flat tax plans have carve outs so the lowest earners don't pay anything.

Politicians are against a flat tax because it takes away their ability to use our convoluted tax code to dole out favors.

a reply to: Edumakated

Why do you think the wealthy are against a flat tax?

Because they would have to pay more and a flat tax hasn't been implemented ,nor have there been any super pacs for flat tax nor are we inundated with bs commercials suggesting a flat tax is a good thing.

Despite what they say their actions suggest that they are not for flat tax.

If they wanted it they have the money , power, and connections to make it happen.

No Billionare is going to want to pay 10-40% of their income in taxes like the rest of us.

Politicians are against a flat tax because it takes away their ability to use our convoluted tax code to dole out favors.

Do you think that those 1% that hire tax specialist aren't using those convoluted tax codes?

What actions are you seeing to suggest they are for a flat tax?

a reply to: harvestdog

Obviously the rich are getting richer , and the poor
have little hope of equality .
Our tax rate here , is around 25% on 52k .
Then you've got GST , and a million other
hidden taxes .

One good idea is to drop income tax , and just tax ALL
bank transactions , even 2% would raise a lot of money ,
and no-one would escape equality .

Pay roll taxes is what funds social security, and medicare.

They are not 'equal' to income tax.

Other taxes such as the alternative minimum tax was created to make the evil rich to 'pay their fair share'.

That right there is double taxation with the third taxation being the medicare capital gains surtax.

a reply to: neo96

What puzzles me is if the super rich are paying more why aren't they fighting tooth and nail for a flat tax?

Surely they have the money, power, and connections to make it happen.