The Question for which Berenstein Skeptics Have No Answer

a reply to: network dude

I'd run far and fast. "they" will be after you soon.

Proof of your limited thinking.

How are you so sure I am not part of "they" already, hmmm?

I am still working my way through the thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned. I was wondering why is the assumption from the stein camp immediately involve some alternate reality/dimension? To me an explanation that would be plausible and fits the main points raised is that it is the result of some type of mass mind control experiment. This explains a lack of any physical proof of "stein" books in existence. This explains why only some people are affected by the phenomenon. This also could explain why the delay in mass "realization".

Imagine if you will as an experiment done to affect or alter memories on a mass scale through something akin to subliminal triggers. The programming was embedded in some form of media only certain people were exposed to. Sometime around 2005 those people are exposed to a trigger.

This is all hyperbole btw but it seems my suggestion is more plausible as a conspiracy theory than something that alters the fabric of reality haha.

Didn't read through all the replies, so I'm sorry if I'm late to the table with this. But what about us folks who remember it at berenstain? I definitely remember itas such and my older sister (now 42) remembers it as I do.

To me this is very obviously an example of blurring together similar things (Not sure what the name of the phenomena is) which then effect what we saw and what we remember.

Berenstain starts out with bE, then rE, and this makes our mindswant to follow the pattern and put tE where tA actually is. That along with the fact that we all are used to seeing many last names of German or Jewish origin with "stein" in them. It seems to me that this qualifies as a very obvious and simple mixup.

There are quite a lot of people who remember it as berenstain but they don't help make the story interesting.

Besides that....why on earth would the mysterious forces that have caused this supposed switcheroo have any interest in doing so? Nothing better to do than to alter the names of kids books to screw with people? It seems to me like this is a commonly overlooked thought when it comes to conspiracy theories like this....what's the damn point?

a reply to: Argus100

My guess if there is any merit to the supposed phenomenon is that it is a test. Perhaps there have been similar test which is why people report other occurrences besides the Berenstain Bears. Altering memories would definitely be of benefit to psychological operations or propaganda.

Come to think of it, til the dispute arose online in recent months, I for one never once heard it pronounced STAIN, ever.

One would think that would be the way most say it, but virtually all people still say it STEEN - even those swearing it was always STAIN.

The NSA archive is most revealing

web.archive.org...://www.nsa.gov/academia/_files/collected_learning/elementary/geometry/geo-room_design.pdf

Persons having first contact with the books/video 2000 and after are likely only going to remember it spelled as STAIN.

Persons who had contact with the books/video well before 2000s yet remember it as STAIN are evidence as to the 'parallel' shift theory.

Too bad ATS doesnt allow votes otherwise it would be interesting to see how man more Steiners than Stainers there are; to me it seems like the majority of those on forums disputing the spelling are firm and certain Steiners.

originally posted by: TombEscaper

Here is the question: Why, or how, is it only now that these things have entered into the mass consciousness? For example, if the skeptics are correct (those who insist that millions simply misread or are “misremembering” the name of the Bears), why was this mistake never an issue throughout the decades of existence of the Berenst_in Bears? Why is there not an overwhelming amount of documented historical evidence showing that there has been a long running “name dilemma” throughout the storied existence of the BB’s? If this is nothing more than a case of mistakenly reading the name, why is it that the masses of people who are so insistent of a “Berenstein” rendering had never been corrected or realized their mistake throughout all the decades?

I have not written off the possibility of some sort of alternate reality jumping going on- it could be.

On the other hand, I don't think this question is unanswerable in the context of a mass misreading.
It is a question of age and generation. There is a specific generation who had these books as kids. We had no reason to look back and talk about them until we became adults interested in nostalgic reviewing of our childhood.
Between being a child and adult (the teen years and young adult years) all we could focus on was future, and didn't waste much time looking back fondly at elements of our early experiences (at least the positive ones- trying to move out of childhood, focusing on the negative experiences was more common, in our search to separate from that stage of life).

So it is many many years later that we started to search out the comforting and pleasant elements of our youth; right when holding onto youth was becoming valuable. Then we saw the anomaly.

I remember having arguments on the playground about the Berenstain bears, with kids who thought it was "stein", and a group of us going back into the class to verify, and it was Berenstain. It had always stuck in my head because it was uncommon and my strange inquisitive nature always fixated on that unfamiliar spelling. I've always been the pain the ass who picks out the tiny detail that is off.

It doesn't seem a great mystery to me how that detail could go on unoticed for a long time- it is not like we had any real reason to be concerned about it.... until we grew up, started to get into paradigm changes, conspiracy and multiverse theories.

Are we serious here ? This question about Berenstein/Berenstain ?

Clearly comes down to lazyness, or at the very least being nonchalant.

Or even, DOG forbid, an innocent error brought forth by the stumbling idiotic masses.

Its happened before.....look at religion.

Just curious. How would I have known this had happened if someone hadn't told me? I haven't ever, as far as I remember, read a BB book as I thought they were idiotic as a child. I don't have children so have no reason to read a BB book or have one around. Wouldn't even, most likely, come across one at the library as I'd be in the Civil War books or some such.

The when isn't the deal. There is no way I could know when this happened as I had hoped to never think about the stupid bears ever again.

For whatever reason, this has happened. Asking for when a supposed timeline shift or whatever happened is ridiculous. There is no way to know when that happened.

I have noticed in relation to this subject that the words to the theme song for Mr Rogers Neighborhood has come up as something misremembered or attributed to this phenomenon.

I wasn't certain about this claim but myself had always remembered the theme song to say "Its a beautiful day in THE neighborhood" as opposed to "THIS neighborhood". Well I also recalled that during the 90s (1997 specifically) there was a compilation cover album of TV theme songs put out by various industrial music artist. The compilation is found here - TV Terror: Felching a Dead Horse

The artist "Numb" had covered the Mr. Rodgers theme and in the following video the words are "THE neighborhood" not "THIS neighborhood"



The music and video may be creepy to some folks. Not sure what to do with this info but I thought I would add it for discussion.

originally posted by: Milah
Imagine how much an authentic book with the original spelling would be worth?

Probably a lot! If I had kids I would want them reading "Berestein," not "-stain."

originally posted by: continuousThunder
having been following this whole thing for a couple of months now, the part that fascinates me most is how difficult it seems to be for so many people to grasp... like for real, people, stop bringing up the physical evidence, we're not talking about the physical evidence, we all know it all says stAin, kindly keep your oh so witty quips about government facilitated book changing teams for your stand up routine where i'm sure you get the reception you so richly deserve.

The question this thread poses is so damn on-point - why have we all only suddenly realised? we've had global communication for a long time, most of us have been here on this very website throwing strange ideas around for many years... how did something so ubiquitous take so long to get recognised?

Thank you for reminding everyone! It seems that skeptics of this subject love to jump onto points or arguments which are to varying extents off-topic to the OP. The whole point of this thread is to ask how skeptics of this subject can overlook the fact that it is only now, recently, that we are all discovering that "The Berenstein Bears" never existed.

Even if they believe it was always -"stain," still, there are logical questions here to consider: A. How only now, and not all these years before? B. How could so many people mistake "-stein" for "-stain" in the first place? Who goes up to someone with the last name "Bain" and says: "Excuse me, Sir, do you pronounce B-A-I-N 'Bain' or 'Bein?'"

We remember it so strongly because a lot of us learned to read and pronounce partially due to these books, or/and through reading and pronouncing them to their children. For many of us, our memories are vivid and without question. But to stay on point with this topic, how could so many of us remember the same specific changes and why only recently? What kind of sense does that make? (And yes, you can counter it by saying how absurd it sounds to you, but many skeptics have already voiced this. The point of this thread is to ask you, the skeptics, how do you overlook this aspect of the phenomenon?)

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
I am still working my way through the thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned. I was wondering why is the assumption from the stein camp immediately involve some alternate reality/dimension? To me an explanation that would be plausible and fits the main points raised is that it is the result of some type of mass mind control experiment. This explains a lack of any physical proof of "stein" books in existence. This explains why only some people are affected by the phenomenon. This also could explain why the delay in mass "realization".

Imagine if you will as an experiment done to affect or alter memories on a mass scale through something akin to subliminal triggers. The programming was embedded in some form of media only certain people were exposed to. Sometime around 2005 those people are exposed to a trigger.

This is all hyperbole btw but it seems my suggestion is more plausible as a conspiracy theory than something that alters the fabric of reality haha.

Pretty much this.
How people can honestly believe there's a timeline shift or alternate universe merging or such, rather than an issue with their mind or memory - however it was caused - makes no sense.

a reply to: Milah

I too remember Charles SchulTz. I read it many Sunday mornings and watched many of the cartoons as a child. I identified with Charlie Brown as a boy, as did a friend of mine (although he was more like Dennis the Menace lol) At one point I watched a documentary on Charles Schultz's life, and my father had a book on him. There was always a 'T.'

Not sure if this was the docu, but listen to how they pronounce his name:

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
Thank you for reminding everyone! It seems that skeptics of this subject love to jump onto points or arguments which are to varying extents off-topic to the OP. The whole point of this thread is to ask how skeptics of this subject can overlook the fact that it is only now, recently, that we are all discovering that "The Berenstein Bears" never existed.

Even if they believe it was always -"stain," still, there are logical questions here to consider: A. How only now, and not all these years before? B. How could so many people mistake "-stein" for "-stain" in the first place? Who goes up to someone with the last name "Bain" and says: "Excuse me, Sir, do you pronounce B-A-I-N 'Bain' or 'Bein?'"

We remember it so strongly because a lot of us learned to read and pronounce partially due to these books, or/and through reading and pronouncing them to their children. For many of us, our memories are vivid and without question. But to stay on point with this topic, how could so many of us remember the same specific changes and why only recently? What kind of sense does that make? (And yes, you can counter it by saying how absurd it sounds to you, but many skeptics have already voiced this. The point of this thread is to ask you, the skeptics, how do you overlook this aspect of the phenomenon?)

Not everyone has responded with ridicule, and some genuine attempts at an addressing the OP have been made:

1, The fact that mistaking Berenstain for Berenstein is a very common linguistic mistake, and that people will say it's Berenstein even when looking at the book cover (a post in the "Very weird theory..." thread addressed this in detail).

2, The idea that it wasn't widely noticed until the internet exploded in popularity, and before that most people likely never had the mistake pointed out to them.

The fact that more plausible explanations exist make this a pretty shaky Mandella Effect in my opinion. Other ones like Tank Boy getting run over, Russia going to the Moon, or people remembering Billy Grahams funeral are better examples in my book as they are way harder to explain away as simple memory errors.

a reply to: Vasteel

Actually, I've read the full thread and I only found pretty flimsy attempts to "explain" the OP's argument. Even if people wouldn't realize that they remembered the spelling and pronunciation wrong until they got older, this should go without saying but, the Berenstein/-ain Bears have been around for a rather long time now and for people of various ages (which has been pointed out in this thread) to suddenly realize that they all (of all ages and nationalities) had it wrong at the same time is quite silly. Some are parents who have read these books to their kids not long before discovering it.

You say it's a common mistake. I was one of the ones on ATS (on the main thread) who posted links to various credible sites which showed the "-stein" spelling, including NASA and various schools and universities. Perhaps you might explain why no articles were written about this seemingly very common problem, even in the academic world, of spelling their name wrong? The reason why I posted such links was to show that some remnants of the old timeline (or whatever it is) still remain. If those were truly misspellings, someone would have noticed.

I find it interesting how the skeptics have jumped all over Steiners on other threads, yet here, when a good question is posed of them, they shy away (or so it would seem.)

Let's be intellectually honest. It's impossible to properly address a subject which you are new to and that sounds absurd to you. You would have to either take it seriously or 'entertain the idea' with intellectual honesty.

In being intellectually honest (you can look at it as a hypothetical philosophical problem on a test if that makes it easier,) how do so many people suddenly remember a name ending with "-stein" and which was pronounced "-steen" was actually "-stain" and pronounced "-stain?" Why would they not have noticed this sooner? The Internet became big in the mid-to-late 90's, from what I remember, so why were some of the earlier sites not asking why they remember a different spelling (and very different pronunciation?) Why only recently is everyone remembering it at the same time?

Problem solve.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: network dude

I'd run far and fast. "they" will be after you soon.

Proof of your limited thinking.

How are you so sure I am not part of "they" already, hmmm?

Because I am head of the Eastern sector. You aren't on my list. In fact, you aren't on any list. I suspect your name has been changed. perhaps just one letter towards the end.

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
a reply to: Milah

I too remember Charles SchulTz. I read it many Sunday mornings and watched many of the cartoons as a child. I identified with Charlie Brown as a boy, as did a friend of mine (although he was more like Dennis the Menace lol) At one point I watched a documentary on Charles Schultz's life, and my father had a book on him. There was always a 'T.'

Not sure if this was the docu, but listen to how they pronounce his name:

If the pronunciation mysteriously changed in this documentary to include a "T", then why didn't the written name "Schulz" change in the same documentary?

Pronouncing "Schulz" with a hard "Z" instead of a soft one will sound as if there is a "T".

originally posted by: Doc Lithium
The Google Trends data is interesting and even somewhat conclusive supporting the possible timeline merge.

1) But wait. We're supposed to be in the "BarenSTAIN" universe now where the name has always been Berenstain and all the physical evidence indicates that. Why wouldn't the Google Trends data have changed along with everything else?

If anything, it should show the opposite. A spike in "BerenSTEIN" searches as all the new Steiners generated by the timeline switch started searching for "BerenSTEIN" instead of "Berenstain."

2) If there was a clear switch in 2005 then why isn't there first hand witness accounts to corroborate that specific date? If the argument is that the timeline switch was "foggy" then Google Trends shouldn't show any definitive spike. You can't have it both ways on that.

a reply to: DelMarvel

You are forgetting about Time Travel. If I went back in time to the date the birth certificate was filled out for Sid Berenstain's father, I could have changed the spelling, thus causing the stein to become stain and it would have changed at the exact moment I left this timeline.

The only other thing you would need to explain is why I didn't just go back to Three rivers Michigan a few days ago and buy a lottery ticket instead of worrying about this silly #.

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2


I too remember Charles SchulTz. I read it many Sunday mornings and watched many of the cartoons as a child. I identified with Charlie Brown as a boy, as did a friend of mine (although he was more like Dennis the Menace lol) At one point I watched a documentary on Charles Schultz's life, and my father had a book on him. There was always a 'T.'

Not sure if this was the docu, but listen to how they pronounce his name:

yea thanks this illustrates:

Charles Shultz (now Schulz) is still pronounced by fans more closely to the way he originally signed/spelled it (Shultz)

likewise

Berenstein Bears (now Berenstain) still pronounced by fans more closely the way it was originally written and the way many of us used to discuss whether to pronounce it like Enstein or Bernstein; never heard a reader mispronounce it as STAIN until the books actually physically transformed!