Religious Liberty?

Would it be possible for the religious to please start using the word PRIVILEGE instead of 'freedoms,' 'rights,' and 'liberty' when suffixing "religious"? That would be great. Thanks.

So often I see people confusing these words.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Politically correct thinking
is rampant in the US
and it stems directly from
the left/liberal/progressives

So what? You don't like how people are THINKING??? Who's intolerant of how others THINK??? Look in the mirror!

If someone does not tow the politically correct
line, they are punished with job loss, death threats,
ugly emails.

It's not about being politically correct, it's about following the LAW. No one gives a crap what others think, but when their ACTIONS start imposing on others' lives, they have a constitutionally-guaranteed right to do something about it.

How about the football owner
who treated all his players equally
paid them without regard to their race
treated them in person without regard to their race.
He makes a private comment to his mistress who
tapes it and releases it to the public.
He is then forced to sell his team.

That is him treating people badly?
No it is persecution for having a politically incorrect thought in private.

I disagree with what he said, but he said it in private and
practically in the bedroom and never treated anyone
in a racist way according to everyone who worked with him.

Yes, the left does insure that incorrect thought
even in private
is punished severely if they find out about it.

originally posted by: Megatronus
This is utter drivel. I'm sorry but this we are so persecuted mind set is getting so old. Maybe if hardcore Christians view points weren't so hateful and intolerant people wouldn't be pushing back. ...

The Christian right are so far removed from the teachings of Jesus its insulting to what he is supposed to stand for.

You failed to see that many times in this thread
I have said that the left/progressives
are doing exactly what they claim the religious right
is doing. That BOTH are wrong.

But no left leaning liberal will ever admit that
they have gone too far with their bullying
like they accuse the far right of doing.

The left thinks they can do no wrong
and they are always right
just as they accuse the right and the religious of doing.
There is no difference
in the ugly treatment that the left gives to those
who dare disagree with them.
Bad part is the media supports and endorses the
bullying by the left while gleefully pointing out
the exact same bad behavior by the religious right.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I think your hatred is getting out of control... for the Democratic Party. This kind of hatred, a "passionate" hatred like you have can make you sick. You need to see about it, you're not hurting anyone but yourself.

I'm not in love with right wing conservatives myself; people like Cruz, Huckabee, Santorum, but my goodness, I don't actually experience "hate" in my heart for them. That is going too far. It's politics. Always has been.

You are doing this all to yourself. Do you not see that? Your distress is off the charts, or at least that's the way you come across. I truly hope it's not as bad as you present here.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: grandmakdw

I think your hatred is getting out of control... for the Democratic Party. This kind of hatred, a "passionate" hatred like you have can make you sick. You need to see about it, you're not hurting anyone but yourself.

I'm not in love with right wing conservatives myself; people like Cruz, Huckabee, Santorum, but my goodness, I don't actually experience "hate" in my heart for them. That is going too far. It's politics. Always has been.

You are doing this all to yourself. Do you not see that? Your distress is off the charts, or at least that's the way you come across. I truly hope it's not as bad as you present here.

Don't worry about me, but thanks for the concern.

I am not angry at home, in person. ATS is simply an internet forum.

I don't know these people, they don't know me.
I love a great debate
I love a great challenge
I love giving as hard back to people as they give to me.

Realize that ATS is not real life,
I don't care about the people really, they are just
online personas who I really don't know except
through what they say on ATS, which they may
or may not really believe.
I know that many people make argument for
the sake of it.

My "anger" is not blood pressure type,
it is an online expression of
repartee and good old give and take.

Do I hate liberals/progressives/Democrats?
No, not as long as they don't try to make
me believe as they do.
Not as long as they abandon this politically correct
persecution of everyone who they don't think
speaks or acts or thinks in the "correct way".
I'm not just speaking religous here.

Do I hate the Democratic Party?
Perhaps, for destroying the country
to the point where we are on the brink
of total economic collapse.
Remember it is a Democratic Administration
that rather than make things better, actually
made things much worse.
To the point where the military is demoralized
and committing suicide because they know
they will be tossed in the trash if they become
ill or heaven forbid get injured in a war that
the Democrats promised to get out of 7 years ago.
For it's abandonment of the black community which
is far worse off now than 7 years ago on every measure.
For it's trashing of the police force and supporting
criminals before getting all the facts and demoralizing
and paralyzing the police forces around the nation
who are now afraid to act for fear of punishment.
I could go on and on.
Over the past 23 years, the Democrats have been
in control for 15 of those years, more than half,
and are so more than half responsible for the demise
of the country and the contempt the rest of the
world has for our country.

But am I sitting here upset, with high blood pressure,
no, this is simply a cognitive exercise, one I really enjoy.

how about the christian right on these boards thinking we are gonna buy the idea that marriage is strictly in the domain or religion and therefore those of us who weren't married in a big religious ceremony should accept the idea that we are no longer married, no, we have a civil union.... but it's not a marriage.
aren't yous kind of invoking a kind of thought police action yourselves here? a rather large one at that, expecting people who have been married for decades or more to suddenly change their the term that they use to define their relationship to something else?

originally posted by: grandmakdw

How about the football owner
who treated all his players equally
paid them without regard to their race
treated them in person without regard to their race.
He makes a private comment to his mistress who
tapes it and releases it to the public.
He is then forced to sell his team.

That is him treating people badly?
No it is persecution for having a politically incorrect thought in private.

Give me a break.

Who was it who drummed him out? Liberals?

It was his fellow billionaire capitalist team owners looking out for the global profits of their multi-billion dollar a year industry that is based on the talents of mostly African Americans.

What do you suppose would happen to a leader of a Christian organization if a secret tape leaked with him making derogatory comments about Christians? What would happen to the campaign of any of the GOP candidates if a secret tape leaked of them making derogatory comments about Christians?

EDIT: You are talking about the NBA, not football by the way.

originally posted by: dawnstar
how about the christian right on these boards thinking we are gonna buy the idea that marriage is strictly in the domain or religion and therefore those of us who weren't married in a big religious ceremony should accept the idea that we are no longer married, no, we have a civil union.... but it's not a marriage.
aren't yous kind of invoking a kind of thought police action yourselves here? a rather large one at that, expecting people who have been married for decades or more to suddenly change their the term that they use to define their relationship to something else?

I never said that, haven't seen anyone else say that on this thread.

I don't care at all if any consenting adults marry.
Marriage is dictated by the state, the government.

I don't care if 3 people decide to marry and go to the government and to
whomever they wish to marry them.
The ceremony outside of the government building
is totally optional and not necessary.

Just don't force people who don't want to
perform the ceremony because they disagree
to perform the ceremony.

There are plenty of people who would happily do it.
If you don't think this has happened,
one wedding venue had to close down because
the person who did the marrying didn't believe in gay marriage
and didn't want to perform the ceremony.

People are married when they go to the state,
get the state's permission to marry
and the state can validate their marriage.
Marriage as we know it is strictly government run
and government sanctioned and private ceremonies
outside of the government
are not necessary to be married at all.

Ceremonies are private and totally optional affairs
and forcing others to participate in your private event
when they don't want to not only brings horrid karma
to the ceremony, it is unnecessary in this day and age
where there are plenty of people willing
to participate and take your money.

It is just being unnecessarily cruel and inflicting your values
on others and punishing them for having values
that don't match yours,
and bring to what should be a happy event, anger and hostility,
and forever taint what should be a happy time with hostile and ugly feelings.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Your hate seems to be blinding you, at what point is anyone taking anyone's Belief away?

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: grandmakdw

How about the football owner
who treated all his players equally
paid them without regard to their race
treated them in person without regard to their race.
He makes a private comment to his mistress who
tapes it and releases it to the public.
He is then forced to sell his team.

That is him treating people badly?
No it is persecution for having a politically incorrect thought in private.

Give me a break.

Who was it who drummed him out? Liberals?

It was his fellow billionaire capitalist team owners looking out for the global profits of their multi-billion dollar a year industry that is based on the talents of mostly African Americans.

What do you suppose would happen to a leader of a Christian organization if a secret tape leaked with him making derogatory comments about Christians? What would happen to the campaign of any of the GOP candidates if a secret tape leaked of them making derogatory comments about Christians?

EDIT: You are talking about the NBA, not football by the way.

Yes it was the liberal media who drummed him out
by playing the tape publicly and making it public.

If a leader of a Christian group or GOP candidate made
a remark in private, even in their bedroom that was
deemed "politically incorrect" by the liberal media -
I expect they'd be metaphorically lynched.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: grandmakdw

Your hate seems to be blinding you, at what point is anyone taking anyone's Belief away?

They are not and I'm starting to realise he right wingers know this them selves. That's why they have to build their arguments on half truths and wilful ignorance of the facts.

Fact, Kym was hired to do a job. FACT, Kym not only refused to do her job, she ordered her subordinates to not do theirs either. FACT, She brought her religion into government. We are supposed to feel sorry for her because she recently started to identify with the backward beliefs of ancient goat herders. Pull the other one.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: grandmakdw

Your hate seems to be blinding you, at what point is anyone taking anyone's Belief away?

I do not have hate,
you are projecting that on me because you disagree
with what I have to say.
I clearly stated earlier that my activity on ATS
is wonderful cognitive exercise for me.
I have no idea if what people write they really
believe or not, I don't know them except by
what they write, and they may or may not be
honest about their beliefs.

Speaking of beliefs, you asked who is trying to
take belief away?
Don't you read ATS, the people who call for
the extermination of all religious people
and all religions is rampant.

Haven't you read the news where soldiers
are being punished for openly expressing
their Christian beliefs?

What the behavior of the left says about what they believe:
You may not think that gay marriage is wrong.
If you express that belief, you will be hounded
you will get hate mail, you will get death threats,
if that expression manages to make it's way into
the public arena.

(remember: I personally
don't give a hoot who marries who as long
as they are all adults, all 5 of them or whatever
not my business; just don't force me to
celebrate any of your personal choices, they
are your personal choice, live and let live,
leave me alone about my choices, I leave
you alone about your choices. Have fun
in bed with 5 people, just don't expect me
to have to openly be thrilled for you.)

What the behavior of the left says about what they believe:
You may not in any way act upon your beliefs
if they hurt someone else's feelings if the
someone is a left approved minority.
If you behave in even the slightest way
that you disapprove of someone else's
lifestyle because of your beliefs.
We have the right and obligation to make
your life a living hell if it is made public
in any way. We have the right to send you
and your family death threats, we have a
right to force your employer to fire you.

What the behavior of the left says about what they believe:
If we don't like what you think is moral
and we find out about it and have proof
and it is made public. We have the right
to make your life a living hell.

This is what I am seeing in action today.
This is wrong, period.

It is wrong for the right to do.
It is wrong for the Christians to do.
It is equally wrong for the left/progressives to do.

originally posted by: Megatronus

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: grandmakdw

Your hate seems to be blinding you, at what point is anyone taking anyone's Belief away?

They are not and I'm starting to realise he right wingers know this them selves. That's why they have to build their arguments on half truths and wilful ignorance of the facts.

Fact, Kym was hired to do a job. FACT, Kym not only refused to do her job, she ordered her subordinates to not do theirs either. FACT, She brought her religion into government. We are supposed to feel sorry for her because she recently started to identify with the backward beliefs of ancient goat herders. Pull the other one.

Interesting, are you in the fifth grade?
Your spelling indicates you might be.
Your cognitive reasoning is close to 7th grade.
Your insults are closer to kindergarten.

Kym was wrong, she should have been reassigned to another job, she should have requested reassignment to another job. It was her job as a government employee to do her job. If it conflicted with her religious beliefs she should ask for reassignment.
Marriage and who gets married is determined by the state now and is solely the purview of the state.

Religious ceremonies are totally optional.
Ceremonies of any kind are totally optional as one
can get married in the courthouse.
Forcing people to participate in optional activities if
they conflict with their personal religious beliefs is wrong.
Hounding them with death threats is wrong.
Hounding them with ugly emails is wrong.
Forcing their business to close or for them to lose
their jobs is wrong.
Ceremonies are private, not government affairs and
should be handled differently than a government
agency.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: grandmakdw

How about the football owner
who treated all his players equally
paid them without regard to their race
treated them in person without regard to their race.
He makes a private comment to his mistress who
tapes it and releases it to the public.
He is then forced to sell his team.

That is him treating people badly?
No it is persecution for having a politically incorrect thought in private.

Give me a break.

Who was it who drummed him out? Liberals?

It was his fellow billionaire capitalist team owners looking out for the global profits of their multi-billion dollar a year industry that is based on the talents of mostly African Americans.

What do you suppose would happen to a leader of a Christian organization if a secret tape leaked with him making derogatory comments about Christians? What would happen to the campaign of any of the GOP candidates if a secret tape leaked of them making derogatory comments about Christians?

EDIT: You are talking about the NBA, not football by the way.

Yes it was the liberal media who drummed him out
by playing the tape publicly and making it public.

Do you realize how many media outlets there are dedicated to sports trying to fill twenty four hours a day with content? It's nearly to the point where a star athlete can't have an unusual bowel movement without it being a topic of debate on the airwaves.

You had an old white billionaire telling his very young mistress on tape to not bring her black boyfriends to his games. In the current television environment it would have a been a political decision to NOT run with that.

You can blame the Kardashian media culture on "liberals" but many wealthy political conservatives are just as much to blame for profiting off it as well.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: grandmakdw

How about the football owner
who treated all his players equally
paid them without regard to their race
treated them in person without regard to their race.
He makes a private comment to his mistress who
tapes it and releases it to the public.
He is then forced to sell his team.

That is him treating people badly?
No it is persecution for having a politically incorrect thought in private.

Give me a break.

Who was it who drummed him out? Liberals?

It was his fellow billionaire capitalist team owners looking out for the global profits of their multi-billion dollar a year industry that is based on the talents of mostly African Americans.

What do you suppose would happen to a leader of a Christian organization if a secret tape leaked with him making derogatory comments about Christians? What would happen to the campaign of any of the GOP candidates if a secret tape leaked of them making derogatory comments about Christians?

EDIT: You are talking about the NBA, not football by the way.

Yes it was the liberal media who drummed him out
by playing the tape publicly and making it public.

Do you realize how many media outlets there are dedicated to sports trying to fill twenty four hours a day with content? It's nearly to the point where a star athlete can't have an unusual bowel movement without it being a topic of debate on the airwaves.

You had an old white billionaire telling his very young mistress on tape to not bring her black boyfriends to his games. In the current television environment it would have a been a political decision to NOT run with that.

You can blame the Kardashian media culture on "liberals" but many wealthy political conservatives are just as much to blame for profiting off it as well.

Come on the Kardashian media culture is
dominated by the left
it is run by the left
It is part and parcel of promoting the left agenda.

Not only that the Kardashian culture
in my personal opinion is morally bankrupt,
but that is my personal opinion and I won't
send anyone death threats over it
I won't send anyone hateful emails over it
I won't try and organize getting a business closed over it
I won't try to get someone fired over it.
I won't do what the left approved and left run media
do gleefully nearly every day in this country.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

What the behavior of the left says about what they believe:
You may not in any way act upon your beliefs
if they hurt someone else's feelings if the
someone is a left approved minority.
If you behave in even the slightest way
that you disapprove of someone else's
lifestyle because of your beliefs.

That pretty much sums up the disagreement here.

You're not merely defending the right to religious belief, you're extending it to negative "behavior" towards others based on religious beliefs.

a reply to: grandmakdw
Kim was in an elected position, she wasn't am employee, and they couldn't just reassign her to another job, although she probably could have gotten away with assigned one of her deputy clerks to issuing marriages licenses and never have had to deal with them personally since she was in a supervisory position.

and I would be surprised if you haven't ran across the posts from some on the right claiming that marriage is strictly a religious thing and all those married without that religious ceremony shouldn't be called marriages but rather civil unions.
sorry but there are many couples that bypassed the religous ceremony and have been married for decades....
they aren't in "civil unions" they are in marriages!

a reply to: grandmakdw

Liberal Media?

Who owns most of the media conglomerates. It's not liberals.....blame them....



www.businessinsider.com...

A little research would go a long way to maintaining a little credibility. You just lost any that you might have had.

www.mondotimes.com...

www.freepress.net...

originally posted by: DelMarvel
originally posted by: grandmakdw

What the behavior of the left says about what they believe:
You may not in any way act upon your beliefs
if they hurt someone else's feelings if the
someone is a left approved minority.
If you behave in even the slightest way
that you disapprove of someone else's
lifestyle because of your beliefs.

.......... ------------------------------------------------
That pretty much sums up the disagreement here.

You're not merely defending the right to religious belief, you're extending it to negative "behavior" towards others based on religious beliefs.

I am extending it to what you perceive
as negative behavior.
Hurting someone's feelings happens,
get over it.

Only someone hung up in a Nanny state
mentality sees hurting someone's feelings
as actionable.

Have you read "The Giver" in that book
no ones feelings are ever hurt, all is equal,
all is fair. It is a leftist utopia.

I'm sorry but when the argument becomes
you may not say or do anything that hurts
other peoples feelings. You have stepped
into very dangerous territory.

Have you never accidentally hurt someones
feelings? Should you lose your job over it,
should you be hounded with death threats
over it, should you get hateful emails over it?
Should the government punish you for it?

That is where we go when we
start into the territory of punishing people
for hurting feelings.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Who is forcing you to celebrate anything? you keep using "Force"

are you talking about the Atheist Soldier who claimed he was Punished for being Atheist?