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originally posted by: nonjudgementalist
So some Nazi Philosopher Kings projected their ideals of how man society should be onto the natural world, that doesn't make the natural world what they describe, or a bad thing to want to protect it from destruction and pollution etc.
Without a state there would be no national health service, no ambulance service, no police etc. Those things are not 'natural', but they are very socialist.
I call myself a socialist. But I reject the idea that I am in any way a fascist.
There are clear distinctions between fascism and socialism
Even though some fascist ideology promotes socialist ideals, it doesnt make all socialism fascist.
Similarly some Libertarians, Capitalis, and Anarchists are fascists,
So what if some elitist, nationalistic, xenophobic, racist, spiritually self centred, and often violent and inhumane totalitarians cared about the planet and the environment? That doesn't make everyone else who cares about and campaigns for the environment guilty by association.
originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: ScepticScot
I would agree but also disagree. Plenty of authoritarian/marxist states have arisen through populist support and democratic processes even the Nazis. The centralization and socialization work better with consent but when that runs out the apparatus is already in place through central planning policies. I look at the EU sure its voluntary until you decide you want to leave. I align with Plato when it comes to democracy it will eventually descend into a tyranny. Left or Right.
originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: greencmp
Good Read !
The fact that environmentalism disregards feeding people in favor of limiting the individual's freedom of action is a two-fer from the totalitarian perspective.
No wonder the NSDAP leadership loved it.
originally posted by: cavtrooper7
To be clear NAZIS were capable of good ideas,quite a few.
LEADERSHIP failed them.
Can't keep kicking Germans and not give them their due.
An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
In many ways the Volkish movement was the precursor to the Hippies and was quite Liberal with regards to Naturism and natural philosophy, being also influenced by Theosophy there were a lot of Hindu sentiments with regards to environmentalism, they were looking towards a new way of living and a re-examination of religion given it's decline at that time.
As a revolutionary party the NSDAP was open to new and radical approaches, not all of it's influences were bad by any means, it's worst influences were of course pseudo-Roman imperialism and Fascism combined with Prussian militarism and the baby ended up getting thrown out with the bathwater...but happily it didn't die.
originally posted by: daskakik
originally posted by: greencmp
We have had local schooling for a very long time but, it was the federal consolidation that has produced the monster that we have before us.
So, it still doesn't make it worse than countries where education is a personal choice.
Even local government may not have had much of a role in most schools until the 20th century.
That means that there are 80 years in between which you don't seem to have a problem with.
Green thinking was not a side-line for the Nazis. The idealisation of nature and the organic, the nostalgia for the Middle Ages, the anti-capitalism, the hatred of bankers, the hatred of cities and industry, the idealisation of peasant life … all this defined their poisonous ideology. It was the green attempt of the Nazis to recreate a peasant society which led them to invade Poland in search of ‘living space’. It was their green nostalgia for the Middle Ages which led to their ‘blood and soil’ racist ideology. It was their green anti-capitalism and loathing of bankers which led them to hate Jewish people. It was their green rejection of the Judeo-Christian tradition and of the Enlightenment and its humanist values, and their green return to pagan animal-worship - their idealisation of pre-civilised barbarism as more ‘authentic’ - that led to them to treat humans as worthless creatures with no more claim on our sympathies than viruses and pests. Green ideology was at the core of National Socialism. When we wonder what diseased thinking could motivate people to turn on the gas taps at Auschwitz, this is where we must look.
Modern Leftists believe in socialism.
Modern Leftists believe in environmental issues.