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NAZI GREENS - An Inconvenient History • Martin Durkin

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posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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We have made some progress here on ATS of late regarding the nature of socialism and its various incarnations in recent history. I hope that the myth of fascism not being socialism has been laid to rest.

This essay synthesizes many of the conclusions we ourselves have independently arrived at here into a coherent presentation of the similarities between the modern green agenda and the core beliefs of national socialism and their origins in post-feudal German history.

Many phrases and concepts of national socialism are so consistent with those of environmentalists as to make even the most dedicated eco-warriors check their jumpsuits for hooked crosses. Seriously, check the tags folks, who knows what the origins of those raiments are!

I think the slogan that jumped out at me the most was this one from Göring:

“Ask the trees, they will teach you how to become National Socialists!”

NAZI GREENS • Martin Durkin


The purpose of exploring Nazi environmentalism is not just to upset the greens. If environmentalism were a curious but peripheral aspect of National Socialism, it would be of no real historical interest. Environmentalists could be forgiven for saying, Ah well, it just goes to show, there’s a little bit of good in the worst of us. But environmentalist ideology was not an accidental, optional-extra to National Socialism. As we shall see, green ideas were at the core of Nazi thinking. The German Volk and Nazi movements marched beneath the banners of ‘Nature’ and the ‘organic’. However, what follows here is not simply a potted history of Nazi environmentalism. It is, at the same time, a brief history of early environmentalism writ large. As will become clear, it is not so easy to draw a line between two types of green thinking.
To understand why green ideology emerged at all, and why it happened in Germany, we need to go back in time, a few centuries, to set the scene. We have described elsewhere on this blog (The Greens: A Warning from History), the transition from feudal society to capitalism. To the greens this great historical change is more or less the source of all evil. In Germany, it was a process which began, falteringly, in the 13th Century.


It was a bureaucratic, administrative class which identified with its feudal masters and, as Weber describes brilliantly, embraced the notion of a society based on status rather than free market forces. A class, as we have seen from Hegel, which would try to portray itself as selfless, and stuffed with higher purpose, but which of course had (and has) a very clearly defined self-interest, and world-view to match. And here, in passing, let us underline a point which should be more than obvious. The modern State did not arise in or order to ‘curb the cruelties’ of capitalism. Far from it. It arose specifically to preserve the privileges of the existing ruling classes against the democratic, liberating, enriching and levelling forces of capitalism.


This feudal anti-capitalist reaction, this anti-capitalism of the upper classes, this anti-capitalism from above, was not a phenomenon limited to Germany. It happened all over Europe and beyond. (We even see echoes of it in the American Civil War, in the politics of the reactionary South.) Even England, the pioneer of capitalism, produced reactionary anti-capitalists like Thomas More, Thomas Malthus and others. But in England, such men were outsiders. In thrusting capitalistic, liberal England, the embittered grumbling of men like Malthus could not compete with the enlightened, thrilling, progressive ideas of men like Adam Smith and David Ricardo.


edit on Sun Sep 27 2015 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed overly long quote IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS




posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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Fascism is Socialism. Hitler, was fascinated with Mussolini..
You can thank him for the Ideology..

Anyhow I do get your point thou.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 10:52 AM
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Something I have not considered often is this association however it seems perfectly natural


The obvious ties between the new age movement and environmentalism are the first indicator. The Nazis were the radical hippies of their time haha. Seriously though it does appear that all of the same thoughts/forces that gave rise to these extreme ideals in the beginning of the last century have been pushed on society again. The rise in spiritualism(ghost hunters), environmentalism and new age (earth worship) movements, eugenics/transhumanism. The only thing missing is crippling economic depression, fervent nationalism, and a romantic longing for an idealized past (hipsters seem to be in a beginning phase of embodying this) and those are all right around the corner.

Sorry for straying a bit there but your OP sent my mind down a rabbit trail. I would say the main connection between this radical environmentalism at present and the green fascism of the nazi past would be the new age/neo-pagan overlap. The reason these ideas manifest themselves so well under authoritarian states is because they build their rhetoric and justification for micromanagment of people and resources through eugenics programs from these beliefs.

Strangely though the new age component can be replaced with dialectical materialism ( and has been in the past) to achieve the same result. Sorry for the early morning ramblings the coffee is still doing its job



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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So some Nazi Philosopher Kings projected their ideals of how man society should be onto the natural world, that doesn't make the natural world what they describe, or a bad thing to want to protect it from destruction and pollution etc.

Without a state there would be no national health service, no ambulance service, no police etc. Those things are not 'natural', but they are very socialist.

I call myself a socialist. But I reject the idea that I am in any way a fascist. There are clear distinctions between fascism and socialism Even though some fascist ideology promotes socialist ideals, it doesnt make all socialism fascist. Similarly some Libertarians, Capitalis, and Anarchists are fascists, but that doesn't make those ideologies fascist.

So what if some elitist, nationalistic, xenophobic, racist, spiritually self centred, and often violent and inhumane totalitarians cared about the planet and the environment? That doesn't make everyone else who cares about and campaigns for the environment guilty by association.


The idea that is does is dangerohsly absurd, and people who even consider it should be ashamed of themselves.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: greencmp

So based on selected quotes on the virtues of nature we should believe that Nazism and Environmentalism are comparable?

Hitler also said "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative". Does that mean Nazism is the same as libertarianism.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: greencmp

So based on selected quotes on the virtues of nature we should believe that Nazism and Environmentalism are comparable?

Hitler also said "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative". Does that mean Nazism is the same as libertarianism.


That was only meant for Party Members.

And probably only temporary.




posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

So would you agree that selective use of evidence to suggest that the Nazi Party is comparable to Environmentalism is every bit as nonsensical as to compare Nazism with libertarianism?



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:11 AM
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In many ways the Volkish movement was the precursor to the Hippies and was quite Liberal with regards to Naturism and natural philosophy, being also influenced by Theosophy there were a lot of Hindu sentiments with regards to environmentalism, they were looking towards a new way of living and a re-examination of religion given it's decline at that time.

As a revolutionary party the NSDAP was open to new and radical approaches, not all of it's influences were bad by any means, it's worst influences were of course pseudo-Roman imperialism and Fascism combined with Prussian militarism and the baby ended up getting thrown out with the bathwater...but happily it didn't die.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

National socialism specifically despised and opposed liberalism (libertarianism in the modern vernacular).

Its opposition to international Marxism (communism) is the source of the confusion for most people. The international Marxists were opposed to nationalism so that was the source of the conflict, not the underlying socialist philosophy.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

An interesting question came up in the comments about "millenarianism", a term I have only just come across.



Excellent and thought-provoking essay!

I am a recovering neo-Malthusian, and having also had the inevitable adolescent flirtation with Marxism (and a minor in Anthropology), I would like to suggest another element that adds to the discussion: millenarianism.

There are only a few studies of environmentalism as a millenarian movement, but it can certainly be characterised as one — a reaction to rapid social change that is perceived as leading to inevitable catastrophe, which only the chosen will survive - followed by the 'sustainable society', true communism, 1000 year Reich, or whatever.

I must say that I have discussed this theme a bit in a book ('Science and Public Policy: The Virtuous Corruption of Virtual Environmental Science') and concluded that it is possible to adhere to a modest concern for environmental protection (who's not in favour of a decent environment?), but your essay has led me to at least reconsider this.

You might add to this essay a reference to Robert Proctor's excellent book 'The Nazi War on Cancer' which very much supports your thesis (but also my position) with some good history, good analysis and some great examples – they had an organic garden at Dachau! Rachel Carson's mentor Wilhelm Hueper was a closet Nazi (wrote a fawning letter), etc.

Aynsley Kellow



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:23 AM
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The compatibility lies in the origins of the thought either in dialectical materialism or new age neo paganism. Like I stated above the rhetoric is often laid using these "pro" life intentions but generally turn into an authoritarian nightmare. It is the reason some people are completely afraid of a system like one proposed by the Venus Project. It is good intentioned authoritarian control no matter how you spin it.

The OP mentions Malthus which gave us the Malthusian catastrophe and the whole premise of the overpopulation myth. This is a driving component of environmentalist thought. This is a stated goal of what some see as the NWO. The ties with the actual Nazis have been there all along but leftist envrionmentalism has put on blinders to this. Just trace back the to the secretive groups like the Thule society, Vril, etc and you can see some of these same people or people influenced by these ideas went on to create the modern new age movement complete with alien overlords
. You have neo druids and wiccans who were influenced by people like Gardner who himself was influenced by Crowley( Who had ties with Nazi occultist) through the OTO. These same people were shaping the thoughts of the current movement before, during and after the Nazis. From their ideas we get the hippie counter culture which chose either A. New Age influenced environmentalism or B. Dialectical materialism influenced environmentalism. Fascism or Authoritarian Socialism. The results are the same. The environment is just used as a one of the justifications for the policies set in place by authoritarian regimes. It is a way to lure in well intentioned followers or useful idiots.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: xuenchen

So would you agree that selective use of evidence to suggest that the Nazi Party is comparable to Environmentalism is every bit as nonsensical as to compare Nazism with libertarianism?


Nazism/Fascism is no where near Libertarian.

The more Authoritarian polices necessary, the further Left.

It's really easy to get.




posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: xuenchen

So would you agree that selective use of evidence to suggest that the Nazi Party is comparable to Environmentalism is every bit as nonsensical as to compare Nazism with libertarianism?


Nazism/Fascism is no where near Libertarian.

The more Authoritarian polices necessary, the further Left.

It's really easy to get.




I agree Nazism is nothing like Libertarianism (apart from adherents looking for simple solutions to complex problems) . The point is that claiming Nazism and Environmentalism are comparable based on a few quotes is as absurd as making a comparison between Nazism and Libertarianism.
Also authoritarianism can be right wing or left wing.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: greencmp

Yes Nazism is nothing like liberalism or Libertarianism. Just like it is nothing like environmentalism.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

Yes, now that the economic argument for socialism and its policies have been demonstrably refuted, the only recourse is to focus on environmentalism as the vector to totalitarianism.

There are many such vectors as you correctly point out and this new millenarianism revelation, if true, is a deeply disturbing trend.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: NihilistSanta

Yes, now that the economic argument for socialism and its policies have been demonstrably refuted, the only recourse is to focus on environmentalism as the vector to totalitarianism.

There are many such vectors as you correctly point out and this new millenarianism revelation, if true, is a deeply disturbing trend.


Sorry at what point was economic argument for socialism demonstrably refuted?



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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Decades ago when I was in college, i was assigned to read an essay that discussed the environmental policies and thought dynamics of environmental considerations during the Nazi Regime. Although I cannot remember the author of that work nor the name of the essay in question, I was startled to discover it bore many similarities to my own perspectives on the importance of maintaining the balance of a natural ecosystem.

Have I met rabid environmentalists over the years? Yes. I have. Some care more about the life of a tree than they do a human being, and I will dispense with the manifestations of their abject and imbalanced lunacy. But are all persons who ascribe to a sound environmental practice irrational and blinded to an insane way of managing these types of ideologies and beliefs?

No. Of course not.

To discount the values of sustainable and integrated environmental policy simply because of a parallel to the ideas concerning such and the Nazi Regime is a bit of a misnomer and hyperbole, unless or course, you are referring to those rabid and blind adherents exclusively.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

By the failure of every socialism ever as well as the coming failures of the "third way" experiments such as scandinavia.

The only argument left for socialists is geo-ecological and they are putting their big guns on deck for the seige.
edit on 27-9-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: ScepticScot

By the failure of every socialism ever as well as the coming failures of the "third way" experiments such as scandinavia.

The only argument left for socialists is geo-ecological and they are putting there big guns on deck for the seige.


Every country in the developed world is to some degree socialist. The countries with the highest standard of living and or best quality of life are generally more socialist.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: greencmp
I hope that the myth of fascism not being socialism has been laid to rest.

Nope.


This essay synthesizes many of the conclusions we ourselves have independently arrived at here into a coherent presentation of the similarities between the modern green agenda and the core beliefs of national socialism and their origins in post-feudal German history.

All methods of control have something in common. Doesn't mean that they are all the same. Every system except for Anarchy can be lumped together if that is the criteria.




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