Turning our backs on Islam.

There is a hell of a lot of liars on ATS nowadays.

You smell that....?....



Yeah...

That's horse s#.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I really do respect and appreciate your honestly I might 100% disagree with you on it but at least your honest and open about it.

You are kind. Thank you. And I have no problem with you disagreeing. Somewhere in the back of my mind...I know you speak good things and we should all probably strive towards unity and tolerance...it is the only way to go forward.

But sadly...I'm burdened by prejudice...maybe some if it is warranted, some is not. I think you come off from a place of comfort...living in a western world country...that has a majority of inhabitants "westerners". Muslims that immigrated need to adapt to the west. Some do it better...some dont...but the point is...what I'm thinking (and I may be wrong)...if in some parallel universe...Muslims were the majority in UK...would UK be the country you live in today...or would it resemble some middle eastern country like..Pakistan, Afghanistan or Saudi...or Iran even ? These are all countries that have 90% + Muslim population.

Would you as a westerner...want to live in that UK ?

I believe it is as much culture as religion. When we are born we are essentially very similar human beings with slight variances. When you are brainwashed to a particular religion or culture, often at later stages in life you are very different human than someone in another culture and or religion.

I think there is a point of no return in life when if you have been taught to be intolerant and that you must achieve control over the rest of humanity that your brain can never recover and become tolerant and understanding of others.

Islam in certain flavors and cultures spoils its people from ever being capable of living peacefully with others including their own women, their own brothers.

Until these cultures and civilizations evolve to teach tolerance, freedom and respect for others there will be no peace.

Not all "flavors" of Islam focus on the intolerant parts of the religion and thus those followers are tolerant and quite normal as normal goes for humans beings.

Having said all that every society, even can have extremist behaviors in people as well. It is just that their are certain "flavors" of Islam in certain cultures that are in our modern times creating Humans that are intolerant, even ignorant of the greater good of humanity.

It is this that must be changed to change humanity for the better.

a reply to: wantsome

If being called an infidel just meant unbeliever, it would be different. But the Wiki says this about the Islam meaning of Infidel: en.wikipedia.org...

The usage of kafir, and related words with root k-f-r for infidel and unbelievers is very common in the Qur'an and Hadith.[24] Under Islam, an infidel (kafir) is considered unclean and ritually impure (najasat).[33] Many scholars claim Islam's original sources (Qur'an and Hadith) and derived sources (Ijma, Qiyas and Qitabs) speak of violence against infidel unbelievers living in Dar al-Harb - countries targeted for war because they refused to submit to Islam,[34] as a matter of religious duty of the Muslim community (fard ala'l kifāya).[33] Other scholars disagree.[35][36] Yet other scholars refer to the historical sequence of the verses, suggesting verses from early Meccan period recommend waiting and living apart from unbelievers. Later recited verses, such as Surah 2:191 discuss violence against k-f-r, widely translated as infidel and unbelievers.[22][33]

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

— Qur'an, [Quran 2:191]

Last week our customs found hundreds of fake documents which were mailed to immigrants and it seems its concerning most countries in EU.
As we speak not all are qualified and there are a lot of those economic "refugees" among them.

People smugglers using Facebook to sell fake Syrian passports to economic migrants Genuine Syrian refugees angry that people from other countries are taking advantage of their plight to get into Europe

Migrants from north Africa and the Middle East are using fake Syrian passports bought via Facebook to pose as refugees and enter Europe, The Telegraph can disclose.

Thousands of fraudulent documents are in circulation in Turkey and other migration routes into the EU, which the head of Europe’s border police described as a “windfall” for economic migrants.

An undercover Telegraph reporter posing as an Egyptian migrant called a number left on an Arabic language Facebook site and spoke to a people-smuggler who offered to arrange fake Syrian documents for £1,000, with passage from Turkey to Greece costing another £800.

Telegraph

We had a problem Sweden not registring immigrants instead giving them free bus rides to our country, so we had to take stronger approach in our borders, every immigrant will be checked and registered, now there are people who wants to get back to Sweden.. we were not what they wanted.. Too cold country, no food ( as some complained ) no Tea etc etc...
Don´t come to Finland as Finland can´t support you, we already have more than 400 000 unemployed people among 5 million people and our social structure is already going down and we are facing major cuts to our system, even if we were among top 5 countries we have paid dearly being part of EU and it has not been a success story. We can´t support ourselves... how can we support you ? We are allready one of the most taxed countries in the World.

After 9-11, a friend of mine went to the store and saw a Muslim clerk he had seen around the store in the past, and when the man held his gaze, said friend greeted him, "Hey, how's it going?" The man's eyes welled up and he began to cry. My friend asked what was wrong. The man replied, "It's just that you're the first person to treat me like a human being all week."

Some of the refugees are going to be dangerous, yes. Some Muslims hold beliefs with which I happen to disagree, yes. Both of those statements are true of any group of human beings on Earth, though, and many of them are currently suffering as well. Therefore we would do well, in my opinion, to not allow vigilance, caution, and prudence to become excuses for indifference and callousness.

Just my two cents. Peace.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: wantsome

At first I treated them as any other immigrant but my opinion has changed after being called a infidel by a 5 year old kid.

So he called you a unbeliever then you changed your whole view of Islam based on one word from a child's mouth.

I mean you are a Infidel or a Kafir, its not a insult really its a statement of fact.

THAT is the attitude that is the issue. Caling non muslims Kafirs even if they believe in Jesus and God. it IS a insult and is only Fact to the Muslim world. People who believe in Jesus and god are people of the book and to call them kafir is hypocritical of them If they believe in the quran so very much.

Two flowers growing peacefully in a sunny meadow are suddenly enveloped by a swarm of locust. One flower wants to pull up roots and flee, the other starts preaching tolerance. Guess what happens...

Personally, when the religions main theme is usual threats with a broad definition of infidels, it kind of hard not to. A lot of others religions do hate Muslums you know, not only Christianity. As for the ISIS thing, I can only hope the world leaders do something soon, while they get paid hourly.

It a lot like the whole black and white issues Americas having, where both sides have common stereotypical perceptions that where both sides could be easily offended. Hell, my view of this racial crap that goes on ATS tells me, these people love to hate each other...Because their lives are meaninglessness to them, they need each other, because its the only passion they will ever attain.

Plus, can't forget them Chineses, pulling their Ninjitsu(which is Japanese) when the stereotypes clash, and they claim your guys oil.

a reply to: dollukka

I never knew things were that bad in Finland. Further down south in Croatia...4 000 000 people...350 000 unemployed...almost 10 %. 65 000 migrants entered our borders in last 2 weeks. Many went up north from there...but since the migration path is still not open to those migrants that want to go to Germany...I'm guessing some will stay a while.

I guess we're in a similar boat...

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
There is a hell of a lot of liars on ATS nowadays.

You smell that....?....



Yeah...

That's horse s#.

Well...

You know what they say: He who smelled it, dealt it!

a reply to: johnwick

Can't say I agree with your tone. Being humane and tolerant is not being irrational.

However, being tolerant is not always in our own best interest. Still...it's something we should in reality strive for.

If we all start being intolerant about each others differences...there would be hell on Earth.

a reply to: lakesidepark

And yet no postings of any footage or articles that show the celebrations in the streets of Tel Aviv like there were in Lebanon and in Iran and Jordan and Egypt and Afganistan and Pakistan?

As pro Israel as the MSM is here in America even if there were celebrations in Tel Aviv they would never show it. And show the celebrations that took place in those nations because in Iran they had a moment of silence after 9/11.

Although, I am quite sure that there was a silent minority of Jews that were happy that the U.S. could now suffer the radicalism and terrorism that they have fought for years, and now join them in the fight instead of sitting on the sidelines.

Yes one of them was the Prime Minister who said 9/11 was a good thing.

originally posted by: wantsome
Most Muslims believe in sharia law over the constitution. To them it's gods law over mans law. I have no sympathy for them they don't respect the countries they migrate to and they don't assimilate to other cultures. I have a mosque at the end of my street and I've met many Muslims first hand. At first I treated them as any other immigrant but my opinion has changed after being called a infidel by a 5 year old kid.

Shame you let a five year old kid change your opinion.

I am a current student of Islamic Fiq ( Sharia law) and i can tell you with certainty that its been misunderstood just like Islam . extremist have their own interpretation/ideology of islamic fig . and this involves extrme acts counter to what Islam teaches .

Its really sad to me that people throw this word SHARIA LAW around as if they know all about it. When the reality is that its more complicated then US law and takes years to understand.

I would also like to add that as a Ruling of sharia law , Muslims MUST obey the laws of any country they are in . Trying to establish Sharia law in a county that does not suport it is counter to Islam and Sharia .

Simply put if Muslims want to live by Sharia they need to move to a country that supports it.

I am Muslim btw. And I have no problem at all honoring and living by the constitution. In fact I would defend and honor it if the time ever came .

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

BUT it 's YOUR ass because of 106K!
WE CAN'T TELL YOU APART!
I don't WANT ISLAM dead but it won't take over. we'll slaughter more when they try.(MY idiotic government policies NOT withstanding on it)
ISLAM MUST KILL its own or pay a horrible price ,fence sitting is going to get MORE killed.
Unless of course you want to war to go global, if so then keep watching and enjoy.

Love is a balance. Too much mercy and there is no true justice.

Out of the desire to show love, we sometimes make wrong choices and the right kind of discrimination is ignored. Is it loving to open the doors to your home and expose your family to possible harm? No, especially when the culture you are opening your home up to has proven to be mostly incompatible with yours.

It is unloving and unfair to the people at home to allow another culture to swarm into your home knowing they have no desire to assimilate culturally, much less in any other way.

Feed, cloth, and provide shelter for the refugees as best you can, but careful calculated cautious immigration is absolutely required. Politicians and others that allow a flood of these people into our home is not love.

I am very conflicted my self about the followers of the Quran.

From my point of view there are parts in the Quran that is a religion of Peace. Then there is the parts that is duality hate against the ones who will not bend to Muhammad and his followers when they push. That duality hate darkness is the same darkness that Nazism, Zionism, racism and homophobia is based on.

Not the only duality hate speech in religious books. Paul has his own manipulations where he pushes people to bend to his Church to find salvation. Zionism uses the old testament in the same way.

This Duality hate was used by both Muslim and Christians to white wash the Imperialistic conquest by the Muslim and the counter crusades by the Christians.

For me to be able to be tolerant of the whole Quran the hate speech must go from it.

Quote by Karl Popper:

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

But that do not mean the real Syrian refuges should not be helped regardless of religion if they can behave like secular tolerant humans.

There is so many wrongs with the migration crisis that I do not like:
I do not like that Turkey is creating the migration crisis to push change in Syria.
I do not like that a large part of economic migrators are called refugees when they clearly are not.

On a collective level I think Islam have created it's own karma backlash. Dualistic hate breeds the mirror back in the end to the source of the hate. Feels sad for the innocent souls on all sides who are a victim to this duality insanity.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Wow first two responses are the typical stuff. They can't mix with they west even though millions do every day and they all want sharia law. People don't care apparently.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

they are viewed as infidels not worthy of equality to Muslims
or consideration by Muslims as fully equal or as fully human.

THAT is a LETHAL assumption once they set foot outside their own country.
Those who can't learn that will either be imprisoned or die and that isn't hate,it is THEIR hate that forments their hostile enemies who are more advanced to rise against ALL.
It isn't how we want it. IT'S HOW THEY want it.