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MH 17 from another perspective

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posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:48 AM
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AT 13:OO, a pilot with thirty years experience reviews internet photos and, like many others, postulates the shoot down by a jet with a missile first and, when that failed to bring the jet down, using guns on the cockpit to finish the jet off.

That particular scenario right there explains the boom sounds the people on the ground hear (Air to air missile explosion) which caused them to look up and see the jet in proximity with the airliner, prior to it being finished with cannon fire.

There was some period of time between the air to air missile and the eventual disabling of the plane by targeting the cockpit. During that interval is when witnesses say they saw both planes overhead, the military jet was seen at times in trail and in another report, below the airliner.

Edit: Reposting third documentary from last page


edit on 27-9-2015 by intrptr because: YouTube

edit on 27-9-2015 by intrptr because: clarification




posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: intrptr




Yes you do, you just don't actually say it when it comes to the US, and always allude to Russia being the culprit.


Can you prove they aren't the culprit?



Which part, the blaming of Russia for everything that happens in Ukraine while omitting US complicity for supporting a coup in Kiev?


The coupe that never was.

You seem to forget the fact that Yanukovych was being impeached and fled to keep that from happening...of course it is easier to blame the US than it is to actually learning the facts.

The US had nothing to do with the protests as the people of Ukraine were duped and lied to by their president concerning the EU agreement he promised to sign...again what do facts matter when you can just blame the US for it.



NATO Arming, advising and funding the worst elements in that nation to subvert, burn and murder innocent people in the Capital, Eastern parts of that country, the BBQ in Odessa and the intentional downing of MH17?


Again I see the actual facts don't matter.

NATO hasn't sent arms, or advisors there to help...independent NATO countries may have that doesn't mean NATO did.

I see talking actual facts with you don't matter because you are just going to be anti whatever is said, and the funniest thing is you can never back your claims.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

They also do a live test of the hot suspect, the SU25 aircraft that supposedly has a max altitude of 7000m and it tops out at 10,800 - so the Russians aren't lying about that one.

Right at the end they talk about how there was an Italian Itavai jet shot down by the good old US, thinking it was Gadaffis plane. The US managed to bury the truth for ten whole years.

But hey, RT is only a poor quality source of Russian propaganda apparently, so I should not believe a thing they say

edit on 27-9-2015 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h


Can you prove they aren't the culprit?



Can you prove that they are?

Both lines of investigation (BUK vs SU25) provide compelling evidence if you look at everything with an open mind.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


Again go outside on a clear day and tell me how many planes you see flying above you…

I hear them, then look up. Unless you are deaf they are audible at cruising altitude. Once spotted, the type of jet is readily apparent if its a multi engine or a fast mover, once sound and appearance (including contrail) are taken into consideration. Im a trained observer, obviously you aren't.


but feel free to show how they saw these planes at that height, and identified the smaller SU 25 that supposedly did this?

You didn't watch the video, either. I reposted it for denialists at the top of this page. You can review it to find the guy who hears afterburner booms and looks up to se a "SU25 standing on its tail climbing. He has binocs which he uses and "could have read the tail number".



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


Again I see the actual facts don't matter.

NATO hasn't sent arms, or advisors there to help…independent NATO countries may have that doesn't mean NATO did.

Actual 'facts' of the matter…

US congress passes bill to arm Ukraine

I just pointed out one inconsistency with your omission of "facts". Try and stay on topic, the subject is the video, the OP has asked us in the thread to discuss it, not make stuff up.
edit on 27-9-2015 by intrptr because: link



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:33 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
You can review it to find the guy who hears afterburner booms and looks up to se a "SU25 standing on its tail climbing. He has binocs which he uses and "could have read the tail number".


You can tell straight away that he is making things up if he believes that Su-25s are fitted with afterburners (reheat). They have two non-afterburning engines. Either he was paid to invent the story or he is deliberately lying for his own ends.
edit on 27/9/2015 by tommyjo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

I've watched hundreds of afterburner takeoffs and they don't boom. They make the engine louder but the only time they boom is when there's an engine failure while they're lit. Even if the Su-25 had afterburners they wouldn't have made a boom.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: markosity1973

Noted the altitude the SU 25 is capable of. Its not approved, but pilots can accomplish it under certain circumstance, further proof of preplanning. Later they could say, it wan't an SU25, they can't fly that high!

See how they do that?

At 16:58 that german pilot also relates how the western propaganda tells the truth but takes it out of context.

He cites Hillary… damn, go figure. "The plane was shot down by Russian weapons", she says.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:46 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

I've watched hundreds of afterburner takeoffs and they don't boom. They make the engine louder but the only time they boom is when there's an engine failure while they're lit. Even if the Su-25 had afterburners they wouldn't have made a boom.


No doubt they will change the type to the Su-27 and trot out the fake satellite image! They story will change to a coordinated attack by "booming" Su-27 and Su-25.


The guy also claims that he could have read the tail number! So why, if his binoculars were so good, didn't he read the large bort number under the cockpit?


edit on 27/9/2015 by tommyjo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:48 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

I've watched hundreds of afterburner takeoffs and they don't boom. They make the engine louder but the only time they boom is when there's an engine failure while they're lit. Even if the Su-25 had afterburners they wouldn't have made a boom.


The guy wasn't an expert obviously, and the translation bears that out. A boom, booming sounds, whatever. nitpick…Whats apparent is that neither does booming mean a missile warhead detonation, which is what you are really saying without saying it…



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: markosity1973

Noted the altitude the SU 25 is capable of. Its not approved, but pilots can accomplish it under certain circumstance, further proof of preplanning. Later they could say, it wan't an SU25, they can't fly that high!



Yeah it must have been those two afterburning engines the Ukrainians secretly fitted to the Su-25. No doubt the Ukrainian mechanic who overheard the Su-25 pilot back at base will be claiming that the new engines were fitted



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Now you know what I'm not saying. Damn you do know everything!

No it doesn't translate. That sound wouldn't have been heard from any Su-25, because, as pointed out twice, they don't have afterburners to make a loud noise like he is claiming to have heard. They would have sounded like normal engine noise if heard at all.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:20 AM
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As usual, off topic, page sliding… attacking the source (RT) and member content instead of addressing the video, like the OP asked.

Ho hummm…


They would have sounded like normal engine noise if heard at all.

You were there of course.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

I don't have to be to know that engines don't suddenly make a roaring or booming sound when they're not capable of afterburner operation. Unless you're going to claim that Russian engines operate differently than Western engines.

Funny that people that weren't there that agree with you are right, and experts and everyone else are [insert whatever tag here].



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: tommyjo


Yeah it must have been those two afterburning engines the Ukrainians secretly fitted to the Su-25. No doubt the Ukrainian mechanic who overheard the Su-25 pilot back at base will be claiming that the new engines were fitted

Who said anything about afterburners? Oh, you made that up, too.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Right now its the old military jet engines aren't loud ploy…

Do you mind meld yourself like this regular or is this something new?



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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Interesting in the video, some investigators were brought to Kiev and spent a whole month in town without visiting the crash site. The authorities told them it was unsafe to go out there. Near the end, also mentioned, the OSCE had visited the site two, three times before the Dutch (who were given the lead for investigating) even arrived. RT reporters are seen visiting and filming the piles of wreckage still there.

Some investigation.

"The least visited crash site in the world".

Who needs actual evidence when the act was maliciously planned and the official cover story is already aired on day one?

Putin did it…

Can't wait for the actual NATO "approved" report by the Dutch, all hundreds of pages of it.


Putin did it, Putin did it, blah blah, putin did it, he did it, blah blah, Putins did it didn he, blah blah, yep he didid it…
edit on 27-9-2015 by intrptr because: Putin did it.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: intrptr




AT 13:35, investigator reviews internet photos and, like many others, postulates the shoot down by a jet with a missile first and, when that failed to bring the jet down, using guns on the cockpit to finish the jet off.


And yet this debunks that fairly easy...


The cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder and data from air traffic control all suggest that flight MH17 proceeded as normal until 13:20:03 (UTC), after which it ended abruptly. A full listening of the communications among the crew members in the cockpit recorded on the cockpit voice recorder revealed no signs of any technical faults or an emergency situation. Neither were any warning tones heard in the cockpit that might have pointed to technical problems. The flight data recorder registered no aircraft system warnings, and aircraft engine parameters were consistent with normal operation during the flight. The radio communications with Ukrainian air traffic control confirm that no emergency call was made by the cockpit crew. The final calls by Ukrainian air traffic control made between 13.20:00 and 13.22:02 (UTC) remained unanswered.


www.onderzoeksraad.nl... ternal-cause-of-mh17-crash#fasen

So by the above the investigators theory in the RT video is pretty much BS when actual facts are looked at.

And why didn't the commercial airliner make a distress call after the first attempt, and why does this not come up on any voice recording, or black box...something that would have been there?



That particular scenario right there explains the boom sounds the people on the ground hear (Air to air missile explosion) which caused them to look up and see the jet in proximity with the airliner, prior to it being finished with cannon fire.


And yet that didn't happen, but RT really likes to push that theory without actually having evidence to back the claim.

Again they saw this at 33000 ft, and before I forget remember the weather was overcast...



Additionally, according to all weather reports for Avdeyevka on July 17, the area had 70 to 80% cloud coverage and cloud base height of 2,500m. The information can be easily verified through a number of independent sources. Russian satellite image shows exactly that.


eng.mil.ru...

As you can see above the base height that day were 2500 meters which equals to 8200 ft, so unless they were above the clouds they didn't see MH 17 let alone another plane near it.



There was some period of time between the air to air missile and the eventual disabling of the plane by targeting the cockpit. During that interval is when witnesses say they saw both planes overhead, the military jet was seen at times in trail and in another report, below the airliner.


I guess Russia really needs to remember what they have said before trying to prove something they debunked themselves.

Just look at the post above and they admit the clouds base height was well under the height these two planes were at, or at least one was and the other could never be at.

Also knowing the separatists have already said that if Ukraine flew a plane over their territory they would shoot it down, so how is it this magical plane from the Ukrainian military was able to do this task and get away without being shot down?

Sometimes the simplest questions are the hardest to answer.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

It's called experience. Engines don't just suddenly start making a much louder noise like he's describing. Again, unless you're claiming Russian engines operate differently.




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