Why I choose responsibility over catering to everyone's specific wants

So, here's two lists of what could happen with a woman in college - I realize it will not define the typical person, but I'm just making a point.

She:
Drinks
Smokes
Sleeps around
Has a drug addiction
Needs government assistance for:
Food and bills
Rehabilarion costs
Abortion / health costs

And everyone empathizes with her, coddles her, and demanda more and more rights for her.

Or..

She:
Stops all addictions
Spends the newfound money on food and bills
Doesn't sleep around/does so safely

What am I missing? Why is the first situation the one America now roots for. We are free, right? So sex, drugs, and rock and roll until you can't anymore and let the people and government pick up the bill when they cannot.

And when a person "lacks compassion and empathy" they are seen as the enemy. They are told they are what's wrong with America.

We talk about corruption in DC, but what about immorality and bad decision making in the general populace? If our leaders are only reflections of the loudest people in the population.. We're never going anywhere unless the population changes.

We can talk about tptb, the nwo, banksters and political agendas all we want. But real revolution and change and advancement comes from the majority. We have to want a better America.

Americans have a greedy, irresponsible and dishonest government because Americans themselves are greedy, irresponsible and dishonest.

But they refuse to admit even the possibility, therefore we will never get anywhere. America will collapse under the weight of its own decadence, brought on by en masse willful ignorance of the people.

originally posted by: deadlyhope

She:
Drinks
Smokes

Is this bad? Does this affect her abilities? Moderation in anything is OK. Does she get drunk every night? Does she smoke 2 packs a day? These two in them selves are not really a big deal. I drink and smoke cigars, and I'm successful...

Sleeps around

OK, morality? Really? What does this got to do with anything other than she may have made a commitment and is not keeping to the commitment. Other than that this is a moot point in your post.

Has a drug addiction
Needs government assistance for:
Food and bills
Rehabilarion costs

Ok, you finally get to the crux of the issue....

Abortion / health costs

How many abortions? What is the health issues? I think we all have health issues....

She:
Stops all addictions
Spends the newfound money on food and bills
Doesn't sleep around/does so safely

New found money? What the lottery? How about she becomes an asset to society and has a job...

What am I missing? Why is the first situation the one America now roots for. We are free, right? So sex, drugs, and rock and roll until you can't anymore and let the people and government pick up the bill when they cannot.

I think it is more simpler to whether she is a user based on life bad decisions or contributes based on life good decisions.

We talk about corruption in DC, but what about immorality and bad decision making in the general populace? If our leaders are only reflections of the loudest people in the population.. We're never going anywhere unless the population changes.

The corruption is that politicians today offer free stuff (bribes if you will) and it is human nature many times to take the path of least resistance even if it means a poor life.

originally posted by: NthOther
Americans have a greedy, irresponsible and dishonest government because Americans themselves are greedy, irresponsible and dishonest.

But they refuse to admit even the possibility, therefore we will never get anywhere. America will collapse under the weight of its own decadence, brought on by en masse willful ignorance of the people.

Our government mirrors us, we vote the same failures back into office over and over. Hell it took Barney Frank to retire to get him out of office, and he was basically the architect of the creation and fall of our housing bubble.

Lots of ignorant people in America. My choice in life was to establish myself in a position where I do well no matter who is in office, so in the end I do not care. I have done really well under Obama, but then 50% of America is struggling...

Women need to learn their place in society!

Holy hell

And what's next when they get married? Do men need to remind them that they are to have dinner ready by 6pm?

a reply to: Xtrozero

This was even more pronounced in the day of the founding fathers. Hence a representative gov't and not a democracy.

The very concept of a representative gov't is elitist by it's nature. It does reflect reality more accurately than the delusion that we are all equal.

a reply to: muse7

They have already. They run my family, without a counter-insurgency either....

One of the definitions of freedom that I have always liked is responsibility

To really be free, you have to be responsible for yourself..... Think about it

a reply to: deadlyhope

Your argument is illogical. There aren't two options as to what a woman's experience in college will entail. Plus your two options are two extreme circumstances and rarely anyone matches up to those circumstances. This thread comes off as wildly sexist.

Suggesting that all liberal women in college get abortions or sleep around... Suggesting that women can't partake in vices...

a reply to: deadlyhope

You actually don't discuss the topic of your title in your post.

a reply to: muse7

This post could have been about a guy as well. I'd rather someone spend money on food, not cigarettes and alcohol, followed by needing food stamps, regardless of gender. This was just an example.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Replace the whole thread with male, then, if you will. Remove the abortion argument, add in something else.

And I stated that it won't define the average person, but each circumstance individually exists all around.

Would I rather pay for a man's rehab or have him never do drugs?
Would I rather pay for more abortions or have people use more protection, or not sleep around at all?

Food stamps is a topic itself as well. 90 percent of transactions at the small market I work at are soda, chips, candy and the like. That doesn't encourage being healthy and getting to a better place like wic does. Not to mention they have hundreds of dollars a month for cigs and beer and would hardly need the "help" if they just chose personal responsibility over taking hand outs.

Neither men nor women should partake in vices if I end up footing part of that bill. Why should they be able to?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Replace the whole thread with male, then, if you will. Remove the abortion argument, add in something else.

And I stated that it won't define the average person, but each circumstance individually exists all around.

Would I rather pay for a man's rehab or have him never do drugs?
Would I rather pay for more abortions or have people use more protection, or not sleep around at all?

Food stamps is a topic itself as well. 90 percent of transactions at the small market I work at are soda, chips, candy and the like. That doesn't encourage being healthy and getting to a better place like wic does. Not to mention they have hundreds of dollars a month for cigs and beer and would hardly need the "help" if they just chose personal responsibility over taking hand outs.

Neither men nor women should partake in vices if I end up footing part of that bill. Why should they be able to?

In other words you think that one should be a busybody and judgmental of others you consider less moral than yourself. Got it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm not talking about morality. I'm not saying any of these things are bad on their own.

Give me an honest, hard working person who only asks for government assistance when necessary, but does all they can to make ends meet on their own, and I'm happy.

These things are bad because of the results and because of the huge support they are getting.

We want to allow every man and woman all the drinks, abortions, smokes, and food stamps they say they need, and it makes me a jerk to say otherwise I guess.

My point is, stop buying cigs and beer, then see if you need food stamps. My point is, don't have sex if you don't want a kid, or can't afford an abortion. My points is people should be held very accountable for their life.

The forefathers vision was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Not codependency, oppression, and pursuit of whatever the hell we want at the cost of others.

Nothing I've been saying has anything to do with morality.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't care what people do with their money, with their times, with their bodies. I truly don't care if they commit all sins that are deemed legal. This isn't about religion or morality or who I personally see differently.

It's about where the money is coming from to support what others want to do.

Tell me exactly why I need to pay for someone's food stamps if they could otherwise afford it if they didn't buy non-essential items?

Tell me exactly why I need to fund abortions of people who could have just not had sex, or been safer.

For the record, I'm not making blanket statements. I'm not lumping people into classes or stereotypes.

Let's see if you can give me the exact reason that taxes taken from my check should go to those people, though. Less emotion, more logic.

a reply to: deadlyhope

So why do you care if people do drugs? Why do you care if they have sex?

You've basically, with this thread, said that if you use drugs, eventually you will need rehab. And if you have sex you'll eventually need an abortion.

Second, who are YOU to speak about what is and isn't an essential means to live? First off, all you need to survive is food, water, shelter, and a place to sleep. Everything else is non-essential. So don't talk to me about non-essential items. You buy non-essential items too.

Third, you don't fund abortions with tax money. It is illegal already for tax money to go towards funding abortions. Do you even pay attention to these things or are you just ticking off a bunch of tick marks in the Conservative playlist?

Let's see if you can give me the exact reason that taxes taken from my check should go to those people, though. Less emotion, more logic.

I'd rather fund social programs than warfare.

I'm not convinced to your reasoning. You appear to be trying to make a thread to whine about people doing things you consider immoral then think that these people shouldn't have access to Social programs. That's complete bull#.

All these conservatives talking about taking responsibility, while finding scapegoats at the same time. The scape goat here is not government but women. If only they could be like you responsible male conservatives

originally posted by: deadlyhope

I don't care what people do with their money, with their times, with their bodies. I truly don't care if they commit all sins that are deemed legal. This isn't about religion or morality or who I personally see differently.

You could have fooled me. That seems like exactly what this is about.

It's about where the money is coming from to support what others want to do.

Tell me exactly why I need to pay for someone's food stamps if they could otherwise afford it if they didn't buy non-essential items?

Tell me exactly why I need to fund abortions of people who could have just not had sex, or been safer.

So you've never had unprotected sex then I take it??? Never had a condom break on you???

For the record, I'm not making blanket statements. I'm not lumping people into classes or stereotypes.

Sure you are. Poor people are people with no morals, who make bad decisions, who take your money, get loaded all the time, get knocked up and are on Gov. aid.

Let's see if you can give me the exact reason that taxes taken from my check should go to those people, though. Less emotion, more logic.

How much of your tax dollars go to pay interest on money borrowed for going to war???

How much of your tax dollars goes to paying for multinational corps. who keep their money in tax havens so they pay no taxes???

How much of your tax dollars goes to paying for subsidies for energy companies, Big Pharma, Big Ag, etc. even though they already make a profit???

How much of your tax dollars get's sent to other countries like Israel to support their wars???

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I truly wonder if you play Devils advocate more often than anything. The amount of intelligence you show on average indicates that you could put things together better than the average person, yet at times I feel more emotions attached and less logic.

I truly do not care about a person's morality.

Someone signing up for food stamps because they spend money on smokes, drinks, etc.
Someone signing up for food stamps because they spend their money on tithing.

I'm against both these situations. The first should give up their habits, and so should the second. Neither should require me or the government to donate to their preferences.

a reply to: deadlyhope

So how are you going to stop them?