From a Email

"Posted by Muscles, Age 18
Feel free to spread the following rant everywhere, it makes for a good
arguement against some idiotic Bush supporter....

In a country where the poor and old cannot afford health care, in a country
where the economy is falling apart, in a country where 44 million people
live on less than $12,000 dollars a year, in a nation where 5 million people
are homeless, in a country where the entire media system is owned by only
six media mega conglomerates, in a nation with the highest crime rate, in a
country with the world's largest prison population, in a society where 60%
of marriages end in divorce, in a country where 25% of kids under 12 live in
poverty, in a country that cut 25 billion dollars out of veterans benefits
to help pay for a new war, in a country where the gulf between the rich and
poor is growing everyday, in a nation that supports dictatorships in Saudi,
Egypt, and Turkey, in a country where the government is full of corruption,
in a country with the world's highest teen suicide and stress rates, and
you're telling me our biggest problems are TERRORISM and DRUGS?

B#LLSH#T!"




[Edited on 9-6-2003 by All Seeing Eye]

I'd spread it around but I'd only be laughed at. Anyone with a logical mind can pick that paragraph apart. So instead you can email the dude my reply.




"In a country where the poor and old cannot afford health care."

Join the rest of the world. Why should you be any different? Your healthcare system is probably better than any other country's in that world as it stands right now. Get real.



"in a country where the economy is falling apart"

Well boohoo. You've still got more money than the rest of the world put together.



"in a country where 44 million people live on less than $12,000 dollars a year."

Damn that makes me cry. Firstly that figure accounts for people who don't want to work, kids who have just left school and people who fiddle the system for benefits.
Then to cap it all - it's still $12,000. Damn, go whine at the dude in Africa who earns $240 a year. He'll laugh in your face.



"in a country where 5 million are homeless."

5 million? Yeah maybe homeless, but they still get a roof over their heads. Most of them still get benefits. I've been to your country. There's no excuse for homelessness. You Yanks have it on a plate. If you get off your butts, you can easily get a job, get a home. Some people don't want to do that though. They're drop outs. They want to sit in doorways, drink liqor and beg from passers-by. Good money in that, didn't you know?



"in a country where the entire media system is owned by only six media mega conglomerates"

So get off your butt and start your own company. Starting a newspaper isn't difficult. Whining because somebody else got off their butt to do something is kinda pussy.



"in a nation with the highest crime rate, in a country with the world's largest prison population"

Yeah. At least you catch and imprison them. What do you call a high crime rate? I call a million people killed in Rwandan genocide a crime. Guess that makes this one a bit of a joke doesn't it?



"60% of marriages end in divorce"

Welcome to the real world, son.



"in a country where 25% of kids under 12 live in poverty"

Oh yeah? Whose definition of poverty? How many of those kids starve to death? How many of them have to wander around naked because they don't have clothes? How many of them have to walk 5 miles in the burning sun to go get a drink of water? What's your survival rate for under 5s?
Poverty. Go tell that to the kids in Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe.
You don't know when you're well off.



"in a country that cut 25 billion dollars out of veterans benefits to help pay for a new war"

Yeah. Life's a bitch. But they signed up to go fight. Why should anyone have to pay the rest of their life for theirs? Most of them can go get jobs. It's what the rest of us had to do. You can't even personally prove that the specific reason for benefit cuts was to fund the war in Iraq? Pah!!! Didn't think so.



"in a country where the gulf between the rich and poor is growing everyday"

Capatilism my friend. Survival of the fittest. Why should I work my butt off to keep some slob who sits watching TV all day, and his 30 kids in luxury. It's his bed. He made it. Let him get off his butt and do something about it.



"in a nation that supports dictatorships in Saudi, Egypt, and Turkey"

Would you rather the US supported Iraq and North Korea? Oh yeah, they support those Arab regimes. That's why those Arab regimes are crapping their pants and looking over their shoulders in fear. That's why they keep sending terrorists to kill our citizens. Yeah, we support them and they show us real love.
The US supported those regimes because of the Cold War. Lucky for you that they did. Otherwise the Russian oil that you would buy to put in your Russian made car, before going off to your Russian Language school would be paid for out of your pocket in Russian Roubles.
And let me tell you dude - the rouble ain't worth crap. You'd really have something to whine about then.



"in a country where the government is full of corruption"

All I can do is laugh at that one. It doesn't even dignify an answer.


"In a country with the highest suicide rates"

Wrong!!!! Go check proportional figures for some of the European countries. You'll find out that yours is not as high as theirs.



"you're telling me our biggest problems are TERRORISM and DRUGS?"

Ah!!! Finally something I can agree with!!!
Yup, terrorism and drugs aren't the biggest problems. The biggest problems are a lack of education (or certainly not listening in school) before emailing crap like that.
But your major, major problem in the US? The whining fools that you've got there. They expect everything done for them. They expect everything to be perfect. Yet damned if they're gonna get off their asses and work for it. All they do is sit there all day and whine, whine, whine. To tell the truth it gets kinda monotonous.Well boobloodyhoo. Get a life.

The rest of the world doesn't hate the US because of it's policies. They hate you because you have everything and all you do is sit there and moan!!! They're sick of your self pitying drivel. If there was a weapon that could take out all the whining, ignorant fools in the world, I would press the button tomorrow. Damn, I'll be classed as a murderer when I bomb the rest of the world, but when I use it on the US it will be genocide!!!

Pah. You dumb buggers don't know when you're well off. Go live ANYWHERE else in the world and tell me that life is better.

the problem with America is that everyone is too fat




education and drugs are America's real problem's, all of those things you mentioned are relative and aren't really serious, when you have a population of 300,000,000 it must be difficult to keep the population happy.

"The maid was in the garden, hangin' out the clothes
While I crept up and shot her dead in the nose
Message in a bottle, violent as our records spin
One stranded couple terrorized by backwoods men
A young man home from reform school, now a burglar
Since sixth graders suspect their principal is a murderer
A man investigates the death of his twin brother
Three kids search for their missin' parents and cover
A nightclub owner, schemes against mobsters
Four congressmen turn out to be impostors
Five teens try to track down the jewel thief
One little boy, knocked out another's teeth
Successful script writer becomes a heroin addict
A surgeon and his ex-wife slaughtered by a mechanic
A barroom boss and they lost, threw it to the hospital
A little girl found a fly inside a popsicle
Two bored Indians become bank robbers
A cop searchin' for the killers of his father
A rapper's lifestyle of sex, drugs and booze
A highway man, swindles a drunker's booth
A homeless in a dumpster, and finds a new pair of shoes
An injured jazz musician, dead on the news
A housewife entangled in lies and domestic abuse
A dirty politician tries to rub out his opponents
The outside man fought another man in the rain
A business woman had to smooth for the correct spelling of her name
A skinhead who lead a fierce biker gang
Involved in white slavery and Mr. Avery was never neighborly, romancin', a jackpot
He killed his wife and drove to Vegas wit her head in a hat box"

-Warcloud - America

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Peace]

Leveller, your name surely describes you. I like the way you fire from the hip with both barrels.

My first thought before reading the body of the letter was, "Yeah, I'll take my advice from an 18 year old maybe just out of highschool and without an original idea of his own at this point. All he knows is what a bunch of socialistic, left-wing, NEA member teachers have told him.
You smack him around fairly well (not that the author will ever see it), but I'd like to add something:

Drugs is not an outside problem, except that is where the cocaine and heroine come from. The problem is from within, and I mean from within as in each person's heart and mind.

You want to see the cause for the drug problem? Look at the user. Don't blame some cartel for producing the procuct and then handling the shipping so that neighborhood vendors can market it in your neighborhoods. I've been offered drugs many times, probably more than the 18 year old as I'm more than double his age, but I've never had a gun to my head and made to purchase and use it.

Stop the cop-out bullcrap. Stop with the P.C. victim bullcrap. Place blame where it belongs, everyone isn't the "victim", some people are just short-sighted, selfish and just plain old STUPID. It doesn't take the president to fix the problem, it takes people to grow up and be responsible.

Responsible. Are you even allowed to use that word in today's PC environment or is it on the words to be banned?

TC

There are some clever socially aware 18-year-olds with PhDs and better on the planet, as well as the high school finishers you mention.

I just wanted to use the word 'responsible' as you've suggested, in this context:

'responsible recreational drug use'.

I'm not a pusher.

Yuppers

Exactly, exactly exactly. No further comment needed.

Oh, wait. Well said Leveller

Leveller I feel sorry for you, I really do if that's the way you think.

You are incapable of thinking for yourself and there was so much hate there.

You have my heart-felt pity, you really do.

Hey! Stop talking about it as if being young is somehow bad. I am three years younger than this guy and writen much more profusely on the subject. I guessI'm special

Seriously, I think this guy is a bleeding heart who is just parroting off what he hears from liberal demagogues Seriously, there is not an original Idea in there or even a point, just a mindless repition of facts. And some facts are hopelessly skewed. Blah

Leveller, *coughs* Leveller did bring up some good points. But we did(dont ya just love BB code?) support the regime in Iraq, at least for a while.

XAOS

God, leveler, youre on drugs.

We have it easy? LMAO. This isnt Europe. There aint no nice social safety net to catch you when you fall. You crash and burn here, you crash and burn.

12,000 bucks a year does not count those unemployed fools. obviously, most of u dont have to deal with cycle lay-offs and such. since i have gotten out of the army, the most money ive ever made in a year was 14,000 bucks. Doing everything from sugar labs to fabricating circuit membranes tp cleaning pools and apartment maintainence. So, yess, to all those people out there who hold jobs that pay worse and worse, living on 12k a year is a serious problem, especially when your employer doesnt offer medical coverage. do u kno how much private coverage costs in the us? lowest ive seen is 200 bucks a month. Dont talk, leverage, at least in Europe you HAVE medical coverage. 40% of americans dont, and cant afford a doc either.

She said teen suicide rate, not general suicide rate. Read more carefully, and do a little research.

The only thing we agree on here is the prison population issue. Criminals should get locked up.

And terrorism and drugs aint our biggest problems. Drugs are beside the point.

Americans problem is that its living in constant overdrive.

Thank you fantastic.

Our debt should be priority #1. Not drugs, certainly, not terrorism.

Debt means someone else, the elnders, holds America by the balls. Thats almost a shadowy kind of invasion and conquest of its own!

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Even the young are SEEING it

What can I say ? Oh yeah, I know. I'm happy to be 35 years old and not 18.

Anyway, when I was 18 years old, I wasn't writing such BS. Nope, I was " just " fighting against the commies and their twin brother, the leftist-socialist.

Gosh, so many points, where to start?

M-A, 18 year olds, no matter how "socially aware" they may think they are still lack something that is very important, and that is experience. Yeah, I know there are thousands of 18 year olds running around who hold Ph.D.'s (Sure. Maybe millions). And alal there experience in life is where? Nowhere. What, do you think I was hatched at 39? Yeah, I thought I was a regular genius at 18, too. That's what the case is when you know nothing but what others have told you. Many of my righteous "ideas" have been proven to be nothing more than pipe dreams. Don't worry, experience will come along by participating in life. Notice I didn't say with age. I know some who've merely grown old without participating.
I would never think that you were a pusher, by the way, pusher generally don't take the time to become involved in internet discussion due to "job demands", but I am of the mind to suggest that real responsibility might possibly dictate not using drugs at all. Of course, I do not know what drugs you use. I do know that I've seen many friends die or get totally screwed up over drugs and I don't recall any of them having any other intention but to be a "recreational user". What is the other kind of user besides recreational - professional?

John, where was the hate? I didn't detect the first bit of hate in Leveller's post, just some good insight from a cousin from the other side of the pond.

Leveller, did I miss some hate, there? You can best tell me your emotional state!

Why is it that the press doesn't cover the press—or, to be more precise, doesn't cover itself with the same energy, resources, detail and spirit of reform that it applies to every other influential constituency in our society? Though we can hardly deny we're a center of power, we barely cover ourselves as news at all, nor do we readily reveal our processes to our readers. Two elemental questions emerge from this double standard: 1) How do we justify not reporting energetically on ourselves? and 2) Would it have a positive effect on journalistic ethics and standards if we did?

The answer to the first question is: We don't even bother to try. There are roughly 1,500 daily newspapers in this country. Only a handful—at most a dozen, including The Post—actually have a reporter who covers the press full-time as a beat. What critical reporting exists, though at times refreshingly good, is for the most part timid and superficial. About 15 papers have an ombudsman on staff to respond to readers' complaints. When it comes to looking at itself, society's watchdog is a lamb.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Yeah, I thought I was a regular genius at 18, too.

OH ??? You too ????

Great, we have 2 former 18 years old genius on ATS.

Please, Kitty, be careful about what you wish! From time to time they do cover themselves, and it is the most pathetic and glad-handing event one can stomach!

As far as health care for all and so on and so forth, this may shed some light on reality.
N-C, there is a direct correlation between how hard and smart one strives to achieve success in this nation and how close they come to achieving their dreams.
The problem with these statistics about poverty, lack of health care, etc. is that it does not factor out the piss-poor planners and the less than dilligent goal-setters.

As far as the deficit, that is not due to any tax refund, or that is to say, giving money back to those who earned it anyway (excpet for this silly idea of giving a "tax break" to those who didn't pay income taxes to start with!), it is due to the extreme stupidity of the congress, both dems and repubs, who have spent like people with only two weeks to live. Bush has done little in the way of making waves over the money-tossing contest, either.

You'd almost think they know there's an economic/financial disaster for the world just over the horizon and know its all a moot point, anyway!

New Constitution Amendments NEEDED.

The following has been attributed to State
Representative Mitchell Kaye from GA. The guy should
run for President.....

"We, the sensible people of the United States, in an
attempt to help everyone get along, restore some
semblance of justice, avoid any more riots, keep our
nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure
the blessings of debt free liberty to ourselves and
our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one
more time to ordain and establish some common sense
guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt-ridden,
delusional and other liberal bed-wetters. We hold
these truths to be self-evident: that a whole lot of
people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so
dim that they require a Bill of No Rights."

ARTICLE I:

You do not have the right to a new car, big screen
TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if
you can legally acquire them, but no one is
guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II:

You do not have the right to never be offended. This
country is based on freedom, and that means freedom
for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the
room, turn the channel, express a different opinion,
etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably
always will be ... and like the rest of us you need
to simply deal with it.


ARTICLE III: (I like this one!)

You do not have the right to be free from harm. If
you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be
more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to
make you and all your relatives independently
wealthy.


ARTICLE IV:

You do not have the right to free food and housing.
Americans are the most charitable people to be
found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we
are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation
after generation of professional couch potatoes who
achieve nothing more than the creation of another
generation of professional couch potatoes.


ARTICLE V:

You do not have the right to free health care. That
would be nice, but from the looks of public housing,
we're just not interested in public health care.

ARTICLE VI:

You do not have the right to physically harm other
people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or
kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us
want to see you fry in the electric chair.


ARTICLE VII:

You do not have the right to the possessions of
others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods
or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if
the rest of us get together and lock you away in a
place where you still won't have the right to a big
screen color TV, pool tables, weight rooms or a life
of leisure.


ARTICLE VIII:

You don't have the right to a job. All of us sure
want you to have a job, and will gladly help you
along in hard times, but we expect you to take
advantage of the opportunities of part time jobs,
education and vocational training laid before you to
make yourself useful.

ARTICLE IX:

You do not have the right to happiness. Being an
American means that you have the right to PURSUE
happiness -- which by the way, is a lot easier if you
are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws
created by those of you who were confused by the
Bill of Rights,"


ARTICLE X:

This is an English speaking country. We don't care
where you are from. We welcome you here. English is
our language and like the one you left behind, we
also have a culture. Learn it or go back to the
country and the living conditions you were fleeing.


If you agree, share this with a friend. No, you
don't have to, I just think it is about time common
sense is allowed to flourish -- just call it "The
Age of Reason Revisited."

TC

I'm not ageist. I believe people start thinking for themselves at different ages and for different reasons, if they ever do.

For my altered states of consciousness I prefer natural substances. I would never inject anything, for one, nor am I particularly interested in destroying the membrane between my nose and my brain by snorting anything.

Intoxicants (including alcohol) have been used from time immemorial by human beings and other apparently intelligent species including elephants to enhance the enjoyment of life, which can be pretty dull if it is filled only with materialism and church pews and vapid middle American existence. And I guess a homeless jobless disenfranchised tramp (how many millions of those are there in the US?) really needs his brown paper bag of potion to blot out the world he has decided to leave behind, or vice versa.

Kitty may your crusade for reporting of truth yield you more than an ulcer.

We need alot of things.

TC, just because you are msart and motivated doesnt ensure sucess. the whims of the economy can make and break anyone. Do you think simply because someone has a college degree, goes to schools, whatever, works hard, they will succeed? Then why is Seattle full of former Boeing engineers working as Safeway checkout clerks?

Accidents and misfortunes can wipe out anyones fruits of hard labor. How many people, with no health insurance, who worked and saved thier whole lives, had thier savings and even security wiped out because of a medical condition that created huge bills? or one act of misfortune, such as natural disater, can clean u out.

Inteeligence and ambition arent for everyone. We need less than smart people around. If everyone had ambition to climb climb climb, then wed be a comepletly murderous cutthroat society, more so than now. We need humble folks who can stay happy working those less than glamourous jobs that are essential. But even those folks deserve a chance at security that is well within thier reach and attainable. In our society, its not.

Its because of unregulated uncontroled predatory capitalism. Which is slowly eroding the middle class. inflation and an unstable economy has driven many things well out of the reach of many people. 50 years ago, the averge Joe could attain things like home ownership and a stable life through hard work, without having to screech by paycheck tp paycheck. prices were relatively balanced with what people made.

Now, theres alot of epopel who work hard, but still, have to live in debt for basic necessities. Things like home ownership are out of the reach of too many people without them having to live in other debt forms. This is because theres not enough regulation on banks, interest, housing markets ect.

Should people be given things for free? No. But things should be attainable. A poor worker should still be able to afford a house of his own. Not a big house, not a fancy one, but a home of his own, instead of living his life renting. I know too many people who own homes that have to live off of credit cards for everything else.

The huge gap thats incresing between the rich and the poor, and the disinitigration of the middle class is not a sign of a good stable society. At this rate, were gonna end up like South America: welathy estates on top of hills surrounded by shanty hovels of corrugated aluminum filled with a bunch of poor slobs who cant make enough to eat.

Socialism? Hell no. But unrestricted predatory capitalism has to go. We need some form of regulation and such, beause capitalism, while the healthies economic sustem around, like anything, if left out of control and unchecked, can grow into a cancer, and end up with a climate like the bolsheviks found before the Russian revolution.