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Are There 'Moderate Muslims' or Is Islam a Flawed Ideology

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posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 10:19 AM
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There is moderate Muslims, but Islam is a very flawed ideology. Either one was brainwashed into believing it since they were born (like most beliefs) or one chose to become Muslim because they are stupid.

Islam should be given no respect and therfor, neither should any political movement associated with it.
edit on 26-9-2015 by blueman12 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Islam is currently in the same state as Christianity was in the 1200 to 1800 sorta period. Different sects fighting and killing each other over whose god is Best.

This is happening with the Muslim world right now and will probably continue to do so for another 30 or 40 years.

The difference as to why Christianity came out of that so quickly, or sooner than Islam did is directly IMO to how much meddling the rest of the world does in those nations. They've not really been leading themselves due to that and it's hard to mold yourself a national identity and put the good people in the places of power.

At every turn in ME countries, we have created power vacuums after our initial shock and awe campaigns. Because of the high level of civilian casualties, the only people left are those extremists. So it's normal to watch the pendulum swing from moderate to extreme fanatic during that time frame.

I use Afghanistan as an example all the time. There was a time, not too long ago that woman were going to University and studying to be doctors and lawyers and they were walking around in pencil skirts.

That all changed in the early 80's after the country was basically bombed into Oblivion by Iraq, Russia and other countries.

No, I don't think that Islam is incompatable with any other belief system. I simply think require more moderates in position of influence and power.

And since our leaders would rather have a despot who is wiling to play ball, as opposed to an actual leader in those countries, this is the result, time after time.

~Tenth



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Metallicus

Islam is currently in the same state as Christianity was in the 1200 to 1800 sorta period. Different sects fighting and killing each other over whose god is Best.

This is happening with the Muslim world right now and will probably continue to do so for another 30 or 40 years.

The difference as to why Christianity came out of that so quickly, or sooner than Islam did is directly IMO to how much meddling the rest of the world does in those nations. They've not really been leading themselves due to that and it's hard to mold yourself a national identity and put the good people in the places of power.

At every turn in ME countries, we have created power vacuums after our initial shock and awe campaigns. Because of the high level of civilian casualties, the only people left are those extremists. So it's normal to watch the pendulum swing from moderate to extreme fanatic during that time frame.

I use Afghanistan as an example all the time. There was a time, not too long ago that woman were going to University and studying to be doctors and lawyers and they were walking around in pencil skirts.

That all changed in the early 80's after the country was basically bombed into Oblivion by Iraq, Russia and other countries.

No, I don't think that Islam is incompatable with any other belief system. I simply think require more moderates in position of influence and power.

And since our leaders would rather have a despot who is wiling to play ball, as opposed to an actual leader in those countries, this is the result, time after time.

~Tenth



If I wasn't so pissed off at this thread, I would have wrote exactly the same.




posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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It may surprise many, but during the 1960-1970's Iran and Afghanistan were the places to be for us old hippies. Almost everyone I knew at that time did the hippy trail and loved Afghanistan, Kabul was a cool funky place a far far cry from what it is now.

Miss Iran Contest 1971


Afghani Women then and now


Iranian Female Members of Parliament


Now those are what you'd call moderate Muslims. I see the revolution worked out soooo well for these women who can only now tell stories of the freedom they had to children & grandchildren who have never known it



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

There's a very simple answer. I'm a moron that doesn't pay close enough attention. Had you conflated with somebody else in my mind. It baffles me that I could make that mistake because you've been posting here quite some time while while I was lurking.

I do stand by my statement that you're one of the good ones by all accounts of what I've read from you here though. I got that part right at least!

It's funny you mention Buddhistm though. Up until the past year I hadn't heard of Buddhist violence. I watched a documentary on Myanmar and it talked about Buddhist terrorists www.nytimes.com...

When the Buddhist population is going rogue where the hell do normal people fit in just trying to live their lives? I was shocked.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 03:58 AM
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The loser in your avatar is a convicted serial rapist here in New Zealand.
The Mongrel Mob is a gang with an entrenched rape culture, in fact, rape is one of the pre requisites for membership.

Not cool.

Plus, I agree with your observations on Islam as a whole compared to Wahabbism.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 04:24 AM
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You have a very short memory didn't you there has been lots of attacks since 911.
July 4 2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting Hesham Mohamed.

October 2002 Beltway sniper attacks

March 5 2006 Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar ran over a group of pedestrians at UNC-Chapel Hill

July 28 2006 Se, Naveed Afzal Haq attle Jewish Federation shooting.


I could keep going with things like the recruiters office and fort hood shooting but you get the idea. What attacks like this shows is anyone could be a radical. And I agree there truly isn't anything called a moderate or radical for that matter. There is individuals that will always take up a belief and take it to the extreme. They don't start out radicals something happens to cause it.

if an abortion doctor is murdered by some anti abortion nut. Or a Muslim decides to run Americans over because of his Muslim brothers they have one thing in common. An unhealthy infatuation with religion. Christian or Islam both can be misused and interpreted incorectly. Could you argue its easier in Islam id say probably yes. In Islam Mohammad is not portrayed as a kind man.

Religion is the easiest thing to use as a weapon. Control the mind you control the body. I can't wait until the day religion is completely removed from society we may finally be able to achieve peace.
edit on 9/27/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Metallicus

Islam is currently in the same state as Christianity was in the 1200 to 1800 sorta period. Different sects fighting and killing each other over whose god is Best.

This is happening with the Muslim world right now and will probably continue to do so for another 30 or 40 years.

The difference as to why Christianity came out of that so quickly, or sooner than Islam did is directly IMO to how much meddling the rest of the world does in those nations. They've not really been leading themselves due to that and it's hard to mold yourself a national identity and put the good people in the places of power.

At every turn in ME countries, we have created power vacuums after our initial shock and awe campaigns. Because of the high level of civilian casualties, the only people left are those extremists. So it's normal to watch the pendulum swing from moderate to extreme fanatic during that time frame.

I use Afghanistan as an example all the time. There was a time, not too long ago that woman were going to University and studying to be doctors and lawyers and they were walking around in pencil skirts.

That all changed in the early 80's after the country was basically bombed into Oblivion by Iraq, Russia and other countries.

No, I don't think that Islam is incompatable with any other belief system. I simply think require more moderates in position of influence and power.

And since our leaders would rather have a despot who is wiling to play ball, as opposed to an actual leader in those countries, this is the result, time after time.

~Tenth


The reason Christianity doesn't cause as much problem is its influence is disapering. I don't think it has anything to do with it going through stages. In the west Christianity has almost no control in the middle east Islam controls all. If Christianity started controlling States like the middle ages I have little doubt we would have inquisitions.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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originally posted by: Breakthestreak
The loser in your avatar is a convicted serial rapist here in New Zealand.
The Mongrel Mob is a gang with an entrenched rape culture, in fact, rape is one of the pre requisites for membership.

Not cool.

Plus, I agree with your observations on Islam as a whole compared to Wahabbism.



You want to know what happens when you get a large number of these kinds of people in your town?

There has been a poster on here (different thread I think) who has been claiming that everyone in Bradford (UK) gets along great together, that there is no problem.

Well here are 3 of the main stories from the Keighley News (Keighley is about 10 miles away from Bradford, has a population of just 90,000 people, approx 20% of whom are Pakistani or of Pakistani origin.

www.keighleynews.co.uk...

www.keighleynews.co.uk... ?ref=mr&lp=5

www.keighleynews.co.uk...

Here are a couple of stories from his beloved Bradford from their local paper:

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk...

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk...

It's like this every week nearly.

What happens is that they are treated with kid gloves by the Police because of their religion, then people from that community become more brazen and their behaviour escalates.

And 99 times out of 100 nothing happens to them.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 05:27 AM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Metallicus

Desert Islam (Wahhabism) spawned from Saudi Arabia is the root cause of the issue.

I have lived in Indonesia (worlds largest Islamic nation) and Malaysia (and on Christmas Island) for years at a time and folks are free from intimidation towards the practice of non-Islamic religions.

So, yeah, it's funny how the Middle East version is the root of extremism....and the further Muslims are disconnected from that, the more moderate they are.


Just to be clear, Wahhabism is a relatively new "denomination". It's only been around for about 200 years and it's an extreme minority of Muslims. The reason it's still such a small minority is because most Muslims don't accept its ultra-conservative interpretations (this is why 70-95% of their victims are other Muslims, depending on the specific war).

And as our friend & brother Kapusta reminded me, most Wahhabis aren't violent or any of the other stereotypes, either. It's usually a branch that are considered Kharijites who are the violent extremists. Kharijites were around during the times of the early Caliphs (and warred with the Caliph Ali), though today's branches are a revival movement (and they don't consider themselves Kharijites but whatever).

To put your experience in context, imagine if the American Amish communities were violent and believed their duty was to purge the rest of Christianity from its "flaws". Plus they happened to live on countless trillions of dollars worth of natural gas & petroleum. So the Western powerbrokers make a petrodollar deal with them, where the West will arm & protect them as long as they sell their resources in US Dollars.

Then imagine they start funding Amish-compliant churches & businesses all over the world; start funding militant Amish extremist groups; and start attacking the Christian communities that don't meet their ultra strict standards. They promote their wars as a continuation of the centuries old "Protestant vs Catholic" feud, and mostly only attack non-Christians when they want to get foreign powers involved in their battles.

In this example, would it be fair if all of the world's Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheist, and everyone else blamed all of Christianity for their actions? After all, we can quote a ridiculous amount of passages from the Old Testament that encourage and/or command mass murders.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not criticizing you. Just putting your example into even more context.
edit on 27-9-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 05:58 AM
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a reply to: Power_Semi

I have tried repeatedly to explain the awful truth about Bradford Keighley and the like. I live 2mls from Bradford and it is a true cesspit. Even the "posh" parts are being infiltrated. My Sikh friends have been forced out of their home due to being surrounded and suffering daily problems from the Muslims in the area. Many incidents happen in Bradford that go unreported for fear of another riot. On another thread I told the tale of my parents and their friends in their sixties who were attacked and beaten some years ago on their way to a dinner at Bradford University, I was called a liar. I told the story of my daughter who was mugged on her way to work by a gang of muslim youths and again called a liar. I explained that in truth there are no go areas where even the Police will warn you not to go into, but again called a liar.

Most of the apologists for Islam it seems, come from areas where they have hardly ever seen an immigrant let alone lived amongst thousands of them. If you've no direct experience how can your opinion be informed if all you have to go on is youtube videos and mass media information? My mind was made up way back in the 90's long before all this liberal acceptance & tolerance carp and long before 9/11. The events of 9/11 may have woken America up but we in the UK and Europe were already awake having been forced into a multi cultural Britain that we never asked for nor got consulted on, and what's more the Muslims didn't want it either, they were happy forming their "communities" so they never had to mix with us infidels and we let them.

Here's another story for you to call me a liar at, my brother back in 1998 applied to join the police force. He sat his exam only just passed but was turned down in favour of Pakistani applicants to "encourage more diversity". He put in an official complaint because he was like that lol, it came out although I think shouldn't have done, that the pass rate for the 2 Pakistani applicants had been reduced by 5pts. My brother was told that it was permitted under some regulation or other again to encourage diversity.The police in Bradford seriously struggle to recruit any Pakistani officers as those that do join are considered traitors to their country, their country being Pakistan of course NOT England. It is this kind of action and attitude that breeds racism not skin colour



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:17 AM
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But on a lighter note watch this. This guy cracks me up. Just to show that Muslims too have a sense of humour



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:26 AM
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originally posted by: higherconscience
Maybe western culture is what's really bad.. has anyone looked around lately? What a cess pool. Maybe it's time to flush the crap down.


you are more than welcome to move out of a western cultured country if you think they are so bad.......frankly, all the people that don't like it.....please move the F out now, you are screwing it up for the rest of us.
edit on 27-9-2015 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:28 AM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Power_Semi

I have tried repeatedly to explain the awful truth about Bradford Keighley and the like. I live 2mls from Bradford and it is a true cesspit. Even the "posh" parts are being infiltrated. My Sikh friends have been forced out of their home due to being surrounded and suffering daily problems from the Muslims in the area. Many incidents happen in Bradford that go unreported for fear of another riot. On another thread I told the tale of my parents and their friends in their sixties who were attacked and beaten some years ago on their way to a dinner at Bradford University, I was called a liar. I told the story of my daughter who was mugged on her way to work by a gang of muslim youths and again called a liar. I explained that in truth there are no go areas where even the Police will warn you not to go into, but again called a liar.

Most of the apologists for Islam it seems, come from areas where they have hardly ever seen an immigrant let alone lived amongst thousands of them. If you've no direct experience how can your opinion be informed if all you have to go on is youtube videos and mass media information? My mind was made up way back in the 90's long before all this liberal acceptance & tolerance carp and long before 9/11. The events of 9/11 may have woken America up but we in the UK and Europe were already awake having been forced into a multi cultural Britain that we never asked for nor got consulted on, and what's more the Muslims didn't want it either, they were happy forming their "communities" so they never had to mix with us infidels and we let them.

Here's another story for you to call me a liar at, my brother back in 1998 applied to join the police force. He sat his exam only just passed but was turned down in favour of Pakistani applicants to "encourage more diversity". He put in an official complaint because he was like that lol, it came out although I think shouldn't have done, that the pass rate for the 2 Pakistani applicants had been reduced by 5pts. My brother was told that it was permitted under some regulation or other again to encourage diversity.The police in Bradford seriously struggle to recruit any Pakistani officers as those that do join are considered traitors to their country, their country being Pakistan of course NOT England. It is this kind of action and attitude that breeds racism not skin colour


I believe you, seen it all myself. Don't forget that Keighley had a muslim grooming problem way before Rotherham etc came out and it was all brushed under the carpet.

During that time was also an Asian male going around attacking women - hitting them over the head with lumps of wood etc - it suddenly stopped although no arrests were made, the rumour was that our inglorious police farce arranged for "community leaders" to send the offender back to pakistan "until he learned to behave himself" - so as not to "cause tensions".

etc

It's a big joke that isn't funny any more - nor was it ever funny for the indigo's



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:30 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr


In the west Christianity has almost no control


What are you talking about. 70% of Americans consider themselves religious. More than 50% are Christians.

Christians, more than any group in the US hold massive amounts of power, wealth and influence.

~Tenth



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: dragonridr


In the west Christianity has almost no control


What are you talking about. 70% of Americans consider themselves religious. More than 50% are Christians.

Christians, more than any group in the US hold massive amounts of power, wealth and influence.

~Tenth


When you preach peace and forgiveness and turning the other cheek, and some others teach not forgiving and chopping your head off or setting you on fire if you don't agree with them.

Who do you think is going to win?



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:07 AM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

But they are not united and there is the difference. Back in darkest history, the Muslims were able to conquer as much land and peoples as they did because they were united. They still are united they have to be as its part of their religion, not to oppose the Will of God or the teachings of the Prophet. We are not, we are splintered with hundreds of different factions be it religous or political and our politics are separate from the State, there's is all encompassing. THIS makes them powerful



posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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I wouldn't be so quick to believe there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Not in this day and age anyways where we are spooned what the government or the establishment wants us to believe. You have to understand that you've been lied to before you could begin to deal with the truth.



posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: Ikema
I wouldn't be so quick to believe there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Not in this day and age anyways where we are spooned what the government or the establishment wants us to believe. You have to understand that you've been lied to before you could begin to deal with the truth.


Do you think someone is born a radical? Where do you think they come from? Moderates will become radical depending on what happens to them. Could lose there job or a loved one and decide to devote themselves to allah. Tragedy creates radicals nature of humans.



posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 07:33 PM
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I think moderate Muslims exist, though they are the minority in Islam and most of them are too afraid of beheading to take any kind of activist position.

Moderate Muslims are the equivalent of 16th century Christian Protestant reformists. The moderate Muslim recognizes that the more barbaric instructions in the Koran need not be followed, and is content to practice Islam without forcing it on others.

If fundamentalist Muslims would take a break from killing moderate Muslims, the religion of Islam might undergo its own reformation and find a place in the modern world.
edit on 28-9-2015 by OpenMindedRealist because: (no reason given)



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