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originally posted by: Sremmos80
originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Metallicusau.yahoo.com...
Desert Islam (Wahhabism) spawned from Saudi Arabia is the root cause of the issue.
This, needs to be quoted for truth.
Stop looking at the ME as the end all be all and assume all people act like that.
True but Saudi Arabia has bankrolled the spread of Wahhabism all over the world. Their version of Islam is what is taught at the Mosques and Madrases they build around the globe.
originally posted by: Ksihkehe
originally posted by: Metallicus
I have been trying to envision a scenario where 'moderate Muslims' will live peacefully with people of other faiths or even in a secular society and to be honest I can't see it happening. The term 'moderate Muslim' itself may be flawed.
Many like to say that the problem with Islam is 'Islamic Extremists', but is it really? Many like to say things would be okay if 'moderate Muslims' would speak up. I am wondering if that is true.
What if Islam is simply a fundamentally flawed ideology? I know some say it is a religion, but it is the political movement associated with Islam that is incompatible with the West and other secular nations.
What if instead of 'moderate Muslims' we said 'moderate Nazis'? Could we say that it is only 'Nazi Extremists' that are the problem? If only the 'moderate Nazis' would speak up everything would be okay, right?
I would submit that instead Islam, like Nazism, are fatally flawed ideologies that simply don't allow for others to live in harmony with them. It simply isn't possible for these ideologies to work without destroying anyone that doesn't comply with their beliefs and agendas.
What do you think ATS?
Ahhh, the irony of a Christian talking about extremism. I hear this constant talk from Christians about hating the sin and not the sinner, but there are so many Christian bullies. Get your house in order. I'm down with some of the core Christian beliefs, but man you got a problem with keeping your team in check. I'm a Taoist, which should align well with most Christian beliefs, but in this town if you aren't attending church you might as well be the devil. Imaginary people in the clouds dictating how to live. You're a good man by all accounts of what you say here, but dogma is dogma. Where do we draw the line with faith-based beliefs? What is okay and what isn't? It's a great deal easier to decide when beliefs aren't tied in. I'm good if it doesn't infringe on my rights. Trouble is just about every religion has some belief that wants to infringe on my rights.
In this day and age if you're a Christian or a Muslim, should you step on my property and knock on my door, I have a 9mm waiting on the other side and a polite request for you to leave my property. All private roads here and unless you're a resident you have no business here. Moderate my ass. It is what it is. Dangerous days.
originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I would submit that Islam, like Nazism, are fatally flawed ideologies...
...all Religion is flawed, because it is false, but that doesn't stop us living in peace with each other.
We are living in peace Religion isn't the most important thing in the Muslim folks lives I know yeah sure they follow it but family and friends matter more to them. Sure there are fundies just like in every religion but to say they can't integrate and live with others is just a plain ignorant lie.
originally posted by: neo96
originally posted by: muse7
There's millions of Muslims living in the US and we haven't had a terrorist attack since 9/11. Most of the terrorist attacks we've had since then have been by rabid right wing Christians bombing clinics and shooting up Jewish and Hindu temples.
Christian phobia will not be tolerated here.
I'm down with some of the core Christian beliefs, but man you got a problem with keeping your team in check.
originally posted by: muse7
a reply to: Metallicus
Dude I know plenty of Muslims, there's plenty at my university and you couldn't differentiate them from the rest of the students. Turn off Fox News and stop reading the blaze so damn much and maybe then you could realize that most Muslims are peaceful people.
Quran… an accursed book…. So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.
– William Ewart Gladstone
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom four times between 1868 and 1894 (1809–1898).
If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whomever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thorough silenced and concealed.
– Zakariya Razi (Rhazes)
Persian chemist, philosopher and physician, 865 – 925AD.
The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within.
– Will Durant
American writer, historian, and philosopher (November 5, 1885 – November 7, 1981).
These future United States presidents questioned the ambassador as to why his (Islamic) government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress, ‘that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise’.
– Thomas Jefferson
U.S. president addressing the Continental Congress about the brutal pirate attacks of the Muslim Ottoman Barbary (1801–1805 and 1815).
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, lovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
– Sir Winston Churchill, 1899.
British Conservative politician and statesman of the United Kingdom during the Second World War.
… The point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom.
–St. Thomas Aquinas (Contra Gentiles, Book One, Chapter 6, Paragraph 4)
Italian Dominican friar and Catholic priest and an immensely influential philosopher and theologian in the tradition of scholasticism (1225 – 7 March 1274).