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GOP Candidates Say Immigrants Don’t Learn English, But Report Proves Them Wrong

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posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 06:21 AM
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Having dealt with other countries and their ugly under belly that we don't get to see over here. The US immigration laws are poor but we don't treat people that bad, compared to many other. But everyone like throwing stones at us like we're the worst of the bunch. Sure we need to make ours better, but we're at least trying.

Look up Japans "foreign Trainee" program.




posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: ANNED

Many, not most. While your experience is appreciated it is anecdotal and in the minority.

My primary home (soon my secondary) is in SoCal and I speak Spanish very well. I usually go out of my way to communicate in Spanish if I can tell that is the first language of the person I am talking to. The way someone lights up when they see someone has put the effort in to talk to them in their own language is a source of joy.

With that said, I have found most people who are undocumented speak very poor/limited English if any English at all in that area.

My secondary home (Soon to be Primary) is Coastal GA and there is a large group of undocumented immigrants here as well. I have found the immigrants here speak more English than the immigrants in SoCal, but still limited. Children of immigrants here speak zero English and often don't learn until they enter the public school system. Soon South GA will have the same problem SoCal does of teachers time being wasted teaching US Citizens how to speak English. In SoCal it often consists of those kids sitting in a room watching a children language teaching program.



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
It appears the study says legal immigrants integrate, while undocumented aliens (the ones the GOP is talking about) do not.

It's on page 95.


I'd bet its particularly hard to "integrate" when you are forced to the edge of society.

That's your opinion. Another opinion is they do not want to integrate. Nothing in that report dismisses that opinion. Either way the OP does not back up their claim. The report backs up the GOP candidates.


Well...how about we call it a "very well informed opinion".



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko

How do you know if some one is undocumented?



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

Because they tell me. I am (despite what people may think here) a good people person. I meet a lot of the same people in my morning routine and have regular conversations with them in their native tongue. It makes conversations easier.

Edit: OOOOH, I see. You were trying to suggest I was racially profiling. Typical.
edit on 25-9-2015 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko

Nope, just asked how you knew, if you want to take that as trying to racially profile that is on you.

Find it weird that someone would just tell you in casual conversation that they are their illegally.



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

In SoCal they don't think they are here illegally...seriously.

Edit: Also, when you talk to someone in their own language it immediately loosens them up. They have an ally. It's why the Bush murderers did so well with the Hispanic vote. "Oh, you are evil incarnate, but you speak my language...BROTHER!!!"
edit on 25-9-2015 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Haha, of course they know English. They just don't want to talk to you.



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Metallicus

We are talking about ALL immigrants. People who were born in another country and are living here now.


i just fail to see how they would have any data on illegal immigrants since they are not documented? how can stats be collected?



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 09:09 PM
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They didn't. He (Krazy) never read the report which says the opposite of his OP. It is all in Section 3.

a reply to: blondegiraffe



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: raymundoko

Nope, just asked how you knew, if you want to take that as trying to racially profile that is on you.

Find it weird that someone would just tell you in casual conversation that they are their illegally.


Unless you are an "authority" of some sort, they will typically not deny their immigration status. Raymundoko describes a difference in their belief in SoCal that they are here legally. That is part of the "Aztlan" movement, and many of them believe they are reclaiming land that was stolen (aside: i believe the Aztlan movement was injected into prison culture by US 3 letter groups, and it spread from there via the cartels)

In Texas, there isn't much Aztlan mentality. La Raza is fairly small in effect, too. LULAC is pretty big, comparitively....but our local population if 48% each white and hispanic (with 4% being asian, black, other), so there isn't much fighting for rights needing to be done. I have the honor of seeing the best that the culture has to offer in my local community.
Its a big part of the reason why i, as a pale anglo who grandfather immigrated from Hungary, identify more closely with the latino community. They're just good people



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Think it could be more then just a three letter alphabet agency and maybe just families that know the history. But wouldn't say what you think isn't very probable as well.

I agree they are usually good people though, had a undocumented family that we were really close with growing up that my parents actually helped get their citizenship.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: JohnthePhilistine

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Nice work.

The good thing w/threads like this is lurkers & other readers get to see the truth about these issues and the knee jerk "rebuttals" that can't disprove the OP.


Yes well I guess no one is as worthy as you to have their opinion heard. Now excuse me while I go check on the non-English speaking framerios my boss hired.


LOL What are you even talking about? You started off replying to me then drifted off into huh?

Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about no one else being worthy of having their opinions heard. I'm perfectly capable of saying what I mean.

And just for the record, opinions and facts aren't the same. The OP is filled with facts while the rebuttals have been filled with rhetoric, talking points, fearmongering, deflection, projection, and opinions. Notice what's missing? Facts. Hence my original post.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 12:44 AM
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originally posted by: ObjectZero
Having dealt with other countries and their ugly under belly that we don't get to see over here. The US immigration laws are poor but we don't treat people that bad, compared to many other. But everyone like throwing stones at us like we're the worst of the bunch. Sure we need to make ours better, but we're at least trying.

Look up Japans "foreign Trainee" program.


One of the major differences is that unlike those other countries, the US loudly proclaims itself the "Leader of the Free World". We act like we have a mandate to dictate our morals & ethics to the rest of the world, and will place sanctions or go to war with people who don't follow our dictates. Even nuclear powers like Pakistan & Russia aren't safe from our sanctions or drone strikes. And we routinely go to war with people who "treat their citizens wrong" or whatever other pretext we choose.

So we have more of an implied responsibility to do the right thing. Especially when we put out Human Rights Reports every year and chastise any country that doesn't follow our definition of human rights.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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Is Krazy done reading the report yet? Specifically section 3? Or has he just left the thread after the premise was obliterated?



posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

You didn't read the report either? The OP is not filled with facts. The report is, and the report says those here illegally DO NOT learn the language. You can apologize for your density at your leisure.



posted on Sep, 29 2015 @ 08:23 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SlapMonkey

No, the report actually doesn't make a distinction between illegal or legal immigrants. It just analyzed them all. It found that across the board, this holds true regardless if they are here legally or not.


But this “immigrant crime wave” is a myth, according to this week’s report. Researchers found that crime rates in immigrant communities are much lower than national averages. Immigrants are “much less likely” to commit crimes, and communities with high immigrant populations have lower crime rates than “comparable non-immigrant neighborhoods.” Additionally, immigrants have lower rates of incarceration than the average population, even after including immigrants who are in jail for violating immigration laws.


But I wonder--if most of the people included in this "across-the-board" analysis are law-abiding, legal immigrants, it would make sense that there is a lower crime rate.

When I was in the Army (and when I lived in S. California for 19 years), I knew many people who acquired citizenship legally (or who were attempting to do so), and most, if not all, were some of the most honest, upstanding people that I knew, and they would not have jeopardized their ability to become citizens or all of the effort (and cost) of having become a citizen by committing crimes. They were (and I assume that they still are) content being productive citizens or productive future citizens. Hell, a few of them joined the Army and were willing to die defending the constitution even though they had not yet become citizens--upstanding people, for sure.

But then there was the element of illegal immigrants. While I did not know many, I knew many people who did, and I heard about many of the illegal happenings that would go on, much of which was related to drugs and larceny. I'm in no way saying that most illegals acted that way--on the contrary, I assume that most are good people just trying to make an (almost) honest living by working way too hard for the compensation that they receive--but many did.

That's all the point is that I'm trying to make here--I need a study with a better distinction between the rates of crime and assimilation for legals and illegals, because that paints a much more honest picture about the situation than just lumping all immigrants together and saying "Immigrants are 'much less likely' to commit crimes...," as that statement is probably only half true.

ETA: Sorry for the late response--I was out camping with the boy all weekend

edit on 29-9-2015 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

It does differentiate. The report only covers statistics for LEGAL immigrants and separates out Undocumented Immigrants. The report is very clear that Illegal Immigrants do NOT integrate into their foreign society as they have no incentive to.

Krazy was 100% wrong and just left the thread once he realized that.



posted on Sep, 29 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Metallicus

We are talking about ALL immigrants. People who were born in another country and are living here now.


Technically, wouldn't the illegal ones be criminals? I'll read the report and see if it takes that into consideration or if it is just leaving out that all illegal immigrants are technically criminals. If it leaves that part out then I would question the scrutiny of the author as well as the agenda.

ETA: Never Mind...the report is way too long to read. I just read through some of the sources and resources they used for it and already see plenty of discrepancies from the OP story in HuffPo.

Here is one big one about the second generation research:



edit on 9/29/15 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: SlapMonkey

It does differentiate. The report only covers statistics for LEGAL immigrants and separates out Undocumented Immigrants. The report is very clear that Illegal Immigrants do NOT integrate into their foreign society as they have no incentive to.

Krazy was 100% wrong and just left the thread once he realized that.


Thanks for the update. I didn't have the time to browse through all of the pages before responding to his reply.

Wouldn't be the first time someone has just abandoned a thread once proven wrong.



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