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At least 220 dead, 450 hurt in stampede during Hajj outside Mecca

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posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:06 PM
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Read that its now over 700 dead, 800 injured.
www.cnn.com...




posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly




I guess that's not satisfactory to a religious fanatic


Calling someone a religious fanatic for undertaking the Hajj is like calling a Catholic a "fanatic" for going to confession because for a Muslim the Hajj is a important step in Islam just like confession is for a Catholic. I think the insinuation of the word "fanatic" says quite a lot of about what you really think but would not dare to say.




I'm disturbed at these "cultures" that advocate that dying is ok if done in the name or closeness to God.


you have such a twisted view of Islam, corrupted by the media and sadly by terrorists.

I think its very sad that in the west where we are prominently Christian our main exposure of Islam seems to come from the death and destruction brought on by groups like ISIS that you seem to think that the families of those who died today will be ok with it because dying is ok.

The people those who have died in this horrible accident have left behind will be mourning just as much as you or i would mourn the passing of a loved one in a car crash.

I almost feel sorry for you that in your attempts to publicly vindicate your views in a attempt to be seen to be "right" you would make such harsh and uncaring statements about people who have passed.

I actually do not want to continue this debate with you because, although you may not realise it, your comments are becoming more and more cruel. You are probably a decent enough person but you are so desperate to be right you are letting yourself become so cold and callous towards your fellow men.

Basically you are wrong in your views, your views are dated in our modern and civilised society we welcome differences in culture, race, sexuality, religion, gender and so on. But you cannot seem to let go of your xenophobia towards Islam. This shines though in your posts.

With that said, I think you and i are done, our views of the world are so different we may as well be on other planets.

quite sad that your xenophobia distances you form others.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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May the dead find peace and may the living find solace.

R.I.P.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

As I understand it, don't they have to circle the venue three times at some point? I thought the circling was part of it. so asking them to not move may not be possible.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: ketsuko




It's because they can all do so in different places at different times.


so who is forcing Muslims to do it at the same time at the same place ?

Ah yes..Religion...it says that place is holy...right ? You must throw stones to cast out the devil...and you must do it right there. Once you do...you have achieved your life goal. And that's not fanaticism ?

Sorry guys...but it is just ridiculous to me.

As long as you do it...I'll be tolerant about it....just don't ask me to feel sorry for you. Talk to your God. Whichever. He's the one that "called" you to the "sacred" place.


It is a holy day. You observe it on that day.

And you observe it in Mecca.

If you genuinely hold nothing to be sacred, then I wouldn't expect you to understand.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Vasa Croe

As I understand it, don't they have to circle the venue three times at some point? I thought the circling was part of it. so asking them to not move may not be possible.



Yeah...movement is required which is why the trampling happen for the most part. I would guarantee if it were not, there would be far fewer deaths at this event. Unfortunately the deaths do not seem to be cause enough to make a change.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:39 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




If you genuinely hold nothing to be sacred, then I wouldn't expect you to understand.


well...you know...lives...kinda are. Human religious practices...not so much. To me anyway.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe




Unfortunately the deaths do not seem to be cause enough to make a change.


and that is the point I'm trying to make here. Next year...there could be 1000 killed...or less...doesn't matter.

Nothing can change because the fanaticism is hardcoded, so to speak, that when watching from an objective perspective...it appears as if...they dont matter.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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I certainly aren't a lover of Islam, nor of any organised religion for that matter.
And I really don't understand the need / desire or reason for Hajj - nor any sort of Christian, Hindu etc equivalent.

But I dare say the vast majority of those killed or injured were just honest people seeking to carry out a holy pilgrimage in accordance with their religion.
It's not a statement of hatred towards anyone else but rather a testament of faith - I don't understand it but I respect it.

As has been said; no-one deserves to die in such fashion.

But what I find hypocritical of the highest order are those who try to ridicule or justify as some sort of divine act of retribution come from those who are the first to criticise Islamic extremists for their barbarism and lack of humanity.


edit on 24/9/15 by Freeborn because: grammar



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Vasa Croe




Unfortunately the deaths do not seem to be cause enough to make a change.


and that is the point I'm trying to make here. Next year...there could be 1000 killed...or less...doesn't matter.

Nothing can change because the fanaticism is hardcoded, so to speak, that when watching from an objective perspective...it appears as if...they dont matter.


I wouldn't say it's fanaticism as much as its the leaders not doing something. The followers are only doing what they believe in. It is the leaders that need to make a change in the way things are done.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly





Basically you are wrong in your views, your views are dated in our modern and civilised society we welcome differences in culture, race, sexuality, religion, gender and so on.



I would say this statement applies to the practice of the pilgrimage as well. It is very dated and a change does need to be made for the safety of all involved. If one is not, then death on this occasion should be expected every single year. If death is expected then you could extend that to the leaders of the faith not caring enough to make a change, therefore holding them responsible for the deaths.

700+ people in a matter of minutes should make a change...let's see if it does this year. I am not Muslim, but would hope that followers of the faith would understand the dangers this particular rite of passage pose and speak out on it.

Seems it is time for change....over 4000 have died in stampedes since 1990....that is a lot of people losing their lives because of poor planning.
edit on 9/24/15 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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I get peoples resentment here.

Looking at is what is currently going on in the world.

I can see the WHY's for the lack of sympathies, but people seem to forget who was chanting, and cheering in their streets on 9-11.

Those wounds are not going to heal anytime soon, and they will never heal.

And a persons religion has nothing to do with their race.

I will make no apologies here for the lack of sympathy.

And events such as the op happen all the time.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

They have to circle the Ka'aba (a structure) seven times. This takes place at one of sites. There are six sites total all separated about 4-6 miles from each other. Two of the sites are adjacent to each other, but they hit one on the way out and the adjacent one on the way back.

The Hajj starts NW of Mecca, goes through Mecca where the circling of the Ka'aba takes place and then continues SE out to the Plain of Arafat where they turn around and traverse approximately the same route on the return.

The tragedy did not take place at the circling of the Ka'aba, but at the Plain of Mina where the Three Pillars are located. The whole Hajj is about movement, even the meaning of the word "Hajj" means pilgrimage/journey. All told the Hajj is about 40+/- miles.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: neo96

You must really hate the Japanese and the Germans then, based on that logic.....



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: neo96

You must really hate the Japanese and the Germans then, based on that logic.....


Currently are the Japanese, and the Germans going around killing people in the name of their religion ?

Nope.

The Japanese, and the Germans both have better track records on human rights than Saudi Arabia.the home of Mecca where people get trampled on by what seems every year making 'holy' trips.

Women,LGBTS are treated better in both Japan, and Germany.

But then again they have had over 70 years to get their acts together, and their culture is not dominated by religious zealotry. Whereas Saudi has had over 1400 years, and it's still same ole same ole.

The logic is sound, just some people want to refuse to admit the Saudi has massive problems, and the cause of so many other peoples problems.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
Read that its now over 700 dead, 800 injured.
www.cnn.com...


So terrible.
I wish they could find a safer way to manage this.
My thoughts go out to the families who lost loved ones. That number of deaths is just horrible.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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So... why didn't Allah stop this? Why did Allah let his followers die like this?

I'm so confused. Can anyone shed some light on this?



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: noonebutme
So... why didn't Allah stop this? Why did Allah let his followers die like this?

I'm so confused. Can anyone shed some light on this?


Doubt it....the religious will say it was meant to be and the non religious will say there is no god....doesn't matter really.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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What is it with this religon?
what trigers this mass hysteria every so often.
they are supost to be carm and completive.
some thing is very wrong with this religon.
or has it been for 100's years that some one has been in the
crowd and don some thing to panick them?
it Has happend before! that vid in the first part of this post.
says some thing about a bomb hoxe



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: maddy21

originally posted by: 3n19m470
top comment on your link, just for informational purposes. i myself have no comment at the moment.




This must be the will of Allah ,because nothing can be contradictory to his will .
Perhaps Allah enjoys watching



Why target me for the hypocrisy on the link ? I am just surprised at the lack of empathy people have and at the same time complain how "Muslims" are evil...


How exactly did I "target" you? I was merely pointing out something I found interesting which I happened to find on your link. Relax a little.




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