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At least 220 dead, 450 hurt in stampede during Hajj outside Mecca

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posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: neformore

Like bringing up world war 2 wasn't a straw man?

Like calling someone a 'hater' because they dared criticized Saudi Arabia?

If that makes me a 'hater'.

So be it.




posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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Your rant is going nowhere because it's empty without the spiritual backgroung. You only feel something subconsciously.
IMHO atheists should look for another thread if they can't comprehend the spiritual background of this reality.
These are very symbolic events in the spiritual world. Can't you smell the irony when they stone the devil and stone themselves to death? Imagine the atmosphere of the place after all the animal sacrifices. One has to smell blood in the air and nothing else. The emotions. Aren't they actually rejecting Jesus with this symbolic practice? Remember the Nepalese earthquake after the huge animal slaughtering? Why Isis vows to destroy Mecca and kill Jordan's king and everyone who worship stone in Kaaba? Because some of them can see the pagan origins of Islam is a problem. However I've seen an image of a crucified man in Syria. What are they thinking will be their fate after they are done? The ax is already at the root of the trees. Imagine your atheistic fate - muslims are mostly godly, humble people. )
No, it's not about logistics.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 03:22 AM
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27-Sep-2015
Health Minister Khaled al-Falih announced the new figure 769, an increase from the previous toll of 717. The number hurt rose to 934 from 863 recorded just after the deadliest incident in a quarter-century to strike the annual Muslim pilgrimage.

Keep the number coming! Keep killing each other LOL!!!!



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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www.presstv.ir...

The death toll from a deadly crush during Hajj pilgrimage rituals in Mina, outside the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia, has soared to about 2,000, says the head of Iran’s Hajj and Pilgrimage Organization, citing Saudi sources.



Death toll seems to have reached 2000, considering the amount of people which are "missing" as per most countries that i hear. I fear that 2000+ maybe the true number



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Really passes me off how so many o n this site seem to view the value of a Muslims life to be less than that of others.


You mean a life of servitude, oppression of women, death if you want to leave the faith and a prophet who had sexual relations with a 9 year old child?

Hmm.

Yes. I would agree with the second part of your statement above.
edit on 27-9-2015 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Really passes me off how so many o n this site seem to view the value of a Muslims life to be less than that of others.


You mean a life of servitude, oppression of women, death if you want to leave the faith and a prophet who had sexual relations with a 9 year old child?

Hmm.

Yes. I would agree with the second part of your statement above.


It is now widely accepted that the mother of Christ was around 12 years old.

In the middle ages it was not seen with the same disgust as it is today, thankfully humanity has moved on and we would now punish such behaviour but i still has to be looked at in the contest of his time in history.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It is now widely accepted that the mother of Christ was around 12 years old.

In the middle ages it was not seen with the same disgust as it is today, thankfully humanity has moved on and we would now punish such behaviour but i still has to be looked at in the contest of his time in history.


What, and that makes it "ok" ?

So what is the mother of Christ was 12 years old? What different does that make? It's still not "OK" when the religious profess to be the only ones capable of moral or ethical insight.

Please. Don't even try with the, "But THEY did it too!" nonsense.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme

I am not saying it is ok, i am not excusing it all I am doing is pointing out is that there was a time in human history where it was normal. Just form a survival point of view when 40 was considered old humans were breading at a earlier age as human society has evolved thankfully so have our views on this practice.

Its sad however that this still goes on today but its not just something that happens in Islamic traditions so its not a reason to just focus to understandable hate of this practice onto Muslims.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 08:49 AM
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many were not dead when they stuffed bodies like animals into trucks and only passed out, but suffocated later under a pile of bodies. Saudis were too busy to transfer huge number of bodies in order to prevent others from documenting it and to avoid responsibility.

Why do you thing hundreds are still missing despite the fact that accident happened in a small area?

Saudis are not even allowing Iranian officials to visit the dead bodies and denied Visa for some of them. Guess who is hiding something?


This is what my friend in Saudi who visited the Hajj had to say... IN fact there are photos going around in face book and twitter bodies are being piled up and thrown away in Bulldozers..



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: everyonedies

Keep the number coming! Keep killing each other LOL!!!!



T&C's state that I should not personally insult another member, I will however point out that that is one of the most grotesque things I've ever seen somebody post on this website in five years. Normally I give newcomers like yourself a chance to settle in, but if you ever spoke like that in my house you would never be welcome again.

Please consider how your comments come across in future otherwise you might find more suitable websites to express your 'views' elsewhere on the web.

edit on 27-9-2015 by Qumulys because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
haman10 cannot answer the question I have asked. It is a paradox for him.

On the one hand the negative will show his hand, and on the other he will lose face.

haman10, you have made a comparison to a member and compared them to ISIS...I merely ask your opionion of ISIS.

Please do tell us!

So much judgement in a single post . lol

chill out . i come online maybe 2-3 times a week due to my tight schedule . if i didn't answer your dumb question , it was not because i was ignoring it , it was simply because i was NOT here .

if only people would think before hitting the keyboard , the trigger on the guns or the red button written "missile launch" on it , we'd have a much better world today .

i told him he is "worse than ISIS" , if i thought of ISIS as a good thing i wouldn't compare it to him , would i ?

there you go . as it turns out , you only had comprehension problems due to your failed education .



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: neformore




Its amazing how people quickly forget history in order to try and make their point.


Sure didn't forget history of the 1400 years of Islam that has been responsible for millions of deaths.




World War 2 - not in the name of religion mind, but still....


World War 2 isn't even in the same ball park, or comparable.




Need I go on? It makes 9/11 look miniscule.


Gonna have too because that false equivocation didn't work. Besides WW2 lasted 4 years. Whereas we have had over 15 years of warfare over one religion. That religion dragging the rest of the world in to it with no end in sight.

Hell 1400 years from now unless there is a major reformation within Islam future generations will have to put up with the same things.

And I never said a word about 'karma'.

I said I get the resentment after 15 years of recent history, and the 20 before it watching the nightly news with the middle east always in it.

Does tend to make people resentful.


1400 years of killing ? don't think so . en.wikipedia.org...

more like 30 years . and i agree with you . 100,000 self-proclaimed muslims are terrorizing the people of ME .

who are , wait for it , MUSLIM . and are BTW 1 billion people . did you hear that right ? 1 BILLION people

but then again , why not comparing it to WW1 and WW2 ? why not comparing it to the terror campaign on Gaza ? isn't that one based on religion ?

hasn't churches terrorized the whole population till 16 century ? haven't they beheaded people based on false and ridiculous allegations ?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

spare me your nonsense . the problem with this world is that we all think we're the right ones and the other party involved is all wrong .

we think of ourselves as saints while condemning others to eternity in hell , just because of their different culture , race or religion .

as i said before , humans do NOT tolerate eachother and as it's obvious it has nothing to do with being full or starving to death .

it has to do with our failed nature .

Adam was exploited and he was a prophet of the lord . let alone me or you .



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: neformore




Its amazing how people quickly forget history in order to try and make their point.


Sure didn't forget history of the 1400 years of Islam that has been responsible for millions of deaths.




World War 2 - not in the name of religion mind, but still....


World War 2 isn't even in the same ball park, or comparable.




Need I go on? It makes 9/11 look miniscule.


Gonna have too because that false equivocation didn't work. Besides WW2 lasted 4 years. Whereas we have had over 15 years of warfare over one religion. That religion dragging the rest of the world in to it with no end in sight.

Hell 1400 years from now unless there is a major reformation within Islam future generations will have to put up with the same things.

And I never said a word about 'karma'.

I said I get the resentment after 15 years of recent history, and the 20 before it watching the nightly news with the middle east always in it.

Does tend to make people resentful.


1400 years of killing ? don't think so . en.wikipedia.org...

more like 30 years . and i agree with you . 100,000 self-proclaimed muslims are terrorizing the people of ME .

who are , wait for it , MUSLIM . and are BTW 1 billion people . did you hear that right ? 1 BILLION people

but then again , why not comparing it to WW1 and WW2 ? why not comparing it to the terror campaign on Gaza ? isn't that one based on religion ?

hasn't churches terrorized the whole population till 16 century ? haven't they beheaded people based on false and ridiculous allegations ?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

spare me your nonsense . the problem with this world is that we all think we're the right ones and the other party involved is all wrong .

we think of ourselves as saints while condemning others to eternity in hell , just because of their different culture , race or religion .

as i said before , humans do NOT tolerate eachother and as it's obvious it has nothing to do with being full or starving to death .

it has to do with our failed nature .

Adam was exploited and he was a prophet of the lord . let alone me or you .





Best to ignore, there are many here who think of themselves,their country,their religion as white knights in shining armor while they look down on every one else , Its the outcome of the MSM brainwashing.. on the other hand there are many others who are very nice people too..

Btw, nice to see you here in ATS, seen you in Defence.pk....

edit on 27-9-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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Just for perspective and for those who still want to blame Islam for this:

10 to 12 injured in a stampede at a Summer Ends Music Festival in Tempe.

Here we have an entirely secular event where people were nearly crushed to death by a crowd rushing the stage. This is not something that happened because people were fanatically practicing their religion. This was a group of people enjoying a music festival. Should we end all music festivals?

We also hear about this sort of thing happening from time to time at sporting events too.

In short, this is something that happens with large crowds of people. NOT because they are engaging in religious activities or anything else. It is a crowd phenomena, no more, no less.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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If 700+ people were trampled to death (along with 800+ injured - over 1500 people in total!) at any event in a Western country, it would be one of the biggest global news stories of the year. We would be seeing witness interviews and investigation coverage for months. Pundits and experts would debate endlessly the psychology of the people involved - tramplers and victims. Many questions would be asked about morality. You can bet your hijab there would be demand for someone to be held accountable and protocols to be put in place so it never happens again.

When it happens in Mecca, under non-emergency circumstances, the story runs its course within a week. Apologists express their condolences and quickly dismiss any suggestion that something needs to change. It absolutely does not reflect on the values or mentality of those involved. If anything, the event just needs to be managed better.

Is it not obvious that the reason things like this rarely happen in the West is because there is a higher expectation of civility, and higher standards of public management? No Western government would accept hundreds of deaths as an unavoidable part of any regular event. Preventing participant death is priority one for any event organizer. Excusing this sort of thing will only guarantee more unecessary deaths in the future.

There are videos of this trampling. No question remains to the cause; hundreds of people died because others did not sufficiently value human life. It would have been impossible to ignore the fact that they were stomping over a carpet of flesh and bone. No time to worry about that, though...participating in a ritual was more important. How is that anything but fanaticism?

These people were not fleeing a fire or a marauding army. There was no primal fear driving them to ignore the cries of the people being crushed beneath their feet. They were fanatical.

Someone is bound to confuse my thoughts here for critique of religion, regardless of the words I write. Let me clarify: any group of people is capable of the primitive behavior which caused this mass trampling. Societies throughout most of the world have developed values and policies to discourage such behavior. It does no good to ignore those societies which have not.

We shouldn't excuse it at a Justin Bieber concert, nor should we in Mecca.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

I'm not excusing it, but I am pointing out that it is inexact to call it a religious thing. It is a crowd thing. This happens when people are in crowds for whatever reason. You can blame it on fanaticism, but I would even say that is inexact. They would have had the same problem if they had panicked for some reason.

Remember the crowded nightclub that caught fire? Most of those people who died did so because they were trampled in the general panic, not because they burned to death.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 03:21 PM
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Everyone was in such a rush to kill and punish the Devil I suppose, that they forgot about love and patience.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

I'm not excusing it, but I am pointing out that it is inexact to call it a religious thing. It is a crowd thing.

That's the impression I got from your previous posts, and I think we mostly agree. The excusers I refer to are the ones who think this incident should be ignored for fear it will cast a bad light on Islam.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Quite well said.

Kudos to you.



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: haman10

You have not answered the question, you have dodged it. A very convenient dodge as well.

Answer the question...

YES, ISIS is evil...or NO, ISIS is not evil!

Yes, or No...no rhetoric...just an answer.



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