Most homosexuality is a choice

a reply to: AMPTAH

Are you suggesting that the homosexuals need to remain in the closet?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: AMPTAH

Are you suggesting that the homosexuals need to remain in the closet?

I think they should do whatever they want.

The society responds the way it wants.

This is true all over the world.

A heterosexual couple caught kissing on the Beach in Dubai gets arrested and thrown in jail.

Different parts of the world just have different norms.

The people make up the norms.

There is no right or wrong. We make them up.

www_reviewjournal_com/trending/the-feed/man-arrested-arizona-after-traveling-have-sex-horse

A man is arrested in Arizona after bringing in a horse for sex

We make up that rule. Man doesn't mind. Horse doesn't complain. We, who have nothing to do with those two beings interfere and decide what is right and what is wrong.

a reply to: AMPTAH

The society responds the way it wants.

Yes. That is why we fight for our rights. We fought against slavery and we won. We fought for women's rights and we won.

Okay, I'm happy now, the conversation has begun.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
So you say that ‘wanting kids’ has to do with who you are attracted to. How are those related?

No, I said it DOES NOT have to do with which gender you are attracted to. Using the word "who" right there hits home on the semantic argument that you seem to be using here. Of course choosing to have children can be related to WHO you are in love with. "Who" is not the same as "which gender", however. Sexual orientation is only part of WHO somebody is.

I sense some subtle fallacies in your reasoning, but perhaps my interpretation is off because you are asking us to guess what your points are. I think I have a good idea now.

Can you understand that your DNA and animal brain don’t care?

My animal brain does care. Sex is an important part of a loving relationship, and that's coming from somebody that does not want children.

Millions of years of heterosexual animal reproduction.

So it does boil down to sex being strictly about reproduction for you. Didn't I say that in the very first post to you?

As somebody that has studied evolution, surely you understand how the 2 main genders evolved around sexual reproduction, correct? Yes, this means that the earliest sexually reproducing organisms were technically homosexual, so your millions of years of heterosexual evolution is a red herring. Yes, I'm saying homosexuality predates heterosexuality. No surprise that it still exists. It used to the best means of reproduction.

So you answer my question with a question, and expect my answer before yours? Two can play at that game. How do sexually reproducing species go about creating offspring, especially the 99.99% that don’t have access to AI technology?

I beg to differ on your 99.99% claim. In westernized countries anybody that can afford it, can do it. You don't need to spell it out for me. I get it, you are referring to sexual intercourse.

"Why would homosexuals want children if the means for making children is sexual intercourse, based on sexual instincts that evolved via millions of years of heterosexual animal sex?"

Am I there yet? This seems to be point you are gravitating towards. However, for most folks having children isn't just about that. There are tons of independent factors that go into a couple deciding to have children.

Except it’s not that simple. Humans aren’t just hardwired to want kids.

Then why did you bring up the millions of years of heterosexual evolution above?

Every instinctive impulse we experience comes from genetic programming, from hormonal feedback, in this case known as ‘Ye Olde Biological Clock.’ Reproduction and child rearing are extremely resource-heavy pursuits. Hell, having sex of any type is a resource-intensive activity, that’s why it feels so damn good to have it. Our bodies developed a positive feedback to waste those resources. Those nerve endings down there aren’t hyper sensitive just for kicks (pun intended.)

You clearly said it above. Instincts. Humans have also evolved a very complex brain with a complex consciousness. It's not just about instincts for us anymore. We weigh out decisions, sometimes decades in advance. No other known animal seems to have the ability to plan for the distant future like we do. This is why wanting children is more than a biological instinct in modern society. For the rest of the animal kingdom, sure, they do it instinctively because it feels good. They don't realize this action causes offspring. Heck, for the longest time humans didn't either. Now we have science, so we understand more and have more control over our instincts than ever before (as a society of course, there are obviously individuals that do not care).

I think I am the perfect example that contradicts your reasoning. I love sex (and the art of making love), but do not want children in the least. Thanks to science, I can now do exactly that without the risk. Sex in humans has evolved to be more than a simple procreation tool, sex is an art, sexuality itself has become quite diverse amongst our species. Sexual selection is probably the biggest type of selection in our society as far as evolution goes today. But of course, the instincts and urges are still there, we just have the brain power to act on them or not to. The instincts are the reason we have not gone extinct prior to modern civilization. But looking backwards doesn't seem to have any use when talking about human sexuality today.

Sex is healthy and has more purposes for us today. It's not just about procreation anymore.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: AMPTAH

The society responds the way it wants.

Yes. That is why we fight for our rights. We fought against slavery and we won. We fought for women's rights and we won.

Well, everyone has the right to fight for the things they want.

Right now, rumor has it, the Vatican has a big internal fight on various issues. There are supposedly two factions in the Catholic Church, (1) "The Gay Lobby", and (2) "The Pedophilia Lobby". The gay lobby consists of priests who are active gays and want to come out of the closet. We just had one come out, just before the important Catholic meeting on "Family Values", to try to influence the dialog and make it all about gay issues, instead of general family matters. Once the Gays win, the Priests who practice Pedophilia will be emboldened to make their case, for the right to come out of the closet and be accepted. Everyone fighting to be considered normal, and have others accept them without bigotry, after all, we make up right and wrong as we go along. So, why should anyone be forced to remain in the closet, because of their unique "sexual orientation." ?

The first signal we have, that maybe things have gone too far, is the news that "Playboy Magazine" has now decided to stop publishing pictures of naked women. The problem Playboy has, is that the decadence has gone so far, that pics of naked women are no longer a novelty. There is so much more out there, readily available, that Playboy now has to find a new niche. They are now on the way back to conservatism. Starting to put clothes back on the women, to make them "interesting" once again. The pendulum has begun to swing back, moving the other way. In 50 years time, Playboy will be publishing pics of women fully clothed, with only their ankles exposed, the way it was before. We'll all have to use our imagination, once again, to figure out what's under the hood.

Playboy Magazine is one "barometer", that flags a coming change in trends.

Once everybody has fought for and won the things they want, we'll begin to put everything back into the bottle, to remove the chaos from the society, and live normal lives again. People are funny creatures, they always want only the things they are being denied, but once they get them, they lose interest.

a reply to: AMPTAH

First no one should be ashamed or hide who they are or how they want to express themselves. and on the topic of "Freedom" Freedom of expression comes to mind as well.

Can you get denied because you wear a Cross? because you are "Too Straight"?

you can't blame and shame Us for being who we are as a Reason and a Right to deny us the same basic Rights/Privileges/Protections as other HUMANS

If a Same-Sex couple walked into a restaurant in some states they can get legally denied just for being together, if someones boss found out they were GLBTQ+ they could get fired, if someone found out that a GLBTQ+ person wanted to buy a House or Property they could get denied.

it has nothing to do with being "Flamboyant" there are GLBTQ+ people out there who are not flamboyant, who as you call it have "Heterosexual Behaviors" who are not "Too Gay" but if someone found out they could get denied.


Call me a Defect, an Abomination, say i have a Mental Illness, but when people say that it is my Fault that my life is the way it is, that i have had to go through all the stuff i've gone through, when i get blamed for it because i'm "Too Gay" that upsets me the most.

i know it doesn't matter to you, and i guess it shouldn't.. who am i? i'm just written Text to you.. but it affects people, knowing that there are people out there who feel that way

originally posted by: AMPTAH


Right now, rumor has it, the Vatican has a big internal fight on various issues. There are supposedly two factions in the Catholic Church, (1) "The Gay Lobby", and (2) "The Pedophilia Lobby".

The first signal we have, that maybe things have gone too far, is the news that "Playboy Magazine" has now decided to stop publishing pictures of naked women. The problem Playboy has, is that the decadence has gone so far, that pics of naked women are no longer a novelty.

Wow

Gays and pedophiles in the Vatican are connected to Playboy models not being naked now?

How on earth do you make these connections?

Let me break it down for you;

Active Pedophies = bad = burn in hell and suffer you filthy bastards

Gays = benign and constantly beat up for being 'different'

Dressed up playboy bunnies = as a gay man I don't really care. I never like naked women much anyway.

The conservatism you allude to can apply to the gay community as well you know. You need to travel outside the USA my friend. In my home country of NZ gay people are just 'getting on with it' now because everything is legal and there is not really need to fight for anything except ensuring young people coming out are supported properly now.

It is entirely possible to have an integrated and open society where gay people openly exist with equal rights.

a reply to: markosity1973

hey, everyone can appreciate a shapely posterior.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Gays and pedophiles in the Vatican are connected to Playboy models not being naked now?
How on earth do you make these connections?

It's all sex.

a reply to: AMPTAH

It's all sex.

It's all sexual orientation that you don't get to choose.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: markosity1973

hey, everyone can appreciate a shapely posterior.

If it's attached to a hot bloke, I'm right there with you

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: markosity1973
Gays and pedophiles in the Vatican are connected to Playboy models not being naked now?
How on earth do you make these connections?

It's all sex.

Newsflash my friend.

Sexuality defines our attraction, that's all.

As a 42 year old bloke in a relationship with another bloke, I tell you hand on heart truth when I say that sex itself would be less than 0.5% of my life. I don't even look around at other people like I used to.

I am and always will be gay, but sex does not rule my life. That seems to be the bit you can't grasp. Being gay does not have to be a hedonistic life focused in plentiful and random sexual encounters. And for most of us , especially as we hit our thirties onwards, it isn't.

to all the gay people on here....after 92 pages, isn't time to just drop it, some slopped-headed people will never change their mind about it......

a reply to: jimmyx

to all the gay people on here....after 92 pages, isn't time to just drop it, some slopped-headed people will never change their mind about it......

True but a lot of people in society and in government are 'slopped-headed" and want to control gay people's lives.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: jimmyx

to all the gay people on here....after 92 pages, isn't time to just drop it, some slopped-headed people will never change their mind about it......

True but a lot of people in society and in government are 'slopped-headed" and want to control gay people's lives.

those that are, remain mentally and emotionally engulfed in religion....it's like me trying to convince people that god and the devil are mythical beings...ahh, go ahead, in a way I can't blame you......that wall your trying to knock down is really, really thick.

a reply to: jimmyx

Oh yeah. This is a conspiracy site. You do realize there is an conspiracy from "those people"

a reply to: AMPTAH

So, no homosexual can be denied any of these things you mention, if he or she keeps their private business private.

Translation:

Never express who you really are in the World you're living in, and you're free to live your life.

...

a reply to: jimmyx

to all the gay people on here....after 92 pages, isn't time to just drop it, some slopped-headed people will never change their mind about it......

Not sure whom you are directing to "drop it" - but, I do agree with you -
especially want to say:
Stop Feeding the Trolls. *coughAmptahcough*

a reply to: AMPTAH

Once the Gays win, the Priests who practice Pedophilia will be emboldened to make their case, for the right to come out of the closet and be accepted.

That's fine. Go ahead people with pedophilia. We as society will deliberate on the merits of their case. The freedom to act on their attraction implies a victim and harm so I very much doubt society will start to embrace it with arms open. I know I wouldn't for that reason. But sure....let's hear the case.

You're suggesting being accepting of LGBT+ necessarily leads to the acceptance of XYZ. That's fallacious thinking. As has been pointed out many times now.

People made these same slippery slope arguments towards interracial marriage I've been told.

@BuzzyWings

Stop Feeding the Trolls.

You're probably right.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
That's fine. Go ahead people with pedophilia. We as society will deliberate on the merits of their case. The freedom to act on their attraction implies a victim and harm so I very much doubt society will start to embrace it with arms open. I know I wouldn't for that reason. But sure....let's hear the case.

You'll have to prove there's a victim and harm, and not just early education and enlightenment into the ways of the flesh.