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Most homosexuality is a choice

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posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

I never said people cannot change. People change things all the time. I know I have. There are also things people cannot change. That's where your confusion comes in.




posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Not for Sexual-Orientation and Not for Gender-Identity...

i think you are confusing Bisexuality with Homosexuality



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:26 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

Not for Sexual-Orientation and Not for Gender-Identity...

i think you are confusing Bisexuality with Homosexuality


So, if someone claims to be homosexual, and actually converts successfully to become heterosexual,
then you "re-define" that person as "bi-sexual" to explain how it is possible.

Is that correct?



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:49 PM
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edit on 12-10-2015 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 01:01 AM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Your source seems to be at odds with your own thinking. Taken from your source:


"Like you, we never chose to have homosexual feelings. So we couldn't simply choose not to have them. We couldn't just wish them away or will them away."


Not a choice, and not something you can will away.

So your whole "where there is a will, there is a way" doesn't seem to be shared by your source.

One more from them:


We certainly never consciously chose to be sexually attracted to men. Neither could we simple choose to change and be attracted to women instead. At best, willpower could only help us resist the urge to indulge whatever sexual desire we felt in the moment. It could not bring long-term healing.

edit on 12-10-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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It then goes on to say:


But we discovered that we could address the root causes of the conflict - which wasn't really about sex at all. Rather, the longing for male love was, for us at least, really a deep, unmet need from childhood and youth — a longing for a father's affirmation, perhaps, or a peer group's inclusion, or our own internal sense of just being "one of the guys."

What we really needed was to fulfill - rather than suppress - the underlying, core need: a need not for sex or romance with men but for brotherly love. For male community. For self acceptance. And for affirmation, as a man among men.


It seems to me they are attempting to convert them to celibacy, not heterosexuality.

Furthered by:


For most people who seek change, heterosexuality is not actually the ultimate goal - happiness and peace are.


On this page explaining what they mean by 'change' they essentially acknowledge actual change isn't occurring. At least not in the way you've been suggesting. Link.

They talk about a subtle change:

"So, unlike those who argue that nothing less than a 180 degree turn "counts" as change, those of us who actually experience change are often quite content with a much subtler shift."
edit on 12-10-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 01:28 AM
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So they are not trying to convert them to heterosexuality and it's not about willpower. Both things you said it was about.



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 01:39 AM
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So right. You should totally "choose" to be gay then, no?
I mean, YOLO, they have so much fun!

I wish I could join you, but I know that I was born straight, and it most certainly wasn't a choice.
But since you know better, I mean live it up! Why not?
Next time you're at Target with your girlfriend, YOU can waste time buying makeup and bras too! WOO!

They have parades for just being gay. I don't get a straight parade where tons of hot female sluts just throw themselves at any straight guy in arms reach like men do to each other at the Gay Pride parade, so if you believe it's that easy, go for it!
More power to ya bro!

NO? REALLY?
Oh. Ok. So, NOT a choice then, is it.
Bruce F'n Jenner doesn't even like men. Lordy lordy...
This site is so over with these days.



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
So they are not trying to convert them to heterosexuality and it's not about willpower. Both things you said it was about.


I get it. Finally. I understand. There is a "definition" of homosexuality. According to that definition, homosexuals cannot change.

According to ATS, we can write a "wiki" on the terms as follows:

HOMOSEXUALITY:
A homosexual is a person who has an undetectable, unmeasurable, untestable internal mental characteristic called a "sexual orientation", separate from the body, and separate from their actual behavior, that causes the person to be sexually attracted to the "same-sex", and never sexually attracted to the "opposite-sex"; that this internal characteristic is obtained at birth, and never changes, continuing with the individual until death. This characteristic is by definition "immutable", and therefore is not a "mental illness", nor some kind of "disease", hence it "cannot be cured", and so no form of "Conversion Therapy" can ever work, to change the individual's internal characteristic, and all such "Conversion Therapies" must by definition be "Frauds", for they only change the outer "behavior", and not the internal driving cause, which, since it is by definition undetectable, unmeasureable, untestable, does not lend itself to any scientific verification method that could be used to prove that the Therapies actually work.

Corollary:
Any person claiming to be homosexual, who is subsequently helped by some "Conversion Therapy", that worked for him or her, to become a happy fully functioning heterosexual, must, by definition, never really been a homosexual at all, but must always have been a bisexual, and the Therapy just introduced him or her to his or her other side.


So, that's the summary of the view presented by everyone here on this ATS thread.

You cannot change homosexuality by will power, because by definition it is immutable, and any actual change you find would indicate bisexuality exists instead of homosexuality. This is how homosexuality is defined.


Whether or not the "definition" reflects the underlying nature of sexuality, is a matter of "belief".

But, like any religion, we shouldn't try to change a person's belief, by "Conversion Therapies". We shouldn't try to change a Christian into a Muslim, nor a Muslim into a Christian, unless they wanted that change, and sought out the conversion on their own. The question, of course, is what to do with proselytizers, those that promote their own religion, and encourage people to change and convert. Most states are in the process of banning Conversion Therapies. So, soon, they'll all be removed from the environment, and no one will have the option to try them out for themselves. That means, anyone who "believes" in the gay doctrine that the definition of homosexuality given above represents the reality, will have no way to change that belief. You'll still be able to change from Christian to Muslim, but never from gay to straight. The doctrine of immutability has closed that option.



The only remaining problem I have, now, is how to know when a person is homosexual, verses one who just exhibits the behavior of the homosexual, but is either bisexual or heterosexual in their internal character. Where do these folks fit?

They can change, but they currently think they are homosexuals.

How to separate them out from the true homosexuals?



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

But, like any religion, we shouldn't try to change a person's belief, by "Conversion Therapies". We shouldn't try to change a Christian into a Muslim, nor a Muslim into a Christian, unless they wanted that change, and sought out the conversion on their own. The question, of course, is what to do with proselytizers, those that promote their own religion, and encourage people to change and convert. Most states are in the process of banning Conversion Therapies. So, soon, they'll all be removed from the environment, and no one will have the option to try them out for themselves. That means, anyone who "believes" in the gay doctrine that the definition of homosexuality given above represents the reality, will have no way to change that belief. You'll still be able to change from Christian to Muslim, but never from gay to straight. The doctrine of immutability has closed that option.


Unlike sexuality, people are not born with a religion. They're either indoctrinated with one or they 'find' one themselves later in life.

And there's a big difference between 'belief' and 'believe'....but of course you know this...


The only remaining problem I have, now, is how to know when a person is homosexual, verses one who just exhibits the behavior of the homosexual, but is either bisexual or heterosexual in their internal character. Where do these folks fit?

They can change, but they currently think they are homosexuals.

How to separate them out from the true homosexuals?


If a person "exhibits the behavior of the homosexual, but is either bisexual or heterosexual in their internal character" then they're homosexual/bi-sexual and not heterosexual.

You've still learnt nothing this entire time, but then I doubt you want to...



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369

Unlike sexuality, people are not born with a religion. They're either indoctrinated with one or they 'find' one themselves laterin life.


People are born into religious families. Their religion is their parents religion. That's how the majority of the people in the world get their religion. Very few adopt the religion of their choice.



If a person "exhibits the behavior of the homosexual, but is either bisexual or heterosexual in their internal character" then they're homosexual/bi-sexual and not heterosexual.


This is not true. In prison, heterosexuals practice homosexual behavior.

I thought we had already established definitively that the "sexual orientation" and "sexual behavior" were two independent and different things. You guys told me that. I was the one who said they were the same thing, you ATS said no, I was wrong, and now I am accepting your view.

It seems some here don't know what to believe.



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

No, because you can't convert someone from Homosexual to Heterosexual. and by your logic if you could, you could also Convert Heterosexual into Homosexual, but you don't support that



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

No, because you can't convert someone from Homosexual to Heterosexual. and by your logic if you could, you could also Convert Heterosexual into Homosexual, but you don't support that


The gay doctrine says you can't convert "sexual orientation" of a homosexual to "sexual orientation" of a heterosexual. But, that is something hidden within the mind of the individual, and we can't test it scientifically to prove one way or another if that position is truth.

So, the gay doctrine could be true, and anybody that opposes it has the burden of proving that position wrong. But, it's inherently unprovable. So, you can't prove the gays wrong. That's why the gays are so confident that there is no Conversion Therapy that works. Because, by their mysterious "definition" of homosexuality, Therapy can never work.

But, that's not the thing I was representing above in my last post. I now accept their definition.

The problem that remains is that homosexuals claim that for centuries they have been repressed, and forced to live a heterosexual lifestyle, because of the intolerant attitude of the outer society, caused in part by religious doctrines etc.

So, if the homosexual could adopt a heterosexual lifestyle, and easily exhibit the heterosexual behaviors, to conform to the pressures of society, the heterosexuals could just as easily adopt a homosexual lifestyle, and exhibit homosexual behaviors. Now we're dealing with the influences of the environment on the individual behavior. The behavior becomes a habit, and maybe that individual now wants to change. His inner "sexual orientation" hasn't changed, just his behavior, and new habits, which compel him now just as any other "learned behavior" developed through repetitive action, becomes internalized and part of the persons collection of habits.

A heterosexual person spends 10 years in prison, where the lack of female companionship, and social pressures of the prison environment, influence him to take up homosexual behaviors and practice that lifestyle for 10 years. After he is released from prison, he still has the habit, now learned to act like a homosexual, and so goes to gay bars to find a companion, to seek out the same-sex sexual relations that have become his habit. No therapy for him, say the gay community because once a gay always a gay.

Homosexuality is like "the roach motel", you can check in, but you can't check out.

By the way, that is the very definition spiritual groups have of a "curse". Once hexed, you stay that way.



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Hey, Mr Knowitall McRude;

Darth Prime is a living, breathing example of a homosexual. And a friend of mine, and many others.

How the hell are you telling him HIS LIFE?

SERIOUSLY?

WHERE DO YOU GET OFF with that?

Oh, wait - I forgot you're a troll.
Allow me to get you a refreshment:




posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



you are precious!.. Love



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

We claim it because it is true. we have been Murdered because of it, jailed because it it, we still get murdered from it and harassed

Homosexual is not a "Lifestyle" just like Heterosexual is not a "Lifestyle" you seem to view Homosexuality as a "One size fits all" there is only "One Gay" who exhibits "Gay" Behaviors.



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Darth Prime is a living, breathing example of a homosexual. And a friend of mine, and many others.
How the hell are you telling him HIS LIFE?



Who is talking here about his life? We're talking currently about heterosexuals who are stuck with the habit of behaving like homosexuals?

Does that description fit anyone here?



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

You can't be stuck with a "Homosexual Behavior Habit" can you even explain what that is?

How many Men that has been released from Jail continued this "Homosexual Behavior" that you talk about? again you are confusing a "Sex Act" with Sexual Orientation.


Lets say someone in Jail is Heterosexual, and in Jail they Get Raped, are you saying they are now Exhibiting a "Homosexual Behavior" and when they get out they are "Stuck" in that Behavior?

You are smarter than that, i know you are

If a Heterosexual Person in Jail decides to do 'Sex Acts' with someone of the same Sex, when they leave Jail they are still Heterosexual, unless they are Bisexual, in that case they were Bisexual before they went in Jail.

Sexual Orientation is not something you get "Stuck With"
edit on 12-10-2015 by Darth_Prime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Bahaha, heterosexuals who behave like homosexuals?

Really


Thanks for the morning laugh dude. Once again your ignorance is astounding.



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH


Does that description fit anyone here?


Yes.

Except they would call themselves homosexuals....

~Tenth




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