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Most homosexuality is a choice

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posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: pompel9
That person is not a scientist. He is a biologist


Tell me I didn't just read that?


Yes it is. But this biologist did not make a scientific paper, instead he wrote a book. I don't know about you, but that says a lot to me. Since he opted out of making a scientific paper, then he is no a scientist. You do know that scientist make scientific papers?


Um. Not every scientist has peer reviewed published papers out there. That doesn't take away from him being a scientist. Does his book cite facts? Are you really suggesting that homosexuality has not been observed in animals? I don't get the argument. It has been directly witnessed and recorded in videos in countless animals, but that's not proof for you?


Seems we have to agree to disagree. In my opinion that makes you bisexual, because you can have sex with a woman.
I can't have sex with a man. Which makes me straight. If you have read my other posts, then you have already read what I have to say about that.


It's not about can or can't. It's about whether the attraction is there or not. A gay man could surely have sex with a woman if it meant saving the human race or at the very least could try procreating without the direct sexual contact. It's about the sperm fertilizing the egg, after all, you can do that in other ways beside direct sex.


He can be both. But since he didn't write a scientific paper on this, but instead he chose to write a book tells me all I need to know. So no, he is not a scientist. He is a biologist that wrote a book in order to make money.

If there is scientific proof, then post it.


If that were possible they would be bisexual or straight.




posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: Navieko

Ah, now you want to talk about "normal" instead of "natural" ... different words, different meanings.

For many, in contradistinction to your rather narrow definition of the word, "natural" merely means "occuring in nature."

Homosexuality and homosexual behavior occur fairly regularly among humans and non-humans alike.

List of Animals

As far as "normal" in the sense of frequency then, perhaps, homosexuality is not as "normal" as heterosexuality.

But that's merely statistically. Homosexuality is "normal" to the extent that a certain percentage of any population is born that way for a constellation of reasons.

Better question: since you stated at the outset that you "have no problem with homosexuals" I wonder why it was so important to you to try to reclaim the term "natural" (or by extension "normal") for heterosexuals?

Why does that matter to you?



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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The observation of "homosexual" acts within the animal world doesn't really make any difference within the argument of natural vs unnatural behavior. There are oddities within all species of life - as would be expected. All we can go by is what is by far the most common physiological and instinctive traits within all species on Earth. Pretty clear-cut.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: Navieko
The observation of "homosexual" acts within the animal world doesn't really make any difference within the argument of natural vs unnatural behavior. There are oddities within all species of life - as would be expected. All we can go by is what is by far the most common physiological and instinctive traits within all species on Earth. Pretty clear-cut.


So now, homosexuals are "oddities" and "unnatural"?

No, why would anyone have a problem with that, eh?

Again, why does the use of the term "natural" matter to you? Why?

I'm as natural as you are. I assert that.

So what?



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Within the context of our discussion - I see no real difference when interchanging the word "natural" with "normal". If the point your trying to make is that oddities in life is a natural thing - well I can't argue with you there. Physical mutations, disease, mental illnesses, bizarre psychological traits -- these all occur naturally in life. However they are all deviations for any number of reasons - from the natural/normal physical or mental traits that one would expect when considering the anatomy and instinctive traits of an average, normal human being.
edit on 11/10/15 by Navieko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Navieko

I think we're getting somewhere ...

So, in your mind, homosexuality is the same as physical mutation, disease, mental illness and bizarre psychological traits.

The real basis is that you don't like sharing the terms natural/normal with the mutated and diseased, apparently.

Sorry.

Homosexual attraction and behavior and homosexuality is as natural and normal as heterosexuality.

Gay people are as natural and normal as anyone.

What is pretty clear-cut is that you actually do "have a problem with homosexuals" ... you think we're unnatural, abnormal, and a whole list of other adjectives ... that is, at least, in the core of your belief.

Superficially, you want to be "okay" with us, but in reality, you're not, and you don't want to share the word "normal" as if we were just as good as you.

LOL ... your beliefs are garden variety really.

In your commentary above, you fail to mention that there are also naturally (and normally) occurring VARIATIONS on the general biological themes. Variations are what biological forces do best.

In fact, in that sense, I'd wager that homosexuals play a greater biological role than the vast majority of the standard options.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation. For the record, I think as long as we're harming none, we're all natural whether we're normal or not.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Again, why does the use of the term "natural" matter to you? Why?

I'm as natural as you are. I assert that.


I'm sure physically you are as natural as God/biological evolution/adaptation intended. I do not believe having homosexual tendencies is what God/biological evolution/adaptation intended to be a natural trait within our species. I've already explained my reasons why I believe this.

Seems like we're going in circles on this - so we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

Again, I got no issues with the existence of homosexuality in our world - it is what it is, there is no choice in the matter - and we should all be accepting of this fact and learn to get along.

I'm just calling it how I see it - as this is what this forum is designed for. No insult intended.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: Navieko

I'm sure physically you are as natural as God/biological evolution/adaptation intended. I do not believe having homosexual tendencies is what God/biological evolution/adaptation intended to be a natural trait within our species. I've already explained my reasons why I believe this.


You can assign an imaginary character any intentions you want, but evolution/adaptation obviously has no intentions...



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Navieko

I have no issues with your beliefs or your opinion.

When anyone states in a public forum that homosexuality is unnatural, abnormal, equivalent to disease, mutation and deformation ... I'll correct them.

I'm simply pointing out that you are not, in essence "okay" with gays, because you view yourself (I'm assuming) as superior and more natural ... more normal than LGBT(etc) folks.

I'm here to tell you that you're not, but don't take it personally.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
You can assign an imaginary character any intentions you want, but evolution/adaptation obviously has no intentions...


My view is evolution and/or adaptation -- irregardless of our origins -- certainly does appear to move towards a clear and distinct intent: to keep living. Thus, pretty much all species have reproductive organs which can only work one way and serve one key purpose.

And just for the record I'm agnostic.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
When anyone states in a public forum that homosexuality is unnatural, abnormal, equivalent to disease, mutation and deformation ... I'll correct them.

And likewise, when someone clearly misinterprets or willfully misrepresents what I said, as you have done above, I will correct them. I did not say homosexuality is a disease, mutation or deformation. I listed some known oddities that occur within nature, which are all clearly deviations from what would be expected based on the average human anatomy and instinctive/psychological traits. I do believe homosexual traits are also a slight deviation from the expected... but certainly not on the scale as you try and make out.



I'm simply pointing out that you are not, in essence "okay" with gays, because you view yourself (I'm assuming) as superior and more natural ... more normal than LGBT(etc) folks.

So by your logic, I must also in essence not be "okay" with anyone born different to the norm... so I must hate my own brother because he was born with a particular mental condition which means he has personality traits that are not considered normal.

Far out - learning a lot about myself eh!

edit on 11/10/15 by Navieko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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The world doesn't have any gays or lesbians, just gay behavior and lesbian behavior.

This is rather simple to prove.

Let's say, for example, a girl has sex with a boy, and doesn't really enjoy it. The poor boy is ignorant, and doesn't know what to do. She then experiments with her girlfriend, and discovers there are reactions she experiences that the boy wasn't able to trigger. How many boys know, for example, that some women can get an orgasm by kissing their eyelids? They don't know. So, she thinks, "I tried a boy, didn't dig it, tried a girl, that was better, so I must be a lesbian." From then on, she only dates girls, thinking that she is a lesbian, because the society has defined such a group, so she thinks she also must be one of them. Problem is, she can't know if she is really a lesbian, until she tries another boy. The next boy she met, may have triggered all sorts of delightful reactions in her, but she doesn't know, because she didn't give that next boy a chance to date her. So, she keeps thinking that she must be gay. Until the girl has dated all the boys in the world, she can never know if there is one special boy out there for her, that would make her realize she is really straight.

This is the problem with sexuality in general. You only know your sexuality by actually having experience. When your experience is severely limited, you can't be sure. Every man and woman has a heterosexual body. So, it's all about what you think about yourself. Your orientation is a mental construct. It's an opinion. Opinions are usually formed from experiences. With limited experience, opinion is limited. None of the women claiming to be lesbians have dated enough men to be scientifically sure of their orientation. They have all fallen into the trap of thinking they are gay. But, there's no such thing, nobody can find it. People keep looking for the "gay makers" in the body, and can't find anything to define gayness.


edit on 11-10-2015 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: Navieko

I didn't misinterpret anything.

You stated that homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. You are wrong.

You brought up disease, malformation, et. al. as examples of deviations from the norm. Just happens that you're talking about homosexuality in the same sentence. You are connecting them all together under your umbrella term "deviations."

No, you're not "okay" with another person you deeply believe is unnatural and abnormal.

I have said nothing about hatred.

I'm glad you're learning about yourself though! That's the best of both worlds.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH
Every man and woman has a heterosexual body.


Nope. Wrong again.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: Prezbo369
You can assign an imaginary character any intentions you want, but evolution/adaptation obviously has no intentions...


My view is evolution and/or adaptation -- irregardless of our origins -- certainly does appear to move towards a clear and distinct intent: to keep living. Thus, pretty much all species have reproductive organs which can only work one way and serve one key purpose.

And just for the record I'm agnostic.


The only way you could possibly prescribe intent to a biological process, such as evolution, is with a heavy dose of anthropomorphism.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
You stated that homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. You are wrong.

Thanks for your opinion -- however based on the non-subjective and non-trivial evidence upon which science is based on -- it seems clear that I am in fact correct, and you are wrong.




You brought up disease, malformation, et. al. as examples of deviations from the norm. Just happens that you're talking about homosexuality in the same sentence. You are connecting them all together under your umbrella term "deviations."

No, you're not "okay" with another person you deeply believe is unnatural and abnormal.

I have said nothing about hatred.

I'm glad you're learning about yourself though! That's the best of both worlds.



I'm sorry if it hurts hearing it - but it is what it is. Be thankful you weren't born with a far more serious and hindering "deviation from the norm" and live a happy life for all is well. Unfortunately my brother's life is a lot more seriously hindered due to his condition - but at least he is accepting that for whatever reason he was born different and that his condition is not normal. It is what it is. I myself was born/raised with certain issues I don't consider normal. I'm happy to accept it and move on - why can't you?

Anyways this dragged on for far longer than I had intended. Clearly neither of us will compromise on our beliefs. We have both voiced our opinions on the matter, and that is that.

I'm off to bed. Have a good one.

edit on 11/10/15 by Navieko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

Every man and woman has a heterosexual body.

Nope. Wrong again.


Ok. So, what are the differences between the homosexual body type and the heterosexual body type.

Educate us, please.
edit on 11-10-2015 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Every man and woman has a heterosexual body.

Nope. Wrong again.


Ok. So, what are the differences between the homosexual body type and the heterosexual body type.

Educate us, please.


There's no such thing as a heterosexual body, a bi-sexual body or a homosexual body....just the human body.

I really cannot imagine any spirit, ghost, God or fat bald guy having a good impression of you from the posts you've made in this thread, doesn't that worry your eternal soul?



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Every man and woman has a heterosexual body.

Nope. Wrong again.


Ok. So, what are the differences between the homosexual body type and the heterosexual body type.

Educate us, please.


None. They don't exist. There is no "homosexual nor heterosexual body type."

You've made that up. It's not a real thing. It only exists in your mind.



posted on Oct, 11 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
There's no such thing as a heterosexual body, a bi-sexual body or a homosexual body....just the human body.


Good. So, you agree that there is only one body type. No distinction between gays and straights. They share exactly the same body. You call it human body. I call it heterosexual body, because it is designed for reproductive sex, has overlies, womb, testicles, etc.. all there for the purpose of producing new "human bodies" from the sex act. "Hetero" simply means, requiring two "opposite sex" partners to facilitate the proper functioning of the body, including all of its design parameters.

Don't worry about the fat bald guy's impression of me, he and I get on just fine. There's too much worry on this site, about what other people think about this or that person. Let's just get the definitions, get educated, and find the truth through dialog.



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