Most homosexuality is a choice

I happen to think sexuality is a broad spectrum, like many things in life. Not as definitive as one or the other. It's probably why you have some guys don't fully realise it until they have a wife and kids then they realise something doesn't feel right and they have just been playing out the role society demands men to comply to

originally posted by: cuckooold
a reply to: Darth_Prime

Love it !!!

I bagsies star in the sequel. I can see it now 'The gay agenda too'

Watch the fresh horrors gay's have unleashed. See them pet a cat, mourn the loss of family time as they go camping and writhe uncomfortably as you see them wash the car and vacuum the carpet!

Its gonna be a box office smash!

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Either way, why cant some people be hard wired with an additional switch that lets them choose what they want when they want?

If we can accept the idea that people can be hard wired in two different configurations, why not three?

No one is saying that they can't choose. The third one you mentioned is what is called bisexuality.

[edit] By choosing I mean you can't choose to be who you are attracted to. You can choose the BEHAVIOR not the ATTRACTION.

If at Heaven's gate we find out I was right, so be it. And if we find out I was wrong, so be it.

And if we find out that nobody was right or wrong?

The way I figure it is that the people who claim to know that homosexuality is a choice must have bisexual atraction to both sexes and choose one sex. Otherwise they wouldn't claim sexual orientation is a choice.

They may even find it strange that others only are attracted to one sex and not the other then we get threads like this one as a result.

5% of the Population is completely Homosexual,
5% of the population is completley hetrosexual
90% of the population is between completely gay or completely straight

Most homophobes are on the spectrum between both these extremes and it confuses their little minds and thus they lash out (and create threads on ATS bashing folk) whilst dealing with their own inner demons.

And thus, I agree with the OP (shock, Horror) and most adults do make a choice between who they wish to shag as they have that ability as they are bisexual. Those of us that are completely straight or gay do not have that option of a choice as we are at the extreme ends of human sexuality.

Anyone purporting it is a choice, then you're in the 90% bracket along with most of your peers. Huge difference between Homosexuality being a choice and being bisexual and being able to make the choice!!

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: jimmyx
are you sexually attracted to women, skyfloating?.....and if you are, could you make a choice to change that attraction to men?....I can't, and at 62 years old, I'm still sexually attracted to women, never once being attracted to men.

Given certain circumstances - say having a lifelong prison sentence and being surrounded by men only for example - my preferences for women might change.

In Saudi Arabia, for instance, because there is Apartheid between men and women, homosexuality is much more common.

Then in answer to the posters question, you're bisexual, stop getting that confused with homosexuality!

I have this theory, you can only make a thread like this if you have some sort of experience. Let me explain. If OP was purely heterosexual, then it should make sense to them that it is very hard to turn yourself homosexual just for the lulz. In the same way it is very unlikely [not impossible, because the body reacts to hormones] to 'turn' or 'sure' someone whose preference happens to be the same sex. You just can't shag what you are not attracted to, just to get attention! If you don't believe me, try it OP!

Therefore I have to assume that OP had homosexual thoughts or urges but managed somehow to keep them under control and overwrite them [loosely] by behaving in what he/she thinks is more acceptable. Because he/she has managed to do this, he/she has formed the opinion that others can do the same. This is where the righteousness comes from.
"Look, I can do it, so I don't understand why you can't".

A lot of gay people have tried and are trying right now to do the same. However in the vast majority of cases it doesn't go very well, meaning that depression or anxiety are ripe amongst those pretenders.
Often they commit suicide < something I can NOT imagine being something anything strives to do.

This article is for OP: www.rainbow-project.org...

As we grow up we are taught the values of our society. In our homophobic, heterosexist, discriminatory culture, we may learn negative ideas about homosexuality and same-sex attraction. Like everyone else, LGB people may be socialised into thinking that being non-heterosexual is somehow “mad”, “bad”, “wrong” or “immoral”. This can lead to feelings of self-disgust and self-hatred. These feelings can lead to “internalised homophobia” also known as “internalised oppression”.

What is internalised homophobia?

Internalised homophobia and oppression happens to gay, lesbian and bisexual people, and even heterosexuals, who have learned and been taught that heterosexuality is the norm and “correct way to be”. Hearing and seeing negative depictions of LGB people can lead us to internalise, or take in, these negative messages. Some LGB people suffer from mental distress as a result.

A general sense of personal worth and also a positive view of your sexual orientation are critical for your mental health. You, like many lesbian, gay and bisexual people, may have hidden your sexual orientation for a long time. Research carried out in Northern Ireland into the needs of young LGBT people in 2003 revealed that the average age for men to realise their sexual orientation was 12, yet the average age they actually confided in someone was 17. It is during these formative years when people are coming to understand and acknowledge their sexual orientation that internalised homophobia can really affect a person.

Internalised homophobia manifests itself in varying ways that can be linked to mental health. Examples include:

01. Denial of your sexual orientation to yourself and others.

02. Attempts to alter or change your sexual your orientation.

03. Feeling you are never good enough.

04. Engaging in obsessive thinking and/or compulsive behaviours.

05. Under-achievement or even over-achievement as a bid for acceptance.

06. Low self esteem, negative body image.

07. Contempt for the more open or obvious members of the LGBT community.

08. Contempt for those at earlier stages of the coming out process.

09. Denial that homophobia, heterosexism, biphobia or sexism are serious social problems.

10. Contempt for those that are not like ourselves or contempt for those who seem like ourselves. Sometimes distancing by engaging in homophobic behaviours – ridicule, harassment, verbal or physical attacks on other LGB people.

11. Projection of prejudice onto another target group.

12. Becoming psychologically abused or abusive or remaining in an abusive relationship.

13. Attempts to pass as heterosexual, sometimes marrying someone of the other sex to gain social approval or in hope of ‘being cured’.

14. Increased fear and withdrawal from friend and relatives.

15. Shame or depression; defensiveness; anger or bitterness.

16. School truancy or dropping out of school. Also, work place absenteeism or reduced productivity.

17. Continual self-monitoring of one’s behaviours, mannerisms, beliefs, and ideas.

18. Clowning as a way of acting out society’s negative stereotypes.

19. Mistrust and destructive criticism of LGBT community leaders.

20. Reluctance to be around or have concern for children for fear of being seen as a paedophile.

21. Conflicts with the law.

22. Unsafe sexual practices and other destructive risk-taking behaviours-including risk for HIV and other STIs.

23. Separating sex and love, or fear of intimacy. Sometimes low or lack of sexual drive or celibacy.

24. Substance abuse, including drink and drugs.

25. Thinking about suicide, attempting suicide, committing suicide.

In their book, “Pink Therapy”, Davies & Neal (1996) illustrate some examples of how internalised homophobia and oppression may affect gay and bisexual men. Some of these examples include:

Fear of discovery:
where a person may try to hide his sexual orientation from family, friends, work colleagues, etc, by “passing” as straight. He may also “pass” to protect others, i.e. pretending that his partner with whom he lives with is “just a good mate”.

Discomfort with other gay people:
men who prefer not to socialise on the gay scene for fear that they will be seen going to/from those venues despite being comfortable going to gay bars when abroad on holiday, or the man who chooses not to speak to another gay man at work because “he is a bit camp and people may put two and two together”.

Heterophobia:
putting down or even avoiding heterosexuals is an example of reverse discrimination from some gay and bisexual people to heterosexual people.

Feeling superior to heterosexuals:
the idea that gay people are “better” than heterosexuals. Examples include attitudes such as “gay men have a better dress sense than straight men” or “gay men are better listeners than straight men”.

Being attracted to unavailable people:
an example may be a gay man who happens to “be in love with a friend who’s straight”. When this pattern of being attracted to unavailable men is repeated over and over, it may be the result of internalised homophobia.

Short-term relationships:
an example could be the person who works long hours, has a hectic lifestyle, and when a partner wants to get to know you that bit more, you may decide that your life is too busy for a relationship and that you want to “keep things simple”.

Internalised homophobia and oppression can have a huge impact on your mental health, as well as influence your thoughts, feelings, and behaviours.

Davies & Neal believe that it is virtually impossible for any gay or bisexual man who has grown up in the UK or Ireland not to have internalised society’s negative messages about homosexuality.

If you would like to undertake some personal therapy to help you deal with internalised oppression, please see our counselling section for more information.

a reply to: Skyfloating

It is rather a loaded statement though, in fairness. In all honesty, everything in this world is a choice, even where chemical impulse is involved.

Can someone please explain to me why people get so het up over LGBT? I am not trolling or looking for arguments, i simply genuinely do not understand why it is even an issue what sexual orientation someone is. Not just in terms of sexuality though, this is in all spheres of life. As long as you are not forcing yourself or your views on someone or something, then why is it anyone else's concern what you get up to?

What some people see as offensive, others fail to even "see". What some see as unnatural, others see as natural. What some see as choice, others see as essential. Basically, everyone is different so what is the issue?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Yet another LGBT Bash thread? I honestly don't think I can handle it! Why didn't you post in the one that's already 17 pages long?

So what if it's not a choice?

Those who have eyes to see, know that the music industries, mainstream media, implant these ideas inside peoples heads. Watch closely at cartoons and anything people watch from T.V and pay attention at to how people act within time.

I am pretty SURE, if you use the scientific method, take 2 groups of people. Group A and Group B. Group A Doesn't watch T.V but Group B does. Within time, just like you do with mice, it WILL show, results with group B having these thoughts implanted. Television is one of the ULTIMATE tools for manipulation. In FACT it is currently their number 1 tool. Anything that suggests a thought through the use of symbolism.

Try this experiment; this is the only sure way to answer this question. And If I was a rich man, I would go all in and place my bet that group B will end up influenced.

It got nothing to do against those who prefer the different gender as a partner. It has everything to do with, influence, and social engineering. In other words, subconscious CONVERSION through manipulation.

With that being said, if there is subconscious manipulation without our awareness. Is it even a choice? Awareness of this would make it a choice. People are confused with what they are exposed to.

So I guess you know since you are a homosexual by choice? Otherwise you don't know do you?

originally posted by: flammadraco


Then in answer to the posters question, you're bisexual, stop getting that confused with homosexuality!

I`ll define myself, thank you very much.

My desire has been and is for women. That would make me heterosexual.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
People have actually studied why women seem to be able to be heterosexual, and then turn homosexual and back again:

This is actually one bit of information I learned in this thread. I didn't know that women are more "fluid" (well...I did know, but I didn't apply it to their sexual orientation )

originally posted by: Moors


Why? Why do you care? Who are you to tell others how their sexual preferences developed. IMO being so obsessively interested in the origins others sexuality is a sign of a megalomaniac.

Obsessively interested? This is my first thread on the subject (and I`m a member here since 10 years). I am more interested in the notions of nature vs. nurture and choice vs. pre-determination.

I`m also fascinated by the emotionalism (as opposed to the calm rationalism inherent in scientific truth) of some of the responders here

originally posted by: Skyfloating
The myth of our times is that homosexuality is not a choice and I`d much prefer that this dogma be examined in more detail and that it be acknowledged that much or at least some of it actually is a choice as well as a consequence of childhood experiences.

'It's not a choice' is a slogan not a full argument.

It may be used incorrectly, it may be used as an argument, but the research / clarifications are out there.

My personal experience comes from sexual relationships I've had with two lesbians within the last 20 years. I`m a heterosexual male. Neither of the women claimed to be bisexual, both insisted they were lesbian. (sic) self-definition is not quite as fixed and solid as is generally claimed.

It's a researched / known phenomenon that shifts in hormones such as menopause may cause changes in sexual attitudes or full blown homosexuality. There are research papers on it out there, and discussions about it on women's menopause support forums etc ...

Note that this doesn't mean that sexuality is suddenly entirely reliant on hormones, but people's sudden surprise at this happening indicates lack of decision in the feelings (not the actions).

Lot of this information isn't new, and the reason for the confusion is often due to straw person arguments or debating techniques using the adage ... to win an argument I don't have to prove I'm right, I just need to prove you wrong.

If you want an even more disturbing example, some brain tumors can cause heterosexual men to adopt paedophiliac urges. There are also plenty of mundane examples that draw serious doubt on free will in a lot of areas, not just this one.

People sometimes have sex for reasons which are 'choice related. People can feel pressured into one or another sexual identity for whatever reason. People's attitudes on sex will alter how the perceive the activity. Etc etc etc ... However, there are sexual feelings humans have which are, for the most part, involuntary even if they are impacted by social norms, culture, upbringing, and biology.

Even if we removed the biology component, most people only get a narrow set of choices in regard to their social and cultural circumstances.

Is 'I was born this way' entirely accurate and descriptive? Maybe not. Is 'you chose to be this way' more correct? My experiences and reading would say no.

a reply to: Skyfloating

You always going to find the groups in which homosexuality is a choice and perhaps a way to experiment, but is also the real people that have the feeling that they do not belong in the sex they where born with, if you believe in soul incarnation is a very good explanation as why this happen to some.

But you are right for some is a choice and occurs you have to understand that we humans have free will and experiencing human interaction is all part of the human experience

Nothing wrong with that.

originally posted by: Badgered1


Attraction is not a choice. It isn't 'curable.' It's just preferences. I like peanut butter on toast, you might not. I won't judge you because you have a preference.

Bad example. I loved peanut butter as a teenager. Today I don't like it. Attractions change.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

So do you just prefer the opposite sex?

There's a simple test for this "choice" theory.
Take a guy home and see how far you get.

I think people claiming it's a choice are saying more about themselves and their own struggles with sexuality.
If it comes down to preference then you are probably bi.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Right now I cannot choose to be homosexual because I am turned off by it. But had I had other experiences as a child I may have been nurtured into preferring men.

originally posted by: Vasteel

So what if it is a choice?
Who you like to get it on with is up to you.

So what? Well, if it's mostly a choice we can learn more about the nature of free will vs. predetermination.

originally posted by: Flavian


Can someone please explain to me why people get so het up over LGBT? I am not trolling or looking for arguments, i simply genuinely do not understand why it is even an issue what sexual orientation someone is. Not just in terms of sexuality though, this is in all spheres of life. As long as you are not forcing yourself or your views on someone or something, then why is it anyone else's concern what you get up to?

It`s not an issue to me. I don't care what other people do in their private time. I do care about the "we don't have free will" movement that is becoming more and more mainstream. That movement may turn into stuff like "I didn't choose to steal that money. I was born that way".

a reply to: Flavian

People don't like different
That's abundantly clear in many areas of life....the "different" people are the ones picked on, outcast, ridiculed, laughed at