Most homosexuality is a choice

originally posted by: DaveNorris
a reply to: Annee

Until my son was 4 he thought that if someone had long hair they were a girl and if they had short hair they were a boy.

You're discussing gender now, not sex.

Gender is a socially-constructed concept.

originally posted by: Barcs

We are talking about HUMANS. Humans have rights.

Wait a minute. I wasn't the one claiming that homosexuality in humans must be natural, because animals do it.

Who gets to pick which animal behavior is a good example for patterns of acceptable human behavior?

Gays and lesbians were claiming that it's all over nature, hence proof that it's natural.

Animal lovers can make exactly the same claim. Who says animals can't consent? They do it all the time. Many animal females push away unwanted advances from some males, while encouraging advances from the particular male they decide to mate with. That's consent. It exists among the animals too. Humans aren't the only ones that can consent to sex.

a reply to: DaveNorris

They don't have to Understand the Concept for them to be born with it. do children Understand the Concept of why they have their Hair Color, Eye Color, Height or Weight?

a reply to: AMPTAH

How about it's Natural/Normal because we are Born from Humans?

a reply to: Gryphon66

I dont see the problem with the point I'm making, if you cannot correctly assign a gender how can you determine between heterosexual and homosexual

The basis of something being "natural" only means it occurs in nature.

That is only one component of the argument that gays, lesbians, bisexuals, etc., have the right to be who they are.

Although some seem to be quite obsessed with bestiality, perhaps we should focus on reality.

Gay and lesbian HUMANS are normal. Gay and lesbian sex between consenting HUMAN adults is normal.

Next?

a reply to: Darth_Prime

I didnt say you were wrong, I said there was no way to prove/disprove the point. Either of us could be right, and as I said, it was my opinion

originally posted by: DaveNorris
a reply to: Gryphon66

I dont see the problem with the point I'm making, if you cannot correctly assign a gender how can you determine between heterosexual and homosexual

Sexuality is not based on gender, per se.

Gender is more focused on standard societal expectations of what makes up "male" and "female."

For example, "long hair" is considered "female" by some, but not by others.

Society, not sex.

I'm only pointing out, gently I thought, that the matter is more complex than you were representing.

a reply to: DaveNorris


"Gender-Identity" and "Sexual-Orientation" are separate and don't always "Match". we are born with a Gender-Identity, we are Born with a Sexual-Orientation and at Birth we are assigned a "Sex" (Male/Female) based on the person who birthed you, but that does not always Match your Gender-Identity or Sexual-Orientation and does nNot define your Gender-Identity

originally posted by: DaveNorris
a reply to: Annee

Until my son was 4 he thought that if someone had long hair they were a girl and if they had short hair they were a boy.

Gender has nothing to do with sexuality.

We are born sexual beings. We are born with a sexual orientation.

I suggested researching sexuality from birth, even in young kids, because you seem logical and willing to learn. It might surprise you.

I feel like the OP described confused/horny college women on journeys of their own self-discovery. Young adults go through many phases, and I, myself, have witnessed many band-wagon lesbians who had adapted the whole "If you don't try something, how do you know you don't like it?" motto. So yes, there may be some who "choose" to be gay, but those are like the women who "choose" a football team because their new boyfriend is a die hard fan.

I have watched two immediate family members struggle from birth to accept themselves, and come out to the world. With my father being a minister, my brother was very scared to come out. Once he did, he couldn't handle my father's disapproval and pretended to be straight for years. Even dated and proposed to a Christian woman. Eventually he left her for a man and loves life as his true gay and merry self. My nephew who, as soon as he could talk, asked for a "My Little Pony" every year for Christmas. Picked high heels over footballs. Barbies over skateboards. We never asked, just let him be. He came out on his 15th birthday. If you sat these two men down and asked them if they could "choose" to be gay all over again.. Would they? They would say no. The pain, self-hatred, confusion, and judgment at times is enough for some people to want to end their lives.. when being gay is something that is completely natural, it can't be forced and it can't be ignored. Humans are extremely sexual beings, who cares what gets people off?

There are more likely more bisexuals than we normally admit to ourselves societally.

All the anecdotal tales of "I knew a guy/girl ... " are more than likely based in that fact.

a reply to: Annee

That seems like a Google search that would be ill advised.

Anyways, we seem to habe deviated from the subject. Ive expressed my opinion on the Op (that sexuality is not a choice, nor is it genetic) I think the argument of gender/sexuality in children should be left to another thread

a reply to: Gryphon66

Honestly, I don't know about bisexuals. I think it's more of a perversion and less of a sexual orientation. In my experience, it's younger people who are confused about their identity and experimenting. But you're right--there's a whole lot of them.

originally posted by: DaveNorris
a reply to: Annee

That seems like a Google search that would be ill advised.

Anyways, we seem to habe deviated from the subject. Ive expressed my opinion on the Op (that sexuality is not a choice, nor is it genetic) I think the argument of gender/sexuality in children should be left to another thread

Point taken. But, that's not what I was suggesting.

It has been. Sexuality - - NOT Sex.

originally posted by: Annee
It has been. Sexuality - - NOT Sex.

And the difference is? What you want to do, verses what you actually do?

I don't get these fine distinctions.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

How about it's Natural/Normal because we are Born from Humans?

The thing is humans are part animal and part non-animal.

We can rise above our animal nature, or sink below towards it.

When our actions come from our built in innate tendencies, we operate on the level of the animal.

When our actions are governed by logic and reason, we rise above the animal nature.

So, what people refer to as the moral decline of the modern society, is its regression to behaviors that are more akin to the animal kingdom, than to the elevated men and women we aspire to be.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Yep, I've seen plenty of cross species action down on the farm. Thing is the animals object and get violent back, so no actual sexual activity takes place.

Therefore it can logically deduced that the animals do not consent and are aware that it is wrong.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Wait a minute. I wasn't the one claiming that homosexuality in humans must be natural, because animals do it.

You are completely missing the point of the argument. Homosexuality IS natural BECAUSE animals do it. Nobody said that it is RIGHT because animals do it. Numerous folks have come into the thread stating that homosexuality is unnatural. The homosexuality in nature argument is a direct refutation of that bogus claim. It's not a statement of right or wrong. It's a statement of fact. It occurs in the nature, therefor it is natural. That's what natural means.

Who gets to pick which animal behavior is a good example for patterns of acceptable human behavior?

I don't think humans should look at animals at all to determine acceptable human behavior. Why would you look to a less intelligent species to see what to do? It's like asking a 5 year old for dating advice.


It's really simple. Before you do something, think to yourself, "Are my actions harming anybody else or causing suffering? Would I object if I was in his shoes?" If the answer is yes, find something else to do. If the answer is no, then enjoy yourself, c'est la vie! We have a built in moral compass that Jesus was trying to teach about and it seems a large amount of the so called followers completely missed the message.

Gays and lesbians were claiming that it's all over nature, hence proof that it's natural.

Technically that IS proof that it is natural. And it's not just gays that claim that. Scientists all over the world have observed it.

The thing is humans are part animal and part non-animal.

No. Humans are 100% animal. We are just smarter than all the others. You can pretend that humans are magically above the animal kingdom, but it's not even remotely close to reality. We all share the planet. We just have the ability to talk about it and think about it. We are intelligent animals.

a reply to: AMPTAH

How is that Proof that Homosexuality is Wrong or Abnormal? or a Choice?