Most homosexuality is a choice

People have a choice on whether to live celibate lives, but cannot ever really change who they are attracted to. However, people are people, and I don't think it out of the question that a gay person could fall in love with a member of the opposite sex. It would have to be a "one in a million". Likewise, I tell straight people who are homophobic this when they argue that they are not gay and could never be gay - maybe they haven't met the right guy yet! I truly believe that sexual orientation is a lot more fluid than most brainwashed people imagine. They also disregard the presence of LOVE. You can absolutely fall in love with a member of your own gender, even if you never have before. Or the opposite gender. Love knows no bounds, and is not linked exclusively to sexual desire. I'm not saying this as a hetero either, I am asexual, but I am not aromantic, so am fully open to a romantic relationship if one were to come along with the right Person. Someone I loved, who I could laugh and relax with, share ideas and appreciate each other's minds.

a reply to: AMPTAH

So changing ones orientation is simply a matter of changing your perspective on life.

...and yet the vast majority of people [from all orientations] claim they don't have a choice, that it endures throughout their life, and the attempts with conversion therapy have been unsuccessful.

Since you seem so confident in your knowledge on how this 'change of perspective' is achieved, perhaps you could actually outline the process in depth?? You know, more than just saying "meditate" or making it analogous to smoking habits.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: TheLamb

John 15 18-21: If the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of this world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... if they persecuted me they also persecuted you because they do not know Him that sent me.
Gays have been hated by the world for centuries, kicked out and persecuted. Jesus chooses us out of the world and the world hates us just as you do.

Nah. The world does not hate gays. Part of the world does. The other part loves them. If it were not so, there would be no law protecting gays and lesbians today. Gays and lesbians would not be able to marry. They get to marry, because lots of the world loves them. Homosexuals sin, but so do heterosexuals. All the sinners love each other. They may have different types of sin, but nobody is sinless. Just being hated and persecuted does not automatically make you Jesus' pick. You have to be hated and persecuted "for your righteousness", not "for your sins". You have to be Jailed like Kim Davis, for your right actions, and suffer mental torture, believing in your heart you're doing right by your faith, and have the state powers tell you that you're wrong and punish you for that belief. That's the persecution. It's a persecution for righteous actions. That's why Kim Davis gets an audience with the Pope. To tell her to "stay strong".

Don't confuse the fact, that Jesus hung out with the sinners, with the rewards for sin itself. Its the same reason that the Pope is trying to embrace gays and lesbians today. Those that sin the most are most in need of hearing the word. The pope wants all gays and lesbians to be in his church, to hear the message daily. But they are not saved, until they come and hear the word, and grasp what it says, and repent.

Oh what a shame. You didn't comment on my Thomas conclusion.

Kim Davis was imprisoned because she herself led into captivity. She denied gays the freedom to marry. Rev 13.

Yes, Jesus mixed with sinners but there is no mention of homosexuals. Why's that then?

No matter how righteous you are, straights still carry the sin of Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. The sorrow of childbirth is a heterosexual phenomenon. The sorrow of eating from the ground and eating bread is also a heterosexual phenomenon as homosexuals only were given animals and fruit from trees to eat in Genesis, twice. Heterosexuals stole that and are still breaking the 7/8 commandment. They can never be 100% righteous while that continues.

Remember that the 144000 are the first fruits of God from Gen 1:27 and were sent out as God's seven spirits into the world as they were created in the Divine Image, the seven eyes of the Lamb in Revelation. Adam was the second fruit and made from mud. Eve was the third fruit and made from a rib.

How God laughs at you and your mistakes. But then He has been ribbing man since Adam!

originally posted by: TheLamb
Kim Davis was imprisoned because she herself led into captivity. She denied gays the freedom to marry. Rev 13.

The thing we know about sex, is that people will lie, cheat, steal, and do all manner of things, just to taste the sugar, and fulfill their lusts for the flesh. That includes twisting all doctrine to fit the view that allow them to satisfy their desires. So, for a gay person, every doctrine of scripture will have some hidden approval of his or her sin. It's either archaic and outdated, or clearly approving the gay lifestyle. That's just the lust talking, and thinking. The Loins are in control of the brain. First, you need to disconnect the itching of the loins from the mental activity of the mind, to begin to see clearly. You can do that with meditation. Provided you meditate the correct way. You have to disconnect the spirit from the flesh. If your meditation has not advanced to that stage, you can't know what I'm talking about. You have to experience it. So, just go find someone who teaches meditation and learn.

Yes, Jesus mixed with sinners but there is no mention of homosexuals. Why's that then?

Jesus didn't say anything about transsexuals either. There's a lot of things Jesus didn't say. We "today", have lots of different classifications for people. There were none of these classifications back then. There was just the "actions" that people do. The actions were considered good or evil. The people doing them were small sinners or big sinners. But, the people were just people. Today we look at some activity, label it, then group all people who do that activity in some class, then give the class a "name", which then becomes "a special identity" for the group. This allows the people with that identity for "fight for their rights" to continue to do their activity, etc..but, back in Jesus' time there were only good people and wicked people.

Jesus preaches against all forms of lust of the flesh. His was a message of the spirit. That was the focus. Not all the things that occupy a person lusting for things of the world.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
So changing ones orientation is simply a matter of changing your perspective on life.

Yes, it's that simple in principle. But, difficult in practice. You have to want to change. But, the thing about lust, is that many people want the lust more than they want to change. Sex is something that when you practice it, you get more hungry for it. So, you get deeper and deeper into whatever "orientation" you're "initiated" into. It doesn't matter which form of sexuality you pick. If you start having sex with animals, you'll become attached to those animals, and become more and more "drawn in" to bestiality. You can direct your lusts to many different things. For humans, it's whatever is conveniently "available" to the person, that will become the orientation.

...and yet the vast majority of people [from all orientations] claim they don't have a choice, that it endures throughout their life, and the attempts with conversion therapy have been unsuccessful.

Sex is a drug. A powerful one. Like any smoker or drug addict, it's difficult, in practice, to change the habit.

In principle, it's easy to change the habits. You have to do something different. But, the mind will always bring the person back to old habits. So, it's easier said than done.

The things is, if you don't see a habit as a problem, there's no reason to change it.

If you "define" some activity as good. Then, there's nothing to change anymore. Why would you want to change a good thing?

The first thing required for change, is recognition that some thing is not good. Then, and only then, can anyone set about trying to change.

a reply to: AMPTAH

You still seem to have issue with understanding the difference between the sex act itself and the underlying attraction which defines an orientation. We are not making progress on that front. So never mind about my inquiry into your thoughts about changing an orientation..

Instead I'm more interested in why you think I would want to see this "habit" as a problem to begin with? I don't think there is anything wrong with being sexually liberated, regardless of orientation. I don't think it's something that needs to be controlled and suppressed. Is your rationale for this primarily religious in nature? I'm an anti-theist, so you'd have to sell me on religion before you could then sell me your anti-gay/anti-sex sentiments.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Have you noticed the most anti gay folk on ATS are actually fighting their urge not to be gay?.
I think many are gay but deny their true feelings.
AMPTAH refuses to tell us when he chose to be straight because he knows God makes people gay but If he admits this it means their is no sin in being gay and it shoots down their whole argument.

Just because you believe it, doesn't make it so.

Homosexual LOVE is not a choice. Homosexual SEX is definitely a choice.

originally posted by: babybunnies
Just because you believe it, doesn't make it so.

Homosexual LOVE is not a choice. Homosexual SEX is definitely a choice.

Well yes, LOVE is different from SEX.

Father loves his children, but doesn't have sex with them.

God loves his children, and hates their sins, but doesn't have sex with them.

A man can love another man, where no sex is involved.

In fact, the only true test of love, is to give without requiring sex in return.

So, if two men love each other, and can both abstain from sex, then that is true love.

That's the kind of love Jesus preached.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. KJV, Mark 12:31

Of course, the command doesn't mean, hop over your neighbour's fence and have sex with him or her.

LOVE is a choice, but it is a good choice. Love everyone. But, don't confuse Love with Lust. They are two different words for two different things.

You don't need to get married for love. Only need to marry for sex.

You're supposed to love everyone, but you can't marry everyone.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, .... KJV, Matthew 5:44

You're supposed to have sex with just your spouse, that's why you marry, to make it exclusive.

But, of course, when a gay person says love, its misdirection. The lust has stolen a good word to hide the sex behind.

a reply to: AMPTAH

"You're supposed to have sex with just your spouse, that's why you marry, to make it exclusive. "

Maybe thats why God has allowed marriage for all.

a reply to: AMPTAH

So gay sex is bad. Sex outside of wedlock is bad.

About sum it up?

We hear this all the time from the religious.

I see no reason to believe there is anything morally wrong with same-sex relationships, or having sex prior to marriage. Many of us don't share your religious foundation.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Have you noticed the most anti gay folk on ATS are actually fighting their urge not to be gay?.

It certainly seems that way pretty often.

I think many are gay but deny their true feelings.

Gay or bisexual. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were true for many of them. I don't think religious scripture alone is an adequate explanation for some of their obsessive interest in the matter!

Sigh, I personally do not care about people's sexual orientation.. YET I also believe it is a choice made by homo sapiens to be homosexual.

We are the only species who choose to be attracted to the same sex..

Other animals do not do this..

If it was genetic I think we would see it in other animals..

Quite frankly thou I don't give a crap..

As long as your happy and love your partner who gives a #.

Just have manners folks.

a reply to: Bicent76

Erm yes they do around 150 other animals have been seen being homosexual.
Let me ask you something when did you choose to be straight?.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Bicent76

I also believe it is a choice made by homo sapiens to be homosexual.

And yet science, research and experience proves you wrong.

If it was genetic I think we would see it in other animals

Um homosexuality has been observed in the animal kingdom.

a reply to: Bicent76

We do see it in the Animal Kingdom my friend.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

in birds? Let me rephrase... MAMMALS

Again I really dont care... I dont want to argue about it...

a reply to: Bicent76

en.wikipedia.org...


Next....
So have you changed your view now knowing it is natural and not a choice.
I noticed you didn't answer my question which proves my point.
Did you choose to be straight?.
oh and we do not argue we discuss.

a reply to: boymonkey74

oh now giraffe's?? Erm ok.. Your right...

I guess...

I guess being homosexual is an Anomaly in Nature... Leave it at that..