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Most homosexuality is a choice

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posted on Sep, 30 2015 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Persecution? Is it persecution to call somebody out on a severely outdated religious philosophy? I'm sorry but what you call persecution today is an absolute joke compared with what used to happen. Allowing 2 people that love each other to get married, really brings pain and suffering to religious folk, right? How can somebody's happiness make YOU miserable? That does not compute to me. The church is outdated. It needs to get with the times, but based on the way it's headed, the pope will be approving of gay marriage soon.

In the post above you are speaking as if the bible is fact. It is not. There was never any Adam and Eve. Humans evolved over time in populations that never dipped below 1000 as that would be unsustainable.




posted on Sep, 30 2015 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

Divine Command Theory is the belief that what is moral comes from god, and to be moral is to follow what god commands. That's the most poisonous aspect of religion in my strong opinion. It allows religious people to think something that would otherwise be viewed as a horrendous thing is a positive thing. Like blowing yourself up in order to kill people in the name of god. It also allows the religious to hate fellow humans that simply want to love each other because god allegedly doesn't approve.


Well, most religion undervalues the flesh. This is a fact.



For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: KJV, 1 Peter 1:24


The whole idea behind religion, is that time spent in the flesh is learning time. Like school. The living thing is the spirit that dwells in the flesh. This spirit is not destroyed. You can't kill it. Death of the spirit, is actually the condition of it falling into the flesh, and forgetting its true nature. In this condition, it is really sleeping, and needs to be "awoken" back into life. For those that have awoken, the remainder of humanity are walking about the planet like Zombies, feasting on each other, running after each other to satisfy their "lusts" for contact with flesh. There's no religion that "hates" fellow humans. What they hate is the flesh, and lustful state, the sins, etc..Each deals with this differently. The Buddhists sit and meditate, try to avoid indulging in the lusts of the flesh. Others try to walk about in the flesh and manage it, using rules and guide books to walk the fine line between good and evil deeds.

All the drama that you see, Buddhists setting themselves on fire in Sri Lanka or Tibet, Muslims blowing themselves up in the middle east, Christians self immolating themselves for penance, etc..are a result of devaluing the flesh relative to the spirit. What you interpret as hate, is love for the spirit.

Someone who is truly religious cannot be controlled by any earthly power.

Most people are not that devout. They have one foot in the religion, and one foot in the earthly society. So, then we have the concept of "extremists". These are people who become totally committed to the faith. They cannot be controlled. There is nothing you can offer them. What they do with their time in the flesh, depends on their religion. The monks of Mount Athos, isolate themselves, and ban all women from their island, so they can sit and contemplate in peace, without the distractions of lusts.

Now I think that a person who doesn't believe in religion, is entitled to do as he likes. The body has a design to give pain and pleasure according to the actions. So, there is already an automatic guide book, which is your own body, that you can use to set the course using your own moral compass.

However, there is one thing to note. The reason for religion, is that your actions today, do not necessarily produce an immediate response. Many things you do, that seem pleasurable now, produce pain down the road at a later time. And it takes a long time to connect the dots. Since there is no "instant feedback" in many cases, it is likely that a man or woman will take the wrong path. Example, a man and woman may have sex today, it's pleasurable, but nine months later the consequence comes, a new mouth to feed. The immediate feedback, the pleasure, was not the response that has the most "weight" on your life, the arrival of the child affects you for decades afterworlds. That's how powerful the act of sex is. That should be a clue, that things in this world are "bitter sweet". For the sake of a little sugar, there is lots of bitters to swallow. So, religion give some guidance to avoid the bitters that come later, by advising men and women how to walk the planet today. Some people get upset, when they see their fellow natives being led astray by the glitter and the draw of the instant sugars promoted by those who know better. And they take various actions, that in their minds, help out their fellow man. It all contributes to the drama.



posted on Sep, 30 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs
The church is outdated. It needs to get with the times, but based on the way it's headed, the pope will be approving of gay marriage soon.


It will be a cold day in hell, before the Pope approves gay marriage. Homosexuals are accepted in the church to "hear" the word of the lord, but theirs is not an activity that the church can promote. Besides, the Pope just invited Kim Davis to a private meeting to praise her and give her full support for her stand against gay marriage. The Pope loves gays and lesbians, but not what they do. He wants to include them in the congregation to hear the message, but not to promote their lifestyle. This Pope is a Jesuit, and they are even more strict than your ordinary Priest. They follow the law more closely than all the other sects out there. So, don't expect gay marriage from a Jesuit Priest. They have taken a vow of poverty, practice restraint, and cannot promote the excesses that define the gay and lesbian lifestyle. Marriage is out of the question. Maybe the next pope. The bible does say, the time will come when the "abomination" will stand in the holy place. That's the time when people should fear. It doesn't say what the "abomination" is, but in Leviticus man laying with man is referred to as "abomination". So, maybe there will be a "gay pope" who then "stands in the holy place" and preaches. It is possible. Just not with a Jesuit.



In the post above you are speaking as if the bible is fact. It is not. There was never any Adam and Eve. Humans evolved over time in populations that never dipped below 1000 as that would be unsustainable.


Where do you get this knowledge from? Were you there?



posted on Sep, 30 2015 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Do onto them as they did onto you. Is that a fair assessment?

No it's not. That's LaVey's philosophy.

The Golden Rule can be summarized as treat others the way you'd want to be treated.

Hell it's even in the Bible. Matthew 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them..

So if for instance you want people to afford you the right to be happily married to the one you love, you'd afford them the same.


What you interpret as hate, is love for the spirit.

I fully support your freedom to have these beliefs, but I simply do not see the World the way you do.


The Pope loves gays and lesbians, but not what they do.

How do you love someone and at the same time not love a part of them that is intrinsic and so quintessential to who they are? When I love someone I am accepting who they truly are and loving them for it.
edit on 30-9-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2015 @ 10:37 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH
Every time there was gay and lesbian behavior prevalent somewhere, there was punishment to follow. The tribe of Benjamin wanted to have sex with a man, traveling through their village, and the entire tribe of Benjamin was wiped out subsequently. Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with some male angels, for the city was practicing all sorts of deviant sexuality, and God destroyed the entire city with fire, etc.. So, the message throughout the scriptures is clear, men and women have done this before, and each time it met with disapproval. Why should things be different this time around? What makes it good today? Did god change his mind?


Well he certainly isn't burning their entire towns to the ground these days, so the bible likely got that part wrong as well.


Or, perhaps, there is no god at all. Just bigoted men, promoting an archaic view of sexuality.


I lean to this.


But, note that the same book of Leviticus also has an anti-bestiality verse, just after the anti-gay command. So, you pick one and throw out the other. What is the rational for that?


I tend to throw the bible out as a whole when looking for anything factual, especially Leviticus. My point was that they are different issues, with different pros and cons. Claiming one will cause the other is completely unfounded. I will not address the beastiality red herring.

People are just becoming more free over time. Penalties get less harsh. People are kinder. Victimless crimes are starting to be decriminalized. We are headed in the right direction. The one good section of the bible is the teachings of Jesus about empathy. The kicker of this is that society STILL has not reached that level of enlightenment despite nearly 2000 years since the teachings were adopted. They are slowly inching towards that, however.



But, nevertheless, yesterday it was fashionable to say "homosexuality" is wrong. Today, it is fashionable to say "bestiality" is wrong. Tomorrow, who can say what is wrong. None of us do anything wrong. We are all in the right. It is those other people, the bigots and the tyrants who are trying to deny us the right to do these things.


Well, my personal philosophy is to do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn't cause harm or suffering to others. I believe in freedom to the extreme. Everybody should be able to live life however they want. Nobody is right or wrong. The biblical god either doesn't exist or is long gone. You can't let some arbitrary force tell you what is right or wrong, when we have a perfectly fine built in moral compass based on putting yourself in another person's shoes.


Where do you get this knowledge from? Were you there?


Thousands of scientific research papers and experiments.

The church accepting gay marriage is inevitable. It may not happen for another 5-10 years, but it will. Jesus never spoke against homosexuality. It's a viewpoint that is outdated by some 3-4 thousand years.


edit on 30-9-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: Barcs
Well, my personal philosophy is to do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn't cause harm or suffering to others. I believe in freedom to the extreme. Everybody should be able to live life however they want.


When machines provide all the services in the society, then that dream may become a reality.

At the moment, however, people are involved in providing services to other people. So, to do what we want, we often have to ask other people to provide us with their time, energy, property, and resources, to help us do what we want. That's where all the problems come in. Requiring other people to act, in ways we want right now, even when those actions are against their beliefs, religion, wants, and needs.

We all can't have the freedom to do as we like, until we don't need others to comply with our wishes to get these things done.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Unless you learn how to do everything there is to do in life, you will always have to rely on other people. That's how our society functions and there is nothing wrong with that. We pay people for services and goods. This contributes to the economy and to society. One can still be perfectly happy and still rely on others for services.


That's where all the problems come in. Requiring other people to act, in ways we want right now, even when those actions are against their beliefs, religion, wants, and needs.


I don't see how any problems arise from this. Nobody is requiring other people to act in ways they want or that cause them to suffer. They chose their profession, and now they live with their decision. If their profession makes them unhappy they should pick a new one. It's funny that you say this when religion has been trying to control the way people act for centuries, even when they don't believe in it. Now that folks are finally breaking free from religious control, the very same people that perpetuated numerous inexcusable acts (torture, burn at the stake etc) against non believers and homosexuals are now playing the victim card. Allowing 2 folks to be happy DOES NOT conflict with anything that Jesus said and DOES NOT cause suffering or persecution to you or any other religious folks. Forcing somebody to comply with your religious beliefs and disallowing them the same rights that all other adults have, is absolutely requiring somebody to act a certain way. How do you not see this?


We all can't have the freedom to do as we like, until we don't need others to comply with our wishes to get these things done.


I don't see the correlation. There is somebody out there for everything. If a religious nut refuses to serve a biologist coffee because the religious guy doesn't like evolution, then he will buy coffee elsewhere. If your job is to provide services or goods for people, then that's what you do. If you can't handle servicing folks you disagree with, then you obviously shouldn't have opened that business or worked there because your business will collapse if you treat people like that.


edit on 1-10-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: AMPTAH

Unless you learn how to do everything there is to do in life, you will always have to rely on other people. That's how our society functions and there is nothing wrong with that. We pay people for services and goods.


We still rely on other people, but this time these people build and program the machines. Then each individual comes to the machine and requests the service he or she wants. Society has been already undergoing this revolution for decades:

7/11 Sales attendant, replaced by the coke machines.
Gas station full serve, replaced by self-serve lanes.
Bank tellers, replaced by ATMs, and now the Internet Online Banking.
Grocery stores just replaced tellers with self-checkout lanes.
Hardware stores like Homedepot just replaced tellers with self-checkout lanes.
Drivers license renewals in my town is now online, or at service kiosk machines.

All services and products you want will eventually be provided by machines.

People still needed to service those machines. But, that's a different "level" of service altogether.



I don't see how any problems arise from this. Nobody is requiring other people to act in ways they want or that cause them to suffer.


Well, "you don't see", I understand that, but there are other people who "do see", like Kim Davis, and we are trying to have a society that "accommodates all people", not only those who can't see, but those who can see also.

We want gays and lesbians to be happy, and also want people like Kim Davis to be happy. Everybody should be able to get up in the morning, and go to work, believing they are doing good things.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH


The persecutions that gays and lesbians are directing towards religious folks today, are payback for the persecutions homosexuals experienced over the centuries from the religious community IMAGINARY.

There, fixed that statement for you. There is no persecution towards religious folks today BY GAYS AND LESBIANS. You are imagining it.


Do onto them as they did onto you. Is that a fair assessment?

No, it is not a fair assessment. It is ridiculous. And it is not what is happening.

And it ALSO is not the Golden Rule.

You are thinking of Eye-for-an-Eye.
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?




edit on 10/1/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH


All services and products you want will eventually be provided by machines.

Really?

I beg to differ. Right now I am dealing with home maintenance issues that require selection of products, colors, quality, etc. It is a difficult process when one is dealing with a 76-year old home. This home was built to NEVER NEED REPAIR....it is that sturdy. The materials and professional quality work put into its durability makes it extremely complicated and difficult to upgrade/update ANYTHING.

NO MACHINE could help make the very HUMAN aesthetic decisions that I am making.

You seem to be in the throes of frantic catastrophizing - there are no boogeymen hunting down Christians. No one telling them what they have to believe. Does this state of frantic gnashing of teeth make you happy? Because, you can stop it and just relax.

Paranoia and catastrophic thinking don't help ANYTHING.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

There, fixed that statement for you. There is no persecution towards religious folks today BY GAYS AND LESBIANS. You are imagining it.


Perhaps I imagined Kim Davis went to jail, because she refused to sign a gay marriage license. I do have quite an imagination. But, I stand corrected. Kim Davis does not exist. She is a figment of the news media propaganda machine. And I fell for it.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

Wow, how out of touch you are is stupifying.

She went to jail because she DENIED A LEGAL LICENSE to people SHE JUDGED.

That isn't her place, or her job. Her job is to hand out licenses to people who are legally able to be married.

And unfortunately she DOES exist.
A bigoted, Bible-Thumping elected official USING HER ELECTED OFFICE to decree who and who can NOT be married
under HER set of standards, rather than the LAW. SHE broke the law. SHE went to jail. SHE doesn't get to decide who can and cannot be married.

Still don't get it, though, do you?



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: AMPTAH

Wow, how out of touch you are is stupifying.

She went to jail because she DENIED A LEGAL LICENSE to people SHE JUDGED.



But, who are these people? Are they African Americans? Chinese immigrants? Undocumented aliens? Do these people have any identity at all?



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH


We want gays and lesbians to be happy, and also want people like Kim Davis to be happy.


What if her happiness was contingent upon denying heterosexuals marriage licenses? Let's pretend she belonged to a different religion that condoned it.
edit on 1-10-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: AMPTAH

Wow, how out of touch you are is stupifying.

She went to jail because she DENIED A LEGAL LICENSE to people SHE JUDGED.



But, who are these people? Are they African Americans? Chinese immigrants? Undocumented aliens? Do these people have any identity at all?


They're human beings.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Still don't get it, though, do you?


People who don't get it, don't want to.

This is such a clear cut case, there really isn't 2 sides.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

That is nor persecution, that is her Violating the Constitution and Law and trying to hide behind religion to continue with her discrimination



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: AMPTAH


We want gays and lesbians to be happy, and also want people like Kim Davis to be happy.


What if her happiness was contingent upon denying heterosexuals marriage licenses? Let's pretend she belonged to a different religion that condoned it.


Well, the heterosexuals would just get married somewhere else. Many times I've been to a particular restaurant, and been told, sorry we're all booked up for the night. I then go to another restaurant. Same with the cinema. Sometimes, they are sold out. I see something else. There are options. That's the beauty of this society.



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 06:10 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

That is nor persecution, that is her Violating the Constitution and Law and trying to hide behind religion to continue with her discrimination


There's nothing in the constitution about gay marriage.

But, there is about religious freedom.

edit on 1-10-2015 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

They're human beings.


Well, ok, but if they are human beings, why doesn't she deny marriage licenses to heterosexuals? Aren't they also human beings ? Or, am I missing something?



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