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Now we are being FORCED by the EU to take people no matter what we voted..

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posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: SheopleNation

Nah, ForteanOrg is just using the 'you are scared' line because as a national of the Netherlands he/she realises there is # all they can do about it because his/her country is a minor player in the EU with little influence.
The UK however has full legal control of its border and can simply decline the 'refugee shared around the EU scheme' if it feels it is a stupid idea. It has.

Good luck Netherlands, unlucky the minority of UK citizens will support our government having the open border policy your country has.
Merkel says jump and you have to ask 'how high?' but we don't, lol.




posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg
Actually. It's not a blessing. I'd say it's neither a blessing nor a curse, though if I had to pick I'd lean toward curse. You say it's good for the continent because it's depopulating, but this group that's migrating in is not going to help carry on the European culture or way of life. That is why I say it is neither blessing nor curse. Now I say it's more a curse, because people may very well be converted, or in some other method the European way of life, the European cultures will see their fall faster.



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

Yeah you keep repeating that ignorant "scared" line but it has absolutely nothing to do with it. You don't seem to possess the ability to think logically, because this is about commonsense, not being scared of anything. To me, it's people who think like you who have allowed their anything goes weakness to cause all of this madness with no end to continue to occur. ~$heopleNation



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Well that is some good news. About the only good news I have heard concerning this insanity. In my opinion, Merkel is an absolute lunatic, she is single handedly destroying Germany. The results of this insanity will be catastrophic. ~$heopleNation



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: SheopleNation

Yeah, the UK is still defending it's border, legally and lawfully.
It's just the other European nations who gave up their rights to do that who are now bleating like lost lambs on the hillside, while saying we are wrong, and claiming that their undefended borders are a good thing, lol.
We can watch and learn if their choices were stupid or not, and adapt as appropriate.

...in fact, all the pro migrant EU posters on ATS seem to be from nations who cannot say no to Germany. That speaks volumes to me. They have no choice in reality.



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: ManFromEurope
*looks up*
*looks around*

oh, its another one of the "why didn't they stay in their cozy refugee-camps in lebanon!?"-threads. Is it the third or fourth this day?

Now with the twist that all of the refugees came only because A. Merkel has promised them a better life, and the other countries are steaming that Germany doesn't want to take all refugees in.

Hi, welcome to the EU. Its a community. Who only wants to pick the cherries might consider leaving.

*looks back down*



The German education system has you, convinced that all will be well in the end ??

Good luck with the borders and the belief that your nation will not be brought down by this.



posted on Sep, 25 2015 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: SheopleNation
a reply to: ForteanOrg

They are not going to take jobs because there are no jobs to take. You know what I honestly believe? I think people who think like you are seriously mentally ill.

And when I say that, I am not trying to be a jerk either. I just honestly believe that people like you desperately need help. ~$heopleNation





Don't blame them too much, the education they received has them all thinking each and every one of us are responsible for this world, and that we , as in EACH ONE OF US, are the sole power and must help out those who are affected by ALL OF US, and that we, not any corporations or entities or anything else, are the only ones that can help everyone, by bringing our countries DOWN to their levels, so they can be abit higher than they are now.

Somehow in the future, all of this will correct itself and the WHOLE WORLD will be peachy keen, and we will have destroyed and weakened MEGA CORP etc... with our sneaky tactics of Fair Trade Programs.




posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 05:54 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: SheopleNation

Nah, ForteanOrg is just using the 'you are scared' line because as a national of the Netherlands he/she realises there is # all they can do about it because his/her country is a minor player in the EU with little influence.
The UK however has full legal control of its border and can simply decline the 'refugee shared around the EU scheme' if it feels it is a stupid idea. It has.


If my country really wanted to get out of Schengen - we simply would decide to do it and that's it. We did not give up our sovereignity - nor has any other EU nation. So, in fact, we have the same "control" you have over our borders.

But there are many factors that make us hesitant to close our borders. Firstly, my country is part of the continent. We're not on an island here. Secondly, we are a nation of traders, so we really believe that free trading and open borders are good for us. Thirdly, we have some principles that are deeply ground in our culture: solidarity, equality, dignity, directness and openness. The Netherlands was one of the founding nations of the EU - because of that.

We have these principles because we are totally utterly dependant on others and we know it. We KNOW that we, as a nation, would not stand half a chance to survive on our own. Actually, if we did not have these principles to guide us, we would probably not even exist as a country - our country lies mostly below sea-level and only because we have a tradtion of helping each other out, we survive here. It even has a name: "polderen": we seek common ground at all costs and avoid conflicts if we can. It's our nature.

Of course, we're just humans. So, there are quite a few that are scared here too. They haven't even seen a refugee yet, but are up in arms and know for sure that this will end the world. I'd advise them to migrate to an island. Perhaps your nation would like to have them, it seems that you're quite fond of people that behave like that. Funny thing though: they don't want to leave here. Beats me why



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

Thanks for the interesting reply.
You see clearly why the stance of the majority of British folk feel differently to yourself, because we can.
The island nation is of course a massive influence, and the fact that the UK never signed up to Schengen allows us to control our border (legally and lawfully) in ways the Netherlands can not.
Our opt out from the 'transfer of migrants among the EU' is also something only a foolish government would change because it would be political suicide for whoever raised the idea.

I support the UK government taking vetted refugees from UN camps, and I would support figures much greater than the 20,000 already agreed, but it must remain the choice of the UK, and I am so glad we are in a position to say no to the EU because we did not sign up to the treaties your nation did.
There is no fear on my part either, just a sensible position looking at the mess Merkel has created by encouraging folk to pay people smugglers to get to the EU. It was a stupid idea, and I think if you were honest you would think the same.
It is just unfortunate that the Netherlands is so controlled by EU legislation that there is nothing you can do about it, unlike the UK, which can say simply no.

The current migrant issue, and the mess the EU is making of it is obviously tragic for the innocents involved, but a very good thing for our EU referendum next year. Many people were indifferent to the EU prior to the last few months, but since current events I have seen far more folk now wishing to vote out for the UK.
Hopefully in the next year or so we will just be trading partners, and you can enjoy the continuing EU experiment with us looking in as outsiders.
Merkel made a massive mistake, but I am pleased the UK is still in a position to say "Not our problem" unlike the Netherlands.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Thanks for the civilised reply. Again, the Dutch COULD close our borders, just like the UK. Schengen is an agreement that allows free travel for citizens of the European nations, it's not about free travel for others. But in practice, it would be too expensive, too cumbersome and not very good for business either. So, we don't.

About the idea that Angela Merkel is in favour of people smugglers - that's ridiculous. She did say that refugees were welcome in Germany - she did not say "and to get here you should pay criminals a fee." That's absurd and you know it. I have yet to meet somebody that doesn't condemn these criminals in the strongest way possible.

If the UK left the EU, the Brits would certainly not benefit from it. You'd still have to accept the EU rules and regulations just to be allowed to trade with us - but you would not have a say in it anymore. We can do fine without British beef, British cars and British beer - but how would you like to be paying 20-30 percent more for stupid Heineken (which you strangely enough seem to prefer over your own fine ales), a Volkswagen, BMW, Opel, Renault, Peugeot, Dacia, Skoda or one of those other cars that the Brits prefer over their own make? Do you really believe that you can do better than say BMW or Volvo? I don't think so. What actually DO you have to offer, then? Why would I buy anything British, if the Brits weren't part of our union? I mean, it's not that your nation really excels in something other than Stilton cheese (which I love, BTW).

So, be careful what you wish for



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

Merkel said that Germany would accept anyone from that region who could make it to the EU.
She did it after that tragic photo of the drowned Syrian boy. She knew that the method of transport by the majority of folk was by paying people smugglers so while not offering alternative transport methods she encouraged more people to pay the smugglers for a dangerous sea crossing.
If you can't see that then I'm afraid I cannot explain it in any more detail.

...oh and regarding a UK exit from the EU, yes, I passionately hope we vote out in the referendum in the next year or so.
Your opinion regarding challenges the UK may face is of course valid as speculation, but you, as myself and anyone else, can only speculate.
Many big business leaders are of the opinion that the UK would do just fine (including the head of JCB) so yep, I'm voting out, and look forward to a truly sovereign UK with its own seat in the WTO, cutting deals with the EU and everyone else.
The Germans will be the first to strike a trading deal with us because Mercedes/BMW/Porsche executives will be telling Merkel that they still want to sell their cars in the UK.
Trade is a two way street and it is easier to see (and feel less afraid) when one lives in a country which isn't like a pet dog of the EU.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 01:30 PM
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The reality is the policy in europe is welfare-heavy. It's flawed. It gives benefits to people without full accountability. Free education. Free healthcare. On and on and on. The greatest example of all is how the 2011 norway killer who is guilty of killing 77 people was not executed. Neither was he treated appropriately. Instead he has several rooms to live in. His diet is controlled and is very balanced. He has healthcare. He even is attending university now. He's treated almost like royalty. Contrast that to america where he'd not only live in a cell without expensive extravagance, he would almost certainly be executed. Any system like this will fail. We're witnessing its failure now with the refugees. They will soon overwhelm the system with reality--something it's unprepared for.

The good thing is europe will come out of this stronger after some suffering and hard lessons. They will learn what JFK told the american people "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Ironically, they might learn these lessons even as the US is forgetting them. It's nature; it's a cycle. Learn and forget, repeated forever.
edit on 9/26/2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: jonnywhite
The reality is the policy in europe is socialist leaning.
I am happy to say that is not the case in the UK. The majority government here is far from socialist, even though 56 out of 59 MP's in Scotland are left wing SNP.
Scottish MP's are irrelevant to the current UK government though so it matters not lol.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: jonnywhite
The reality is the policy in europe is socialist leaning.
I am happy to say that is not the case in the UK. The majority government here is far from socialist, even though 56 out of 59 MP's in Scotland are left wing SNP.
Scottish MP's are irrelevant to the current UK government though so it matters not lol.

Well then I would say the UK will fare better than the rest of Europe. The rest of Europe isn't prepared for what's to happen.

But who's fully prepared for life? Nobody. We all learn. Europe will learn. Remember I said we learn AND forget. So even as Europe will be learning these lessons, the US will in turn be forgetting them, contrary to its history. In the perfect world we remember our history and never forget, but it's not a perfect world--who thinks it's perfect anyway?
edit on 9/26/2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: jonnywhite
The reality is the policy in europe is socialist leaning.
I am happy to say that is not the case in the UK. The majority government here is far from socialist, even though 56 out of 59 MP's in Scotland are left wing SNP.
Scottish MP's are irrelevant to the current UK government though so it matters not lol.

Well then I would say the UK will fare better than the rest of Europe. The rest of Europe isn't prepared for what's to happen.
Agreed.
The UK is still able to lawfully and legally protect it's border, it is not signed up to Germany's 'share the migrants' scheme, and we have a referendum next year about whether we want to leave the EU or not.
It's all looking much better for us than the rest of the EU.



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I don't know if Europe is "socialist leaning". My country, for example, currently has a very unusual government: it consists of a liberal and a (at least in name) social-democratic party. They managed to destroy part of our rather good health care system, all in the name of the free market of course. So, prices were raised, profits were made and the patients now serve as a handy source of income. I don't see much socialism there. Oh, the Greek are socialists allright - very much so. But a very lame type of socialism: they can't afford to be, so Tsipras simply cheated and lied to his people, then took the billions he needed just to pay the rent on the former loans - and cunningly organised new elections. Was re-elected! No socialism there either. France then? Hollande is a socialist, right? Well, yeah, in a way. But he has to deal with the fact that he can't rule by himself, his popularity is diminishing and the French are being promised things. Promised things. And promised things. Not much socialism there either. I can go on and on, but I do not really see much real socialism in Europe. It is mostly a mix of center right Christian-democrats, center left social democrats and a lot of liberals.

It is exactly that that explains why we are so hesitant and why people are becoming weary of the EU: the political landscape CORRECTLY represents the people! Europeans ARE hesitant, ARE indecisive. We are quite well off here, and so we became inert. And if something happens we do not expect - like hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing to Europe - we don't know what to do. I mean, it's not "business as usual" - we're used to business as usual.

However, we're quite resilient so we will come up with a solution. And in true European (and American) style: perfect solution for a problem that won't exist anymore by then. Such is life in Europe (and in the UK too, mind you).

In the meantime, I'm quite happy here. I can simply drive to Germany, do my shopping there, drive back, take the kids to Disneyland (crossing Belgium and France) and I don't even have to change. Only when I go to freaking England, I have to change. Good thing that we can use plastic nowadays

Finally: don't get me wrong. I love England - well, actually: I love London. There is a difference between the land and the city. What I like most in London is the sheer diversity of people there. It's is a mix of foreigners of all kinds. Go visit say Camden Lock, walk around a bit and be amazed by the sheer diversity of food you can buy there. Somewhere there must be a chippy, run by a typical English lad with red hair and accompanying neck. I'm sure.

But I haven't fond him yet, nor neede his services. When there, I always have breakfast in my favourite place. They offer a full English including a huge mug of black coffee - for six pounds. Beans, tomatoes, black pudding, sausage, toast - and plenty. That's England for you.

(Oh, and the place is run by a Greek family. So typical).



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

That's cool, and you can still enjoy the UK just the same as you do now when/if we leave the EU.
Same currency, same passport controls, same variety of ethnic groups that you love in London, no change really.
...just that the UK will only agree to negotiations with the EU where it suits the UK. You may speculate that the UK needs to be in the EU as I equally will speculate that the UK does not need to be in the EU.

It is why a vote out will be excellent because we can find out who is right or wrong. One thing is sure though, my children will not starve as a result of an out vote, the UK may face challenges but we will not be in famine/depression conditions, no matter how much doom porn folk may try to sell on ATS.

Name one decent economist who predicts societal/financial meltdown for the UK if we vote out of the EU, I can't find any, maybe Google is broken?



posted on Sep, 26 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

Good points. Yeah here in the States, my parents generation, which is the generation that came after the World War 2 generation, have basically sold our Country out without even a thought about what will be left for their Grandchildren to inherit.

Anyway, All the rats are retiring now to live off of all their bribe money until they kick the bucket. They could care less about the mess that they leave behind. ~$heopleNation



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 02:31 AM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

It's always worth getting away from London. London can look like quite a success but it does have 4x as much tax payers money spent on it per person than places further north - particularly Birmingham and beyond. There's a particular trope that London is England which it isn't, there's a lot of beautiful places and people elsewhere. Up north there might be less diversity (in the melting pot sense. Theres a big difference between this town and the next! Which is quite amazing to think about) but it doesn't make us all rednecks or rampaging villagers touting horns and stamping feet at the premise of changing lifestyles and culture. If you wish to see how racial integration works then look north where people are not segmented into tight ghettos - at least unless your poor and sadly there are a lot of poor. But we get along and help each other out. On my street we have refugees, refugees from world war 2, granted they are getting on a bit now but very much part of the community. There's also some people with origins in Thailand, Bangladesh, China and India. We have a large number of Sikhs actually. But we all have lived together and all considered British, if you closed your eyes and spoke you'd hear no distinguishable difference (on the whole).

Is there a problem though with immigration? Yes. The ghettos are springing up. Pockets are forming with new arrivals who are being exploited as cheap labour being paid illegaly. There are landlords who enlist people directly from poorest EU nations (and outside - illegals with no credentials). They can stick 4 families in a 2 bedroom house, charge thousands of pounds for transporting them here (on loans they can never pay back) and pay half the national minimum wage as well as a 'fee' for working here. It suits the unscrupulous gangs that the people are isolated, don't fit in, are afraid and speak little English - a far cry from the people I grew up with.

These gangs need cracking, but it's hard enough papering over the cracks and the damage done by them. At most with the funding available all we can do is paper over them. There just isn't the welfare and support now to cope with it, this isn't because of 'too many' it's because the government's strategy and media propaganda has intrinsically labelled those 'needy' as scroungers. A diversion from the obviously growing gulf between the small percentage who have and the overwhelming majority of those who have not. Guess where the refugees will fit into this? It's more social class divergence, segregation and exploitation.

I might go on too much, detracting from the point. There's a lot of factors to consider as to what is wrong and how to fix it. Pulling one thread undoubtedly exposes more. I'm not saying England isn't a great place to live, it clearly is and there is a great deal to be thankful for, but there is also an erosion of its nature and I fear anyone arriving here in the future will see far less in terms of abundance. You might be able to get a full English breakfast for £2.99 up north or even get your car washed at the vast number of hand car washes for £10, but there are further costs and ramifications, so you might ask why it's so cheap and what the labour force receives (I can guarantee its no where near the £6 an hour mark or even 2/3rds that, half? Less?).

Cities look great, particularly where money is spent and where the eye is drawn. For the tourists. Out my back windows there's a park and a man who has been living in a tent in the woods for about 2 years now. That's the one I can see. There are others.
edit on 27-9-2015 by ObsidianEclipse because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2015 by ObsidianEclipse because: grammar, spelling and explanations



posted on Sep, 27 2015 @ 03:51 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Mclaneinc
Or should we just let these people in and allow the hatred they cause...


Yes, we should let them in. Actually, we're doing just that. And they do not cause hatred - hatred is mostly caused by folks that wouldn't touch a foreigner with a ten foot pole for fear of being turned into a radical terrorist.

Instead of being afraid of them - offer them a warm welcome. Help them as much as you can. Allow them, even stimulate them to stay, to work here, to create their own businesses, to pay taxes and contribute to OUR way of life. Allow them to blend in, to add to the mix.

Again: even if all Syrians came to live here, they would just be a measly 4 percent of the population. So, what's there to fear - but fear itself?


I left this thread as it was starting to get ugly but then I saw all your posts and I HAD to make a short return.

You are seriously WRONG to the degree I have to wonder if you are a disinformation plant..

Go online and watch what its happening in Germany NOW, the Germans gave these folk a VERY warm welcome and now these people are smashing their windows in because they don't like the quality of the temporary living accommodation, they also moan about the food, the washing area's that they have no money to smoke (Haram) and just about everything from where they are being sent because they all want to be together.

Italy is getting trashed, France is still being trashed and burnt down in area's and there's 55 no go area's controlled by Radicals in the EU. No go for Police ambulance or fire crews.

So, show me the gratitude for their new country that took them in, show me the respect for the warm welcome.

As for the create jobs ideal you go on about?

Are you for real in any way...

If you flood an already stretched resource you simply cannot hire new doctors to meet the needs, it does not work like that and what is worse is that you know it yet speak this drivel about hiring doctors and creating jobs. Everytime these people who attack our society destroys a bus, sets fire to buildings, attack people putting them in hospital needing care it all takes resources from a dwindling pot. There's no magic fill up button, it all comes from what there is and the tax payer.

And lets look at the facts regarding the Islamists that come here, surveys in the countries who have taken them in show MOST do not work and in fact are told by their radical Imams and leaders to NOT help the Western budgets by paying taxes. In the UK the ones who deliberately do not work get Job Seekers Allowance but they have renamed it Jizya seeking allowance after the Islamic tax system where they take from non Muslims.

And lets look at our health systems, the most popular baby name here has been Mohhamed, ever wondered why?

The breeding ratios from Muslims against non Muslims is worryingly large, for the large number a baby is produced as soon as the woman is able to produce a new one, Muslim family sizes for the most part dwarf ours and guess what, its down to the NHS here to take that strain.

This is the same country after country..

And let me destroy one thing about your argument, you say if we took all the Syrians it would be a mere 4%, might be the case but only one in five of these refugee's is Syrian, we are taking people from all over the Middle East and Africa.

No matter how left you are its IMPOSSIBLE to take and sustain these people in these numbers let alone sustain our own people. These people are not like my in laws who came here in the 50's, worked damn hard, paid taxes, didn't claim a single days sickness benefit, never asked for a council house but brought a cheap house, built it up and hired rooms out to pay for it, they did it the real hard way and at no point did they push their Muslim religion on anyone, they mixed and enjoyed being here, my father in law was a good friend of Tommy Cooper the famous UK comedian, they went out while Tommy went on drinking benders, Mike my father in law never said "Tommy, you are a kuffar" he just got on with him and they were firm friends.

That is how it was, people came here, worked hard, took abuse at times but ignored it until they were part of the community and yes, some people like the Black people took more abuse than most but the idiots on both sides were ironed out and we all got on, I came from Northern Ireland, had never seen a black person or any other race in the flesh ever but then again I was not brought up with any racial ideals, I came here and just got on with people, black, white, yellow or whatever, it was a new experience...

Now, look at how it works, many come here not looking for work, demand the best despite apparently being from war torn countries, they for the most part FAIL to integrate, many refuse to speak or learn English and straight away there's the violent mob rule tactics and slowly the rise in radicalisation starts, home grown teens learn from them, they introduce them to Shariah etc.

Does this sound like my Muslim in laws or an army?

I'm NOT against immigration, I just want to know who I'm taking in and as said at the very start of the thread the EU is taking this away from ALL of us, I suspect Merkel like our Tony Blair (although he was up for it) was used by a higher agenda to force mass EU immigration to destabilise all of us, perhaps rallying us towards this so called New World order....

Whatever the answer there is now way to support unlimited immigration...

There are not the jobs to go around even if these people wanted them, the resource drain outweighs the input from those that work.

On no level is this workable, make it that we select then yes, make it that we take in numbers of genuine cases and it works..

At the moment most of Europe looks like a locust horde have swept through, there's rubbish, destruction, voilence and mob rule all over the place...

Sadly our media refuses to show it...

So thank you EU heads, people not elected, we have no say in them being there and we cannot remove them, how it the world does this happen, people given so much power yet zero accountability able to tell folk who they trade with etc etc etc...

I seriously hope we get to leave this club, all we seem to do is pay them and get very very little in return let alone our self respect.

edit on 27-9-2015 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)




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