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Now we are being FORCED by the EU to take people no matter what we voted..

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posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:00 AM
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How do I upload this picture of refugee's camping out in a Serbian Christian grave yard? cigarette butts on the ground, clothing and blankets strewn about, men sitting on the grave stones smoking, very nice!

I have just tried the picture icon, nothing happened, must be windows 8.1 being picky?




posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: Mclaneinc

Fear, uncertainty and doubt. Is that really all you can offer when confronted with such grave misery? For it is misery if one has to flee his home because he is no longer safe in his own land. Blame games will not do anybody any good.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: Mclaneinc

Hey.

I am curious to understand your expectations and wanted to ask a few questions.

On our watch, EU leaders ( not in any isolation certainly ) have taken it upon themselves to claim the right to regime change and bomb to dark ages nearly every stable ( not necessarily palatable) government in the Middle East - with voter consent implied via ongoing silence and the repetitious acceptance of processes that keep them in power.

It's a no brainer, that our permissiveness of this leadership agenda has created catastrophe after catastrophe for literally millions of millions of people...people who just like us, are not their governments and just like us, are barely represented by them except in shallowest of terms.

So, I really would like to know, what did you expect or think would happen?
I ask quite seriously and genuinely.
Did you really expect given the concentrated and systemic dismemberment of these nations by our leaders over the last 20 years especially, that there would be no consequences for us to face?

Is it maybe the case that you thought your leaders knew what the full consequences would be in doing those things on your behalf, and you thought they ' had it all handled and mapped out' like a big plan or something? Or did you maybe expect the millions we have bombed back to the stone age time and time again to just sit there, take it, die quietly for us and not raise a fuss as we sat back unaccountable and merely took profit?

Has there ever once been a case in living recorded history where a 'victor' nation rested very long in comfort after decimating half the world? Has there ever not been a price to pay for war? Or is there some kind of other historical example you cling to or a belief or ideology or something... that you had precedence to rest in the sense of power and security that the dismay expressed in your post implies you have recently lost?

I ask that seriously, because I have never had that illusion or sense of security. I never had a chance to form one and I have always known in my heart and mind that what goes around comes around and Ive tried to live work vote and protest accordingly. So it's from that basis, that seeing the disbelief in many EU posters' threads these days, I wonder why what is happening now is such a shock to you all. I read all the posts and all that comes to mind is....' what did you expect? ' Your collective expectations and your in/actions don't seem to add up to me.

I know this all hasn't come about as simply as cause and effect..that that would be an oversimplification...though as I see it, its pretty damn close to that. Didn't it ever cross your mind what could happen as a result of your leaders foreign policies? Did you think you were impervious to consequence or somehow not responsible for what you do or maybe, not empowered under democratic principles to hold your leaders to account for their decisions?

You say as a citizen of an EU member nation, that you feel you're being forced to accept refugees, that this offends you as it's a matter of sovereign state rights and essentially, bullying. I wonder though, as a voting citizen, did you once ever consider the sovereign state rights of any of the nations we've bombed and bullied in the last 20 years....or wonder how their populations might feel about being imposed upon by us with our bombs and our ideology and everything else that comes with the sense of entitlement making national war for corporate proft implies?

For all the hardships EU is facing right now, I still consider the EU very fortunate that it isn't tanks and fighter jets, bunker-bombs and night raids washing up on your shores, just scared (in the main) fleeing humans. It easily could have been the other way around given our actions in situ and the actors involved.

I really dont see the issue being a matter of states rights being usurped right now. Not that they aren't being usurped, but that isn't the big issue, to me. I see it as a matter of the consequence of abdicating power blindly to leaders, a matter of the human rights of others imposing and the force of accountability calling. I see the EU being forced to face the consequences of its own actions and inaction's painfully, even unfairly perhaps too given the role of the USA KoS and Isr.

Either way, force is being applied...it's sink or swim. From an external view and unlike many of the nations we've irrecoverably altered, the EU at least has a chance to stand and honorably face its consequences with a measure of dignity, even to lead the way for others if it wants. The world is watching and most in hope it doesn't all fall apart because of fear.

I do have empathy for the EU, for you who are facing this crisis directly as well. I also have empathy for 'them' too, those who are fleeing our crisis's. I think maybe whats happening now could be an opportunity for you all to live up to your EU values as opposed to preaching and imposing them on others...or it could be as simple as karma saying 'enough', and informing you that it's time you have to.

In truth, I dont know. I guess the outcome will be exactly what you all individually and collectively choose for yourselves and either way, it really is up to you and no one else. I do know this exact same lesson is headed our way soon too... if my government doesn't go the full hilter on us that is, if it helps, you're not alone.


If you're not thumping your desk at me for posting...I really would like to hear your answers. Not to harrass you, you guys have enough sh*t to deal with no matter what your views on refugees are, but to genuinely try to understand as a researcher how we in the west build up these walls of imperviousness around us...where they stem from and why.



cheers
Ro
edit on 24-9-2015 by Rosha because: sp



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 08:49 AM
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ROTFLMAO!!!!

Now you know how we in the US feel about Mexico and South America.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 09:30 AM
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What better way to destabilise a nation than by flooding it with millions of socially disconnected refugees? Many of whom will seek rapid and forceful change of those countries values and traditions. The refugees irritate the residents, the residents challenge the refugees. Societal chaos ensues.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 09:55 AM
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Isn't it cute how you got the typical mentally deranged bleeding hearted liberal usual suspects supporting and egging on this suicidal madness?

I'll tell you what, many of these liberals need to be admitted to a mental asylum, and every single last one if these illegal invaders of western Europe need to be rounded up and shipped back to their own Nations. ~$heopleNation



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
What better way to destabilise a nation than by flooding it with millions of socially disconnected refugees? Many of whom will seek rapid and forceful change of those countries values and traditions. The refugees irritate the residents, the residents challenge the refugees. Societal chaos ensues.


You suggest a plan. I don't think there is one. What happens is simple: we start wars. We destabilize nations. People that led relatively calm lives - yes, perhaps not in a system that we believe in, but a system that provided reasonable conditions to live reasonable lives nevertheless - are suddenly confronted with war, death, decapitation, extremism. They flee. To a place well-know for its prosperity, it's wealth, it's liberality: Europe. No plan. Just stupid us bombing them and them seeking refuge and better conditions.

There will be no societal chaos either. There are over 700 million Europeans, so even if every citizen of Syria (20 million) and Eritrea (6 million) came here they would still be a minority. Not even 4 percent.

Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt. Bah, humbug.

Let them in. Let them come. Let them see for themselves how well we live here. Wow, 26 million new citizens, doctors, engineers, labourers, women to bear children, workers, pipefitters, carbuilders.. let them come!



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

It amazes me how clueless people believe that jobs grow on trees. Try thinking logically, it helps. ~$heopleNation



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg
You can't really be that stupid - can you? 26 million people - just like that? No problem! A sudden 4% influx is a huge number and will inevitably create problems in an already struggling economic system.

'We' didn't all bomb anyone and 'we' don't all live well.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: SheopleNation

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt rear their ugly heads again: "Oh, they will take OUR jobs"..

Such nonsense.

It's not like we suddenly have to share the same cake with 20-30 million new Europeans... nope, there will be 20 million new Europeans helping to bake our cakes. After all, our new europeans all need clothes, food, iphones, cars, houses, plumbing.. They need doctors, lawyers, engineers. Simply by being - they create jobs. And probably will do quite a lot of the work themselves too, with us, for us. They will create new wealth, new ideas, new hope for our dying greying continent.

Let them come!

edit on 24-9-2015 by ForteanOrg because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: Robert Reynolds
a reply to: ForteanOrg
You can't really be that stupid - can you? 26 million people - just like that? No problem! A sudden 4% influx is a huge number and will inevitably create problems in an already struggling economic system.

'We' didn't all bomb anyone and 'we' don't all live well.





Sorry to be the bringer of good news, but - actually, compared to these refugees, we live quite well. And 4 percent is by no means "huge". Remember: there are roughly 10 million Greek - we spent 120 billion euro on them a few years ago, well knowing they won't be able to pay it back. Never underestimat the wealth of Europe. And yes: 'we' (as in: the Americans, aided by the Western nations) do bombard Syria. We call it 'intervention' -but we drop bombs there.



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

They are not going to take jobs because there are no jobs to take. You know what I honestly believe? I think people who think like you are seriously mentally ill.

And when I say that, I am not trying to be a jerk either. I just honestly believe that people like you desperately need help. ~$heopleNation




edit on 24-9-2015 by SheopleNation because: TypO



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: Mclaneinc

Fear, uncertainty and doubt. Is that really all you can offer when confronted with such grave misery? For it is misery if one has to flee his home because he is no longer safe in his own land. Blame games will not do anybody any good.


Which is according to you and the media, look beyond that and see the whole story, I fled MY homeland because of religion (Northern Ireland) but I went to a fellow British place, I didn't travel THOUSANDS of miles to Africa..
Ie I went NEXT DOOR...

Why have many of these simply leap frogged area's..For a better life or for a non paying life..

And again you ignore the simple issue that one, the EU is forcing people of no origin here and how if this is done do you protect us for economic migrants and Radicals..

Or should we just let these people in and allow the hatred they cause...

I'm guessing the average EU person would say NO!!!!!!!



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: Rosha

So your whole post is based upon a country attacking another and deserving the outcome?

Do the American people, the British people and any EU allies deserve what our governments did in our name without actually getting our approval?

Sorry mate, blowing up the wrong tree, we as British people never asked our TRAITOROUS leaders to do these things, we actively advocated that they did not do these items yet THEY CHOOSE TO DO IT..

Please read the WHOLE thread where this is laid out before making truly silly choices..

Ask any British army family if they wanted their son or daughters sent on almost suicide missions which only GOVERNMENTS wanted any control....

Sorry but what they did has no relation upon what the British people of all colours and creeds will have to put up with from many of these so called migrants,,
edit on 24-9-2015 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
What better way to destabilise a nation than by flooding it with millions of socially disconnected refugees? Many of whom will seek rapid and forceful change of those countries values and traditions. The refugees irritate the residents, the residents challenge the refugees. Societal chaos ensues.


Thankfully a sensible post...

Yes, that is what is happening...



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: SheopleNation
Isn't it cute how you got the typical mentally deranged bleeding hearted liberal usual suspects supporting and egging on this suicidal madness?

I'll tell you what, many of these liberals need to be admitted to a mental asylum, and every single last one if these illegal invaders of western Europe need to be rounded up and shipped back to their own Nations. ~$heopleNation


Its a shame but I agree, if you arrive with lies then get shipped home, to make promises that anyone who steps on your land will be kept is both destructive and has an agenda around it...



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: SheopleNation

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt rear their ugly heads again: "Oh, they will take OUR jobs"..

Such nonsense.

It's not like we suddenly have to share the same cake with 20-30 million new Europeans... nope, there will be 20 million new Europeans helping to bake our cakes. After all, our new europeans all need clothes, food, iphones, cars, houses, plumbing.. They need doctors, lawyers, engineers. Simply by being - they create jobs. And probably will do quite a lot of the work themselves too, with us, for us. They will create new wealth, new ideas, new hope for our dying greying continent.



Let them come!


Are you for real????

You make it sound like every person arriving offers new benefits rather than a large majority simply here to reap from the West..

I'm rare in that I make a rude remark but just how daft ware you?

Look at ALL the media, most of these folk at Male young people, very few families and children / women. they arrive and are instantly caught behaving in a manner contrary to ordinary folk and just because you do not believe it does not make it so.

Up to 90% as checked by numerous agencies in these country admit they are NOT Syrian?

Do I need to go on?

Do you really think these people play by the rules, its like imagining people standing in a queue like they used to for UK buses, now they all pile in to get on the bus. People no longer follow rules, they lie, cheat and deceive to get past the proper valid checks.

Let them all in, what a fool you are and trust me, that is way beyond how I would reply to anyone but this liberal open arms style is DESTRUCTIVE to any society...



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg


Sorry to be the bringer of good news, but - actually, compared to these refugees, we live quite well. And 4 percent is by no means "huge". Remember: there are roughly 10 million Greek - we spent 120 billion euro on them a few years ago, well knowing they won't be able to pay it back. Never underestimat the wealth of Europe. And yes: 'we' (as in: the Americans, aided by the Western nations) do bombard Syria. We call it 'intervention' -but we drop bombs there.


We is wrong, our governments do, WE the people never wanted that but thanks to YOU ideals WE the people must deal with that and please don't annoy the hell out of me about how USELESS our or ANYONE'S voting system is...

Basic, you vote, you make no difference..If you fail to understand that then simply you deserve what is coming to you...

By that I mean that many vote hoping to make a difference but the TPTB make sure its an non valid contract..

The end result is chaos and confrontation...The laws of voting need to be changed so that its a continual process where changes can be made on the fly...Sadly these scum make sure THEY are the only ones who can change policy and claim to do it in the interest of the voters even when its very clearly NOT!!!!!
edit on 24-9-2015 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 05:35 PM
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Guys and ladies, I've made my case clear, I hate the EU bullying, I hate the liberal stupidity and I despise ideal that all migrants seem to be good!

Its clearly been seen that these folk coming here have in many cases any thing but war torn lives, many live in safe zones but claim they are Syrian, many come here and instantly commit numerous crimes that the mainstream media ignore.

We have seen issues where ISIS or other terrorist organisations show 'selvfies' of their criminals in countries poising as 'migrants', we have seen the utter destruction that many of these people make and reports already of numerous rapes in Germany...

Sorry but if you wish to take in these people with zero checks then I'm sorry but its a huge mistake...Approve or deport...The only way....



posted on Sep, 24 2015 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to : Mclaneinc

So your whole post is based upon a country attacking another and deserving the outcome?


No it isn't based on that alone....though that is basically what is happening right now. In your name, your leaders took apart what were three functioning societies and now all the camps in ME are full to overflow,..voila..those societies are arriving on your doorstep.

Do the American people, the British people and any EU allies deserve what our governments did in our name without actually getting our approval?


Yes..if they, like my nation fail to make the effort hold our leaders to account we all deserve everything we get back as a consequence. As I wrote given-its only people not bombs dropping on EU right now..we should consider ourselves very lucky.


Sorry mate, blowing up the wrong tree, we as British people never asked our TRAITOROUS leaders to do these things, we actively advocated that they did not do these items yet THEY CHOOSE TO DO IT..

I never agreed either but as you can see by our efforts..we are at least trying. One radical asshole PM down just last week..one to go who is already via our force of will, 'reconsidering' our involvement in Syria. We never stop the pressure and we force the conversations and we fight back. We may not win, our AF just recently did start bombing Syria despite massive protest..but we dont sit back and let them have a free hand without oversight either...and we are one of the laziest drunken ' she'll be right' ziocontrolled states in the world. What did your people do?
I dont recall any EU civil actions regarding the bombing of Libya for example..a key event in the region as it allowed alNursa rebels a free hand in sthn Syria...if I'm wrong, please point me to the uprising in protest I missed.

Please read the WHOLE thread where this is laid out before making truly silly choices..

I did..and I'm serious..what you are facing now and the fear your facing it with are the 'result' of civilian political inaction. They really do only have as much power as we've given them and they can't lock us all up....

Ask any British army family if they wanted their son or daughters sent on almost suicide missions which only GOVERNMENTS wanted any control....

Did these people join the military by choice or conscription? Did they refuse to deploy and choose instead to investigate and challenge the intell and illegal orders and face the consequences of doing that? ( as many VVets did during 60's)
Did they file protest? No? Nothing happens in a vacuum. Every individual choice matters as just much as a collective one.

Did the ppl generally set petty differences aside and come together in a mass general strike and shut down Gov ( we're planning rolling stoppages as we speak) and force them into reconsideration? What exactly have the people done in the EU to make it clear war is not an option and not wanted? I'm not even talking some leftist dribble..it's totally self serving and a case of "you dont want nothing' you dont start nothing'" and also of unreasonable expectations too ie: when you DO start something..you have to understand people aren't going to take your # for ever!

You cant even handle a few thousand migrants..imagine if they were troops instead and you knew thanks to CNN that interceptor jets were on the way not far behind them! Empathy isn't some crappy weak ideology, its the capacity to place yourself in someone else's shoes..and THINK before you act...and right now..you're getting a hard lesson in that.


Sorry but what they did has no relation upon what the British people of all colours and creeds will have to put up with from many of these so called migrants,

You mean, your aging populations restored to vitality..new industry, businesses..a predominately self supporting university educated influx of people who want to create and work in peace? That type by far make up the portion of people fleeing right now..and for every 'incident' over inflated for press committed by a feral few..those others are the ones who will remain.

Your fear..shrugs..your choices on how to see this...I'm sorry you couldn't answer my questions buy hey..sh*t happens right.
It remains, in a democracy, we are ALL accountable...all of us...and now you see why.

cheers

Ro.
edit on 24-9-2015 by Rosha because: sp




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