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Police Bullets Hit Bikers During the Waco Police Shootout

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posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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Good day to you, ATS!

Once more I bring to you information regarding the incident which took place on May 17, 2015 in Waco, TX at a Twin Peaks restaurant.

While this may come as no surprise to many, this is the first time that we have official recognition that law enforcement ammunition was found to have been linked to at least some of those who were gunned down that day:


Four months after a shootout left 9 bikers dead at the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas, prompting the arrest of 177 people, many of them presumably innocent, authorities are still denying the public access to key pieces of evidence, including video. The legal fate of arrestees still hangs in the balance. And it still isn’t known how many of the dead bikers were killed by bullets that police officers fired.

But police bullets did hit some of the bikers, the Associated Press reports after reviewing 8,800 pages of evidence apparently leaked to the news organization. “The gunfire included rounds fired by police that hit bikers, though it isn't clear whether those rifle shots caused any of the fatalities,” Emily Schmall reports. “Investigators have offered scant details about what sparked the fight or how the gunfire played out, and no one has been charged.” 18 bikers were wounded but survived the melee.
emphasis mine

Source: The Atlantic

Ballistics is being handled by the BATF.

Ever since this story broke and the first cracks appeared in the official narrative, there has been mounting evidence of actions taken by law enforcement and the legal establishment in the area which could be considered absolutely despotic and tyrannical. American people were injured and killed by representatives who are supposed to be protecting those very same individuals; the article concludes:


If it turns out that some of the bikers in Waco died from police bullets, authorities will have shot people dead, arrested all the witnesses, and prohibited them from speaking out under penalty of contempt. It’s long past time for state overseers to step in.

The local justice system in Waco is a farce.


It is promising that there are more calls for the need of transparency in this case from others than those in the biker community, I only hope that the calls are heeded and we get an approximation of the truth.

Related threads:

The Book of Waco

"somewhat involved in criminal activity,"

Corruption, Collusion & Cover-ups in the Waco Biker Shooting

Autopsies released in Twin Peaks biker deaths

JP Peterson removed from Hewitt biker’s case

Waco Is Suppressing Evidence That Could Clear Innocent Bikers

Waco police detective named foreman of grand jury that may hear Twin Peaks cases

At Least 9 Dead and Many Injured in Biker Gang Shooting in Waco, TX

What says ATS?




posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Yup, way too many head shots to be simple spontaneous reactionary violence.

I suspect they will never release the ballistics findings.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Thank you for posting! This tragedy/travesty demands full scrutiny by the public and authorities.

Have you seen this:

The Man And The Signal that Triggered The Waco Shooting?

Aging Rebel has covered it too:

The Don Carlos Video

It sure looks weird -- and therefore suspicious -- to me. Also the cowboy-boot dude talking to cops after the shoot-out...



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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There needs to be an independent investigation by the justice department. This was a police massacre imo.

Of course they are going to withhold evidence and information until they can scrub the information.

The FEDs need to be there NOW.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: greencmp

Head, back, downward trajectory, of a caliber which is consistent with LEO ammunition, and all from a distance; indeed what little facts have been released do NOT match with what we are being spoon-fed.

 


a reply to: Boadicea

And the Rebel has a good article here, in which one of those detained gets around the gag order and gives new information by reading a letter into the official record:


My name is George Bergman and I want to introduce myself to the Court and to the District Attorney’s Office and tell you who I am.

I am 48 years old. I am a long haul truck driver. I have been married to my wife, Judy, for the past 24 years and I am still on good terms with my ex-wife, Kimberly, who I was married to for two years when I was younger. I am the proud father of five children (Ashley, Stephen, Joshua Jonathon, and Jayanna), one of whom is a highway patrolman, and I am also the proud grandfather of six grandchildren. I work hard for my family and have been law abiding my entire life. I also want to tell the Court and the District Attorney’s Office who I am NOT. I am NOT a gang member and I am NOT a criminal. My life is my family and one of the few outside interests I have is motorcycles. I am a member of the Desgraciados Motorcycle Club that has about ten or eleven members. To my knowledge this Club has never been involved in any type of violence whatsoever. The funny thing is that I was not even planning to go to the Confederation of Clubs meeting at Twin Peaks on May 17, 2015. Nevertheless, my wife had to go out of town and it was a beautiful day so, at the last minute, I decided to ride my motorcycle down to the COC meeting without about four other club members. What is also funny is that I thought the meeting was at the Texas Roadhouse and did not realize it was not until we passed it by.

When I arrived at Twin Peaks, I parked my bike and when I saw how crowded Twin Peaks was I decided to use the restroom at the Don Carlos restaurant. Just as I started toward Don Carlos I heard shooting and ducked behind some cars. I then saw one police officer in front of me just shooting wildly toward the crowd at Twin Peaks with a rifle and then one officer ran past me and told me to stay on the ground. I want it to be clear that I did NOT take place in any violence that day. I had been to several other COC meetings and there was never any violence at the meetings. I left my gun in my Motorcycle because I never dreamed I would need it when going to a COC meeting. There are things from that day I will never get out of my mind:

• The police shooting into a crowd of motorcyclists.
• Me calling my wife at 12:27 and telling her, ‘Baby I love you and I may never see you or talk to you again. I am in
the middle of a police shootout “
Having the police dump a body of one of the bikers in front of me and me having to try to plug the hole where he was shot to help stop him from bleeding out and dying.

Although I was originally told I was being taken to the Convention Center to be questioned, I was later arrested and my bond was set at $1,000,000. Thanks to my attorney at the time, Brittany Lannen, my bond was finally lowered to $80,000 and thanks to be ex-wife who posted my bond I was released after spending 20 days in jail. As a result of being in jail I lost my job. I now also suffer from shoulder problems because of the length of time I was kept zipped cuffed. I am also being treated for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have been getting work here and there to support my family but it has been tough.

In summing up, I know a lot of people are looking at this situation and judging it with the luxury of perfect hindsight, however, as I said, I had been to several other COC meetings and I had no reason to expect any violence on May 17th. I try not to judge others but I feel betrayed by a system in which I could be an innocent bystander, get arrested, be told I have to post a $1,000,000 bond and then have to sit in jail 20 days and lose my job and my ability to provide for my family.

I was not part of a conspiracy to commit murder. The only conspiracy I was part of was a conspiracy to drink beers and eat hamburgers with my friends.
emphases mine

So we have an eyewitness to police shooting indiscriminately into a crowd and then a bit later an officer dumping an injured person without rendering aid of any type. If any civilian had done these things, or our troops in a war zone, they would be facing severe consequences. However, when those who are tasked with upholding the law operate in such a way, everything is done to attempt to justify the use of force and, if unable to do that, then only one side of the story is allowed to be told.

Again I despair at the lack of attention paid to this story whilst other, much less important, topics are garnering most of the media attention.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

If theres a shootout between rival biker gangs at a restaurant that im eating at, i sure as hell HOPE the cops show up and start shooting bikers...am i missing some vital point here?

ETA how else should this gunfight have been stopped? Just wait till everyone runs out of ammo?
edit on 22-9-2015 by Urantia1111 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Urantia1111

Yep your missing the point.... if you read the article above.


Lawyers in the case have seen “dashboard video of people fleeing the scene while shots ring out, audio of police threatening to shoot people if they rise from the ground


and who's to say it was a shootout between rival bikers? Nobody has seen any proof of this yet......


edit on 22-9-2015 by imitator because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: Urantia1111

The point is there were numerous people injured or killed who had nothing to do with the altercation that started the entire circus.

On top of that, 177 people were arrested and charged with criminal conspiracy with no supporting evidence other than a stack of photocopied indictments, none of which included specifics as to why the person being charged was under arrest.

There appears to have been evidence tampering by law enforcement by way of planting what looks to be a handgun near one of those shot as can be seen in the following video; at the 42:37 mark a man in an orange shirt can be seen placing an item on the ground (which appears to be a pistol) and a while later, at ~120:29 an evidence marker is placed near the item dropped.



If law enforcement had not been involved, it is entirely possible that only one person would have been shot. Not the over 2 dozen, 9 of which ended up dead.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Thank you -- I had not seen that.


Having the police dump a body of one of the bikers in front of me and me having to try to plug the hole where he was shot to help stop him from bleeding out and dying.


That is horrifying... barbaric... and NEEDS TO BE KNOWN! Bless this man's heart for doing his part despite the many efforts to keep him (and everyone) silent. He found a way.

And thanks again to you for doing your part to keep this front and center. We cannot afford to turn a blind eye.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

If theres a shootout between rival biker gangs at a restaurant that im eating at, i sure as hell HOPE the cops show up and start shooting bikers...am i missing some vital point here?


If is the operative word here.... there is serious doubt that this is what happened, hence the need for an eagle on the legal proceedings past, present and future.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

And all this excuses bikers going to war inside a restaurant among families eating dinner? If there were that many armed bikers in one spot, im guessing some racketeering charges will apply to most of the 177. Its a reckless armed criminal gang. I'll allow cops some leeway for cleaning up that mess.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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So is this talk track that the bikers weren't doing anything when the cops showed up?

Or that they were gun shots by the bikers and that the cops just went all crazy and started shooting people.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: Urantia1111

and

a reply to: Sremmons80

The cops were already there in place and had pole cameras mounted to record the action, they didn't show up after the fact.

There was no disturbance inside the restaurant until the police opened fire upon the group outside:


[…] Three of the dead were found in the parking lot just outside of the restaurant, four were found in front of the building and one had been dragged behind a neighboring restaurant.


*U PDATE* Report of Waco Police Affidavit/Warrants Inconsistent With Initial Public Claims By Same Police…

There was a regularly scheduled meeting of the COCI in which matters pertaining to motor cycle laws were to have been discusses. These meetings occur all the time, for years, and have never had any violence take place.

The events which occurred in the parking lot and the meeting which was taking place inside were only very remotely related insofar as they involved people who ride motorcycles.

This is not to say that there are not criminals among them, but to say that everyone there that day (and to further imply that anyone who rides) was involved in what is being portrayed is fallacious in the highest degree.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Urantia1111

Are you freaking serious?

1. It was a biker meeting inside a Twin Peaks restaraunt. Twin peaks, like the dirtier Hooters. I highly doubt many families were eating dinner there at this time.

2. It appears that the police did most of the shooting thus they are dangering more lives.

3. There is absolutely zero evidence of a biker shootout. If anything, the gag order and trumped up charges are an obvious sign of the county and police knowing they #ed up.

But hey, good on the police for slaughtering those reckless biker gangsters. Oh yea and charging bystanders with crimes. Woot +1



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: imitator
a reply to: Urantia1111

Yep your missing the point.... if you read the article above.


Lawyers in the case have seen “dashboard video of people fleeing the scene while shots ring out, audio of police threatening to shoot people if they rise from the ground


and who's to say it was a shootout between rival bikers? Nobody has seen any proof of this yet......



So the point im missing is that "lawyers" watched a video? Cops absolutely WILL threaten to shoot people getting up when they arrive at the scene of a gunfight. Thats their job. To control the scene. Its why they have guns. I still dont get what you expect them to do in this situation besides taking out feuding bikers. People who are shooting each other in front of police get shot by police.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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What is the zero evidence of a biker shootout?
I mean it isn't like this was your dads sunday crew out for a ride, these were gangs and well known rivals as well.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Those dang bullets, they just have a mind of their own!



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Having carefully reread the source article, it becomes obvious first that the tone of it is highly biased. Furthermore by its own admission, nobody has said anything about what ACTUALLY happened. Obviously gunshots were fired, "some" by police. One would have to conclude that "some" were not.

If thats the sum total of everything KNOWN to have happened, people are all riled up about what they only SPECULATE may have happened. Are we assuming that the cops simply stormed a peaceful chicken wing eating contest and started blowing people away? That seems unlikely to me, and i dont just love everything cops do by default either.

I know there is corruption, but by and large by my estimate, cops are the only thing standing between us and millions of violent assholes. Its not easy work and it gets messy sometimes.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Urantia1111

Nobody shot the guns, the bullets loaded themselves and committed suicide.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: Urantia1111


Are we assuming that the cops simply stormed a peaceful chicken wing eating contest and started blowing people away?


It would seem that this might not be too far from the truth of what actually happened.

Here are some eyewitness accounts from before the gag order was put in place:


William English, in an account circulated by his lawyer, said "I heard two pops that sounded like small caliber gunfire. Following that, I heard several bursts of assault weapon shots. I recognized the sound because I carried one of those weapons for six years as a Marine. That's all the gunfire I heard. Then the police started screaming 'Get down!'"


Others who were at the scene had the following to say:


A former Marine, Michael Devoll, told the local news station WFAA that he was just pulling into the Twin Peaks lot in a truck when he heard "a few rounds of handgun fire and then, I would say, an overbearing suppressing fire of M-4 rounds." Devoll characterized the ensuing melee as being mostly defined by a "barrage" of police rifle fire. "It was the most unorganized, unprofessional thing I've ever been a part of," he said.

The Associated Press reported, in the pages of the New York Times, that "several witnesses — at least three of them veterans with weapons training — told The Associated Press that the sound of rapid-fire rifle shots dominated," and that "Six witnesses interviewed by the AP describe a melee that began with a few pistol shots but was dominated by what sounded like short bursts of automatic gunfire." A named Navy vet, Steve Cochran, told the A.P. that "I heard one pistol shot. All the rest of the shots I heard were assault rifles," including sound-suppressed but audible rounds.


As you can see, a great many people who have the knowledge about such things call the official story into question.

Source for above quoted excerpts

William and Morgan English were arrested because:


Schwartz said they wore patches that said they support the Bandidos, so that tells him they are at least “somewhat involved in criminal activity.”


How would you like to have this happen to you simply because you are "somewhat involved?"

When pressed further, it was stated:


He said he saw nothing that day and has developed no subsequent evidence to show the Englishes are involved in criminal activity…..


reason.com blog




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