91-year-old woman charged over 260,000 Auschwitz deaths

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Men like Simon Weisenthal made a living out of chasing war criminals. He also altered evidence in order to manipulate people''s emotions.

You are quite right in what you say. It is about time those who embellished for their own reasons what happened during the war, when the rest of those involved want to forget about it need to be exposed now, because this trial is out of time. There is no one alive who can identify her, there is as you rightly say no evidence. Also I am amazed that the Germans, are actually doing this. Many Germans had no knowledge of what was happening and also no power whatsoever to stop it. In fact watching an elderly German interviewed who simply said "The Jews were taking over my country" was jumped on so fast by the interviewed it was embarrassing and certainly his experience was not to be tolerated or aired on the tv's of the West.

I do think the truth should be told, however I understand that man-friend of the ME Tony Blair wants to enforce laws about people even questioning the facts of the holocaust. I can't help wondering how much money he is asking for this and whether anyone will listen to this man whose propensity for the truth is sadly lacking.

This is an orange that has been squeezed too much and needs putting in the bin. We have all been witness to how the Palestinians are being slowly and deliberately murdered - another holocaust but apparently this one is fine, no problem and people should also not comment on the hypocrisy here.

a reply to: stumason

actually there were some SS members that were conscripted mostly from the Baltic States.

The Latvian Legion was created in January 1943 on the orders of Adolf Hitler following a request by Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler. The initial core of the force was populated by Latvian Schutzmannschaft auxiliary police battalions, which were formed several years earlier and had been previously engaged in battles in Eastern front and anti-partisan duties. Also some who had previously served in the notorious Arajs Kommando commando unit,[8] responsible for atrocities committed against Jews, Roma, and civilians along Latvia's border with the Soviet Union were transferred to the Latvian Legion.[9] One month after the unit was founded, German occupation authorities in Latvia started conscripting military age men. Draftees were given a choice between serving in the Waffen-SS Legions, serving as (German Wehrmacht) auxiliaries, or being sent to a slave labour camp in Germany. Those who tried to avoid one of those options were arrested and sent to concentration camps.[10] As a result, only 15-20% of the soldiers serving in the legion were actual volunteers.[6] Unlike in Lithuania, potential legionary recruits in Latvia did not organize an official boycott of conscription; some Latvians deserted however rather than serving the Nazi war effort.[1]

With Nazi Germany losing the war, conscription was extended to larger and larger numbers of Latvians. The first conscription, in 1943, applied to all Latvian men born from 1919 to 1924. The subsequent conscriptions extended to Latvians born between 1906 and 1928.

The division commanders and most of the staff were German SS officers. The individual combat regiments were typically commanded by Latvian officers.

After the Red Army broke through German lines at Nevel along the 1st Baltic Front in November 1943, advancing on Latvia,[11] and after initially resisting the German order to do so,[11] the Latvian Self-Administration took over mobilization from the Germans on November 13. On July 1, 1944 the Latvian Legion had 87,550 men. Another 23,000 Latvians were serving as Wehrmacht "auxiliaries".[10]

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I think it's a bit ridiculous to be going after 90 year olds for crimes committed over 70 years ago. Germany had AMPLE time in the previous decades to go after ex-Nazi's and sat on their hands and twiddled their thumbs and did nothing. Now they are all about to die off and NOW they suddenly want to prosecute them?

I am all for prosecuting war criminals, particularly Nazi's, but it's a little too late for that now in most, if not all, cases. What possible good can come from sticking a 91 year old in a jail cell, and one that wasn't directly involved in the camp as she was just a radio operator. Seems like desperation on the Germans part to look like they did something about it to me.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

And, once again, you might wish to re-read your source...

Draftees were given a choice between serving in the Waffen-SS Legions, serving as (German Wehrmacht) auxiliaries, or being sent to a slave labour camp in Germany.

Auxiliaries....

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

The number of people reported to have been executed in concentration camps during the time period in question is pretty much logistically impossible. They simply could not have disposed of so many bodies or even killed so many people given the technology at hand and the resources available.

Im not suggesting the holocaust did not take place. Just wondering as to why TPTB at the time somewhat fuddled the figures and what there agenda was in doing so?

Most "holocaust" deaths were caused by allied bombs destroying infrastructure, and thus food supplies. Very few mention the many, many dead Germans and other groups. Did you know that the six million figure was floated during World War One? It did not take, as the proper propaganda apparat was not in place yet.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Most "holocaust" deaths were caused by allied bombs destroying infrastructure, and thus food supplies. Very few mention the many, many dead Germans and other groups. Did you know that the six million figure was floated during World War One? It did not take, as the proper propaganda apparat was not in place yet.

Can you substantiate ANY of those ludicrous "facts"??

Or do you think its enough to just spew BS ?



WWII was and is the deadliest military conflict in human history.
And most people I know do acknowledge the majority of the deaths.

Unlike the rest of the civilian casualties of the war, the Jews (as well as the Roma, gays and a few other small groups) were targeted specifically for systematic extermination by the Nazis. It was a planned genocide.
The term ‘Holocaust’ refers specifically to that genocide, and not to the rest of the war’s casualties. This does not mean that other casualties were not important – they are.

As to the Germans, I am sorry about most of the civilians killed - who are not Nazis. But let’s not forget who was the aggressor – it was Nazi Germany. They built up their army, to be one of the most powerful in the world on the eve of the war; they annexed whole regions and countries, and eventually ATTACKED Poland. All along, the German public was ecstatic and supported the Nazis whole-heartedly.
I don’t think the same people who were the aggressors and initially supported the war, can complain about the consequences of their own actions, nor blame others, when the tide turns against them.
Regarding the numbers of casualties – German civilian casualties are far fewer in numbers then the numbers of holocaust victims, and certainly far less then the other civilian causalities who died directly or not due to German aggression.


As to the causes of death -- NO – most holocaust victims did NOT die as an indirect consequence of Allied bombings --- they died due to pre-meditated extermination by the Nazis and their collaborators. They mostly (but not only) died in Ghettos, concentration and death camps, built by the Nazis. By bullets, by gas and some by planned starvation by the Nazi occupiers.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Surely you are not implying the holocaust never happened? I really thought those holocaust deniers were myth!

I think the OP forgets that the defendant did not have to join the military.
She joined
She trained
She was an Officer
She had to know the purpose of the camps.

Should we let the members of ISIS off because they only watched an execution of a innocent?

if you type in "black lynching" in the search bar you will find pictures of whole communities with kids laughing around hanged or burn't black men and women. 2 things to note from those pics, 1 is how evil American civilians are compared to the German since they where under orders while these are just civilians, not to mention those people are now parents of the people running around now. Second is how justice picks and chooses, those people are still around as well as the kids seen laughing, you won't find one pic of an SS doing the gassings, but plenty of the Americans enjoying a good killing, so where are all the justice seekers who have even more evidence of accomplices of crimes than this lady who may or may not have known.

a reply to: samkent

The war in Iraq is illegal therefore every soldier there who has helped in the slaughter of over a million people and the ultimate destruction of the country should stand trial by your argument.

a reply to: samkent

"Should we let the members of ISIS off because they only watched an execution of a innocent?"

If indeed someone witnessed an execution performed by ISIS it hardly makes them a member of said organisation. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time could be enough for such a thing to take place. Certainly attempting to prevent or protest at such an act could quite possibly mean you were the next victim. However simply being there does not automatically make you in any way culpable or responsible.

Point of fact rather a few of us could be considered guilty by default by the same logic by way of viewing ISIS executions/atrocity's on Youtube and the like.

The woman is question was obviously part of one of the most heinously evil organisations in recorded history but lets face it her guilt and/or culpability regarding 260,000 murders has yet to be conclusively determined.

What get me with the ISIS terrorist fighters is that my own nation is actually entertaining the prospect of allowing them to return to my country.

a reply to: chishuppu

Charging Bush and Blair with war crimes would be a start.

a reply to: andy06shake

totally!!

As for ISIS returnees.....I don't bloody think so! Once someone voluntarily goes to fight for an opposing nation, as far as I'm concerned they have given up their citizenship by virtue of turning their back on their country of birth

I will say again for those that may have missed it, she was 20yrs old is being tried in the Juvenile court as her "crimes" took place when she was classed as a juvenile and she was o nly there 3months in total at the very end of the war. I think by virtue of her being classed as a juvenile that should exclude her from prosecution

a reply to: andy06shake

If you rate the Germans so high in the evil kill list, just where do you place the former colonists especially England, France and Belgium that slaughtered 15 million and cut of kids hands when fathers didn't produce enough rubber. The Germans where fighting those people, making the Germans the enemy of the colonizers of the world, so unless like those time you view whites as humans and everybody else subhumans you would realize how low on the list the germans should be.

a reply to: chishuppu

ERm I think you'll find that the Nazis (not necessarily all germans) thought of themselves as human and everyone else as subhuman, including gays gypsies, mentally ill, disabled, oh yeah and they practiced genocide on a massive scale

originally posted by: chishuppu
a reply to: andy06shake

If you rate the Germans so high in the evil kill list, just where do you place the former colonists especially England, France and Belgium that slaughtered 15 million and cut of kids hands when fathers didn't produce enough rubber. The Germans where fighting those people, making the Germans the enemy of the colonizers of the world, so unless like those time you view whites as humans and everybody else subhumans you would realize how low on the list the germans should be.

I feel certain that if we go far enough back in time, every single race/religion/etc on the planet has a history of death and destruction. It will continue until the end of time. It is our way. Always has been and always will be. Murders happen on an hourly, likely minute basis around the planet.

a reply to: chishuppu

It is not i who "rate the Germans so high in the evil kill list". That would be recorded history. I certainly don't rate the SS!

I think if you read the entirety of my posts in this thread you will relies i don't rate my own nation or others any better than i do Germany. End of the day i blame the people who sponsored both sizes during said conflict.

I blame the bankers and also there political puppets. I also blame human nature, and hope we never repeat the mistakes of our grandfathers. That being said i don't hold out much hope considering history's penchant for repetition.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

?

Most "holocaust" deaths were caused by allied bombs destroying infrastructure, and thus food supplies. Very few mention the many, many dead Germans and other groups. Did you know that the six million figure was floated during World War One? It did not take, as the proper propaganda apparat was not in place yet.

I realized I had not responded to the entirety of your comment.

You say the figure was floated in WW1. -- Really ??
Let me understand what you say: the figure (6 million victims), resulting from an idea (the systematic extermination of the Jews), was ‘floated’ at a time, when no one planned it yet ??? --- The 'logic' involved here is truly amazing!

The absurdity of your remark is beyond comprehension.
And your knowledge of history is somewhat twisted.

Hitler wrote his racist manifesto – Mein Kampf, whilst in jail around 1921-22.

The fact is during WW1, Jews were citizens and resided in all the nations involved in the conflict (certainly in Europe) – they wore the uniforms and fought on behalf of their individual nations, just like any other citizen. Many fought heroically on behalf of their nation.
That also includes Germany and Austria. More than 100,000 Jews served in the German army - many were awarded with the Iron Cross and many were killed in action.
Even Hitler's own commander in 1918 – was an Iron Cross decorated Jewish officer (Hugo Guttmann, you can look him up). Another example is Otto Frank (father of Anna Frank) - a Lieutenant during WW1 who was also awarded the Iron Cross. Incidentally he was sent to Auschwitz with his family during the Holocaust. There were many others, just like them.

The point is – bearing in mind actual historical facts – how could anyone “float” the 6 million figure of Jewish victims in the holocaust, an event which will occur 20 years later - during WW1 ????
...were magical unicorns and giants involved too...?

All your 'facts' are mere absurd conjectures, mentioned as if they are well established historical facts (not to mention the feeble reasoning you provide).


Stop regurgitating imaginary racist BS, do some independent research and learn actual historical facts, before you share some more of your 'wisdom'.

a reply to: jobex

[sigh] Now I ask you, is what I say not true because it is not true, or because I got it over a period of years, from many sources, and did not document said sources at the time? You need to read a mile in my moccasins, so to speak. You mention all the Jews who served in the German military with distinction, but have you considered if they would have done so if their co-religionists were being genocided? Um, yeah, that...a glitch in the official story. You are halfway to the truth already, my friend. As I have hammered away on this site, history is much more interesting and much more complicated than the version you and I were taught in school (History 101). For instance, Germany and Hitler did NOT start WW II - Poland did. The leader of Poland at the time, Edward Rydz-Śmigły, was pumped up by Britain and France with visions of Poland returned to its glory days, and he gave various anti-German militias a free hand in killing Germans in the regions Poland had annexed from Germany after WW I. At some point, Hitler had to act to save German lives, so you can divide the blame as you wish, but Hitler wanted peace as did the Kaiser before him, but outside forces forced his hand. The glorious allies wasted no time throwing Poland under the bus, btw.

As for the "holocaust" itself, I assign you this task: Go to a library which has a copy of the Jewish Encyclopedia, find in it the figures for the Jewish census of Europe for 1939 and 1945. What you will find may set you on the same course it set me on. In short, the numbers (their numbers!) do not indicate a loss of six million Jews in Europe during the years of the Nazi domination of Europe. We can discuss the rest another time...

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Surely you are not implying the holocaust never happened? I really thought those holocaust deniers were myth!

I'm saying a lot of myth has been made about it, mostly in order to convert Germany into a cash cow for Jewish-Occupied-Palestine. Consult the Jewish Encyclopedia for European Jewish census figures, 1939 - 1945.