Do ATSers only read the first line of every post?

First off... I have to admit that I amuse myself when I post... sometimes. However, after being a member for almost two years, I've learned that many ATSers simply read the first sentence -- or, worse, just pick up on some key words -- of a thread when they want to reply with the official line of their current ideology.

Now, drunk, bemused as the new year begins... I feel obliged to point out that a sizeable chunk of ATS posts are automated reactions to what has been posted.

Here are some examples of what I mean:
1)If someone starts a thread on anything related to the supposed end of the world, some members will automatically assume that this person is advocating the idea that the world is about to end.
2) If someone starts a thread about the literary or philosophical aspects of a certain theory... most ATSers will reply with responses that are aimed at dispelling the kernel of the root idea/movement in question INSTEAD OF discussing the artistic/philosophical/literary points/observations that the original poster was actually talking about. Note, for instance, how someone can start a thread on ATS about the nature of mere symbols of the supposed NWO and get responses that want to refute the idea that the NWO exists.
3)Someone who talks about creationism on ATS is treated as a creationsist; anyone wo mentions evolution is attacked as a straight darwinian.
4)Anyone on ATS who defends the US is considered an imperialist... anyone who wants to separate conscientious objection from deceptive subversion is a fascists.

These examples are all pretty limited -- I admit that I thought of them as I was posting... but my basic argument is still good: a sizeable chunk of threads on ATS become caught up with posts that are dictated by kneejerk reactions to keywords in starting posts instead of the actual ideas the author is trying to express.

To be honest... I'm starting this thread because I'd honestly like to be able to discuss, for example, the literary/mythological aspects of the Nibiru legend WITHOUT having to see some guy go on and on about how Nibiru couldn't exist AFTER I've already pointed out that I really just want to treat it (and other things beyond thsi example) as just abstract objects of discussion.

To be frank, I'm tired of seeing lectures on ATS that -- instead of being about what the thread is about -- are just mechanical recitations of a theological/scientific/economic/political/mechanical ideology.

[edit on 1-1-2005 by onlyinmydreams]

[edit on 1-1-2005 by onlyinmydreams]

Yes.

Oh, there was more to that post... i almost missed it lol.

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams
or, worse, just pick up on some key words -- of a thread when they want to reply with the official line of their current ideology.

Well that's what ATS is: a place for me to tell you what I think about stuff. =) On a more serious note, this goes far deeper than ATS. This is very much a matter of human pyschology which is extremely potent in what I call "pseudo intellectual" circles.
Humans are curious and they seek discovery. The problem is that when you combine this with the microwave oven culture you get people who expect to make their discoveries in 3 minutes. Somehow the microwave culture never picked up on the fact that anything you can cook in 3 minutes tastes awful and probably isn't good for you either.
Long story short, many people don't look at the world with a critical eye and question everything. Many who do (all of us I think, including myself) tend to make snap decisions once their first line of reasoning is complete- they never look at the alternatives just as long as they've found one little point of view that "works" so that they can "know" things.
Just look at peoples relgious beliefs. Many people stick to the first religion they are taught. They get their "answers" and thats all they need- who cares if there are tens of millions of thinking people of other convictions- the first one that a given individual comes to believe is generally what they believe irrevokably, and their first alternative to that is athiesm rather than a different religion.

Now, drunk, bemused as the new year begins... I feel obliged to point out that a sizeable chunk of ATS posts are automated reactions to what has been posted.

I drunk myself sick and dehyrdated and i'm starting to sober up. Thats the horrible thing about hitting it too hard too early- you ruin the whole night. But this is the wrong holiday. Festivus was a few days ago- thats the one where you gather the family around and air your greivances (although drunkenness was not explicity stipulated in that particular episode of Seinfeld).

2) If someone starts a thread about the literary or philosophical aspects of a certain theory... most ATSers will reply with responses that are aimed at dispelling the kernel of the root idea/movement in question INSTEAD OF discussing the artistic/philosophical/literary points/observations that the original poster was actually talking about. Note, for instance, how someone can start a thread on ATS about the nature of mere symbols of the supposed NWO and get responses that want to refute the idea that the NWO exists.

Although it depends a bit on the individual thread, things like this can be VERY esoteric. Not too many of us know a whole lot about outdated religious symbols, obscure historical figures, and rare texts. When things like this come up and are linked to a very big issue it is simply beyond many people to discuss the actual subject matter in detail. The obvious angle into such an interesting topic is usually the logical one. For example, "thats very interesting and i dont know enough to say much about that symbol, but i fail to see how it could be a touchstone for a group of ultra-powerful NWO conspirators if there is not evidence of an NWO existing.
I'm not saying that these posts are a good thing or a bad thing, just that I can see why they come into being and in a narrow way I can see the justification for them, even if they are an unwelcome distraction from a more involved conversation.

4)Anyone on ATS who defends the US is considered an imperialist... anyone who wants to separate conscientious objection from deceptive subversion is a fascists.

This is a huge one. Morals are a very specific and complicated thing because the specific circumstances, intentions, relativism, and a million other things have a HUGE bearing on them. On top of that- it's subjective- there is no "written in stone" morality (that can be concretely proven anyway- i am aware of the 10 commandments).
All that, but nobody wants to accept it because it is an emotionally charged issue. Nobody wants to admit that their morals are subjective- we want to apply them. Thats what morals are for- projecting into our decisions about the outside world.
I get it from both sides around here, as do many. One minute a brainwashed neo-con yesman and the next I'm a traitor to my country. It sucks, but good luck stopping it. Like I said, this is the nature of morals and any discussion affected by morals will have this aspect to it.

To be frank, I'm tired of seeing lectures on ATS that -- instead of being about what the thread is about -- are just mechanical recitations of a theological/scientific/economic/political/mechanical ideology.

I know what you're saying, and I have an idea sort of. What if we started a "society" within ATS- all tagged our avatars with an agreed upon symbol, and agreed amongst ourselves to make a personal effort to be objective in issues like these and to accept reproof from one another when we failed this. Sort of like a "Deny Dogma" sect within ATS? I'm as guilty as anyone, but I'd be willing to make an effort at fixing the problem. It certainly doesn't make ATS any more enjoyable for anyone.

Well, I did actually read all of your post, so I won't go on beyond what I have to say here, because I have no opinion on Niburu. People do gloss over threads to find what interests them especially in the title/subject and then speed read through a thread to find the good points or maybe even good posters. I can say that I can't blame them as there is way to much to read on here without sacrificing the rest of your free time.

you got it ben!
I think when you start a post, it should be short and sweet and directly to the point. Then see what replies you get, add more as it goes on-if you really want opinions, get them "real time" if possible, and respond back to live responses. If you post an essay, right off the bat, you'll sound like you already know all you want to know about the topic, and really dont care what replies you get. Just get their attention at first, and you can count on more interested posters. Most likely, your reply to their reply can be a mile long, and since they are now involved, they will get into what you say more.

Originally posted by c00ster
If you post an essay, right off the bat, you'll sound like you already know all you want to know about the topic, and really dont care what replies you get.

Yes, I really don't understand the essay posts at all. It really does look like they have everything figured out and needs no response.

So why shouldn't this be in the RANT forum?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
So why shouldn't this be in the RANT forum?

Well, it is the new year and he did say he had a few. It is under website-related discussions and ATS is a website, so I guess it can go here. Besides, the mods haven't moved it, so it is golden.

You gotta admit, many people seek and find posts just to spout their beliefs without reading through the jest of an entire thread. No one on here gains anything by solely stating what they think, but by reasonably debating what is actually true and what is false - deny ignorance, right!?

The Vagabond, I like your idea of a 'society'. Kinda like a Good Posters Guild? Only thing is, we wouldn't be able to bar non-members from posting

who, on earth, has the time to read an entire page? not me.

I will guess that most posters skim thru some of the highlights and respond to that. I think its the fault of the author of the thread for feeding us so much information, and if they already have all the information, why post it? It becomes a lecture and nothing more. I find those threads boriiiing....

Well, I only got here day before yesterday, and I already see that I will have to skim like crazy just to get the gist. Fortunately, the fact that I often don't have time to read all the way through won't stop me from putting in my 2 cents. But aren't these forums a place to vent as much as a place to become informed?

I think as long as we respect each other's viewpoints, it really doesn't matter what goes where or who reads it. We all have something to learn from one another.....IF we have the time!

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams
To be honest... I'm starting this thread because I'd honestly like to be able to discuss, for example, the literary/mythological aspects of the Nibiru legend WITHOUT having to see some guy go on and on about how Nibiru couldn't exist AFTER I've already pointed out that I really just want to treat it (and other things beyond thsi example) as just abstract objects of discussion.

Just because my username is Nibiru, i'm sure some people automatically presume i think we are all going to be destoyed by a giant planet and that we were all created by aliens.
At the time I joined I had been reading some of Sitchin's books, so Nibiru just seemed to come to mind when I had to choose a username. That doesn't mean I agree with what he wrote, I just find it interesting.

Originally posted by c00ster
I think when you start a post, it should be short and sweet and directly to the point. Then see what replies you get, add more as it goes on

I agree completely

About skimming through posts. I admit i will skim through some of them to see if they interest me, but if I am going to reply to that thead then i will make sure i read it all before hand. I know then i won't be repeating something that has already mentioned.

It does sort of suck that skimming is a necessary evil of such a big community, but its not just more clutter- we also have more worthwhile contributions to threads.
I try REALLY hard not to skim, I limit the number of threads I view more often, but still I find myself completely unable to read through some posts.

As for the guild... we couldn't ban people but we would at least be able to slightly improve things by controlling our own actions. Also, having a guild with a distinctive mark would lend credibility to those of us who took pains to be "good posters" and perhaps prevent good posters from being lost amongst the clutter.

I read through all of the posts most of the time, occasionally if it is a really long thread i read the first 3 pages then skip a couple depending on whether its a good read or not. I agree with you most definatly that there are knee jerk reactions, and depending on who starts the initial jerk it can quickly kill your thread and loose your original point.

I read a thread the other day where it went very wrong for a member, who i thought had a point, but because it was a touchy subject and some high moral grounded members immediately got involved to call the member ignorant, followed by chimes of other similar minded members, who appeared to me to be all to quick to pump the author of the thread, full of lead, without exploring the idea he was submitting or the fact that he may have worded himself wrong [which could be fatal now as we have lost the use of the edit button].

But Vagabond said it.

Well that's what ATS is: a place for me to tell you what I think about stuff. =) On a more serious note, this goes far deeper than ATS. This is very much a matter of human pyschology which is extremely potent in what I call "pseudo intellectual" circles.
Humans are curious and they seek discovery. The problem is that when you combine this with the microwave oven culture you get people who expect to make their discoveries in 3 minutes. Somehow the microwave culture never picked up on the fact that anything you can cook in 3 minutes tastes awful and probably isn't good for you either.

we will all just have to put up with it.

Btw i cook my own dinner every day, takes about 35mins to cook and 10mins to eat. That microwave stuff will kill ya man. IMHO

In defense of long initial posts (which I have done I know) ---- if you try to make it short and sweet you get hit with "Proof?" "Links?" etc. so I know I try to lay out most of the information right off the bat. And I do agree that makes it hard to respond to.

And Yes I do think people read the title header and possibly the first sentence a lot of times and start responding ......... at least skim the post before you tell people they are wrong or crazy.

I won't go to each item individually -- but I agree with you completely.


jm

The Vagabond and I are working on a guild.
Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated. Please U2U us if you have anything to contribute.

Thanks

OIMD

You imperialist*

Actually, on topics of interest, I will read each line and thought in your posts.

I find myself not reading posts that are badly constructed, show no research and little independent knowledge of subject matter, and contain predominantly insults without furthering the discussion any. Some days those tend to permeate through the mess more than others, so we read and learn less. As quality is deemed to be somehow "subjective", laissez faire has applied as a corollary.

*line 16

You should have thrown in a bonus question at the end to see if everyone read your entire post....lol

Honestly though...I've ranted and raved about the same thing myself...and then I turn into a hypocrite and glaze over threads or avoid reading replies entirely...

But I do usually try and avoid inserting my foot into my mouth whenever possible - some members just chew on their toes all day and are oblivious to the world around them....

what.... did you say something about ATSers and posting....

sorry, I only read the first line.... :shk::shk::shk: