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Crack in the BRICS ? - India Turns West

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posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 06:42 AM
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From the past couple of months i have been noticing the trend of India , Russia relationship going downhill slowly.


timesofindia.indiatimes.com...< br />
A few days before the UNGA session, Chinese and Russian diplomats, in a stealth operation, attempted to insert a couple of paragraphs into the text. If they had succeeded, it would have diluted the entire negotiations on unnecessary technicalities which would have meant the UN would be negotiating UNSC reform for years and years without a decision in sight.

China wasn't giving up without a bigger fight. They reached out to a number of national capitals to get the text amended before it reached the floor on Monday. Some countries agreed, but ultimately China failed to get the numbers that India had. In all of this diplomatic warfare, the US stayed strangely silent - either to see whether India could win on its own, or because they are keeping their powder dry to kill the process later, or because they silently supported the Sino-Russian move.


The move from china was along expected lines but the fact that it was backed by Russia has made a huge sense of Betrayal among those in India. Even though the Russian FM met Indian FM and assured Russian support for India's entry into UN as a Permanent member. The damage had already been done.US staying silently is really not a surprise but the fact that Russians tried to covertly dilute the UNSC reform text did come as a shock.


www.sunday-guardian.com...
But the same sources claim that Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin was asked by UK Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin through Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov to "ensure that Bose never returned to India and was never heard from again". According to them, "because of Bose's policy of collaboration with Germany under Hitler and Japan under Tojo, the Soviet dictator saw him as an enemy"


Basically Subash Chandra Bose was an Indian Freedom fighter who according to official reports died of a plane crash in 1945. He did meet Hitler and Japan to fight the British militarily. Point is, he is revered in India as one of the greatest Heroes. Now the problem is that He never died in 1945 and he was as per the reports kept in a Soviet gulag under Stalin under request of then Indian govt.The New govt. decision to release secret documents about him will be huge.

1. If Soviets are found to have kept him in Prison then the positive image that the Soviets and Russians have at public eyes will fall drastically. The opposition party in India which was then Indian govt. who allegedly asked Stalin to keep the Freedom fighter there in Soviet Prison will also have a receive a huge blow to their already sorry image.

2. The timing of the release is suspicious as it co-insides with the Russian Betrayal.



Above is the survey conducted by Pew research center which suggests is rather alarming. U.S and Japan has apparently already taken the lead among the most favorable countries according to India.



timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

India on Friday abstained from a UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) vote for adoption of a UN Inquiry Commission report on Israel's 'Operation Protective Edge' in Gaza last year, which also calls upon both Israel and Palestine to prosecute perpetrators of war crimes.
While 41 countries (including most of the European Union) voted in favour of adopting the report, five, including India, abstained. The US was the only country to vote against it. Four other countries who abstained were Kenya, Ethiopia, Paraguay and Macedonia.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...


From everything i read and understand, i do feel that India is slowly but surely turning to west. From having closer relation ships to Japan, refusing to send contingent to China last month. Having Naval excersices with countries in the south China sea along with U.S and Japan. With increasing military engagements with US. I do feel that the new Indian govt. has chosen and completely different path when it comes to Foreign policy as compared to its predecessor.From what it seems engagements with the US will only grow...


edit on 19-9-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 07:14 AM
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The BRICS are not a (political or even an economic) bloc. The term is just a convenient way of referring to a group of large, economically powerful countries that are not part of the West. Each has its own policies and rivalries, and all have different systems of government.

India has always been pretty westward-looking anyway.


edit on 19/9/15 by Astyanax because: of word salad.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

I just finished reading about something of a controversy there that just happened . I guess knowing the history and the culture helps and India has not been on my radar to any extent . Any how I thought I would drop the piece of and maybe it will make a better picture as to what might be going on and them having to admit it publicly .

Modi blows his cover – and the loss is India’s

BY M.K. BHADRAKUMAR on SEPTEMBER 10, 2015 in ASIA TIMES NEWS & FEATURES, AT TOP WRITERS, SOUTH ASIA
India recently witnessed a strange spectacle of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his cabinet colleagues subjecting themselves to an intense scrutiny by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh or RSS, the Hindu nationalist organization, regarding their ‘performance’ in office.
atimes.com...



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 07:50 AM
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India, as the world's largest democracy and part of the British Commonwealth has always looked Westward. The BRICS are not really a coherent alliance and are in competition with each other. People who paint the BRICA as some sort of competitor to the developed and democratic West are living in dream land.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: paraphi


People who paint the BRICA as some sort of competitor to the developed and democratic West are living in dream land.

Famous last words. Nahh, they'll never fight back.

India is currently the largest purchaser of US arms, aren't they? Who they gonna use them on, the Russians and Chinese? Or Pakistan, a sometime ally of the west.

CNBC



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
India has always been pretty westward-looking anyway.


Agreed. As part of the Anglosphere they have always been more Western in many aspects.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

PM Modi was born and brought up in the RSS. The ideologue of the RSS is vehemently hated by many liberals as it supports and encourages local culture and history. These articles are just fear mongering but should not be taken seriously. Infact many in India voted knowing his ideology and his backing



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
Famous last words. Nahh, they'll never fight back.
India is currently the largest purchaser of US arms, aren't they? Who they gonna use them on, the Russians and Chinese? Or Pakistan, a sometime ally of the west.


Um. India has warred with two of the countries you cite - Pakistan and China. China has territorial claims to large parts of India. Think it through. An increasingly militaristic and authoritarian China, with a restless population, looking to play the nationalist card to divert attention from increasing un-popularity and demands for civil liberties - anything could happen.

As I said, the BRICS don't share much in common except they are developing nations. They do not work for common cause. The developed and democratic West do wok for common cause.
edit on 19/9/2015 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 10:52 AM
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From the past couple of months i have been noticing the trend of India , Russia relationship going downhill slowly.

Ok so you have no life?
If you have been watching you will know India is more western focused....



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: muSSang



From the past couple of months i have been noticing the trend of India , Russia relationship going downhill slowly.

Ok so you have no life?
If you have been watching you will know India is more western focused....


India did have good relations with the US. But the previous Indian govt. had setup close relations with Russia. In fact India was far closer to Russia than to America only not too long ago. Indian foreign diplomacy has played its cards well. Pretty much the only country which can send a military for excersices with Qatar/ Saudi's get support form Israel, build a port in Iran and send Naval ships there while sending ships to South china sea to support Vietnam while having joint military excsersices with China. What i state here is what has been happening recently.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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India is trying to stay neutral
And it should
if it chooses to side with either US OR Russia
the other will side with Pakistan.
for lolz India should side with Iceland
at least they have responsible banking and cold beer
edit on 19-9-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

Considering people attack the US anytime we get involved in something.. Maybe this was an example that countries need to figure some things out on their own and come to their own conclusions. Had the US got involved we would be hearing nothing about Russian and Chinese duplicity and everything about the US this and the US that meddling in this or meddling in that.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

True, but it goes deeper than that.

The Old World always had two distinct metacultures. The dividing line between them is, roughly, the Brahmaputra river and the deserts of Central Asia above the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau. I suspect they were, at bottom, linguistic.

To the west, India, Arabia, North Africa, Europe, all connected in a dense web of commercial and cultural interchange.

To the east, China and her satellites. Yet even many of these satellites — the lands we today call Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Korea, Japan and Indonesia — show the influence of Indian culture, both linguistically and most notably in the presence of Buddhism.

Indians — and by the way, I'm not one — tend to see their culture as the parent of the West.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax

Indians — and by the way, I'm not one — tend to see their culture as the parent of the West.


I would tend to agree on many points, most notably the language.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: paraphi
You mean like the EU? I don't see them as one big happy family of nations. They fleecing each other calling it Austerity, and can't seem to combine to solve their current refugee problem.


When did China war with India? I don't see China currently threatening India either. The Brics might not be best friends ideology wise, they probably wouldnt even exist if they didn't have a common enemy in EU, US (NATO). Same with China and Russia.

NATO expansion into the void left by Warsaw Pact is driving them into each others arms.

Each others arms, get it?



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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I wouldn't call this accurate. Indian like China has billions of population with mostly poor. It is most likely the ones who have money or rich who are doing the vote. How much you wanna bet most Indians doesn't want to go to war against China??

Indians are getting vote is because they are either threatened, payed off, or given US special interests like technology. As far as we know Indians are no good at making military technological advancement. All their weapons are either from Russia or US.

If India does join a war with US(if US does invades) against China you'll know that India is a mere puppet of US or Western Elite.

edit on 19-9-2015 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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India has a lot of ties with the west and has some conflicts with China. BRICS is just a name for the 5 emerging economies that want to have a bigger say in the world market (since they produce). China's yuan is the basis for a new monetary system supported by BRICS economies, but each country has its own interests and having stronger ties between some "members" isn't going to please anyone.

Russia feels a great threat from the west that pushed them in looking for a close tie with China as a mean of protecting their eastern side. India and China skirmish rather often about Kashmere, Nepal and Burma, and it's natural that the closeness of the sinorussian block makes India uncomfortable in a weaker position among the allies.
Brazil and S.Africa aren't big players in the east so India can't find much support, the west is then the most logical solution and the west policy today is "no-Russia".

I agree that India is trying to keep a neutral position, will continue to have smaller conflicts with China but unless forced will not look for a big fight. I see no chance that India will side with the eastern block in case of a big conflict, but given that Pakistan is pro-west aswell these days I wouldn't bet on them getting involved too much at all.
edit on 19 9 2015 by Mastronaut because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

You're a record repeating. The BRICS are not enemies of the EU, US or NATO. There are no strings that bind any of the BRICS except opportunity.

China has had two wars with China in the last few decades over areas that China claim.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

The BRICS are not enemies of the EU, US or NATO. There are no strings that bind any of the BRICS except opportunity.

Of course they aren't enemies, yet. The US government is the one seemingly at war with the world and everyone in it. The rest of nations can only form loose alliances to deal with the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, if'n they have to.

You might want to rewrite that last bit of your post.

edit on 19-9-2015 by intrptr because: spelling



posted on Sep, 20 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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From the perspective of an Indian...

It is very broad statement to say India turns to West.There are basically two problems with that statement,
1.There is a sense of "India" but it's so illusory and mythical that simplistic assertion that whole India turns to West doesn't work.We have an identity but it's so fragmented that it is equal of not having one,technically.
2.We are not in a position to turn to anybody right now.Let's just say right now we are waiting.But to my knowledge and analysis we will not be turning to anybody unless there is an extreme and urgent need.
Why?
Our history,or whatever can be known,puts us in a senior citizen category.We have seen and heard enough.We have seen good times and bad times and after thousand of years our attitude has reached a state where we actually don't care anymore.The empires we built or tried to built never stayed.From Chandragupta Maurya to Ashoka to Mughals we chased an ideal which never gave us peace.We failed to build an identity through arms.But we build an identity through basic bonds which we all share with each other.

After 1700 our good days came to an end.But the thing is we have seen bad days before so we knew it was supposed to happen and we soldiered on.After India got Independence politics became very muddled.

Due to multiculturalism and inherent craziness ,average indians identified most with America than any other country.To this date that concept holds true.America isn't great because of its nuclear or economic might but it is great because anybody can say "I have the right to not agree with you".But American scholars and Media back then saw India as this crazy place which was ready plunge into chaos any time soon.Compared to us American/West saw Pakistan as a stable country due to its compact scale and unified culture.We had nothing,in total chaos and utter poverty. When Pakistani cities were flooded with luxury goods and items our middle class families had to beg and borrow food just to survive.

Our poverty and need for inclusive growth made socialism a darling.Nehru thought China will be our big brother and when China betrayed him,he took it too personally.America except for grains in the 60-70s pretty much sided with Pakistan in every matter international matter.And it still shields Pakistan.1950-1960 we believed in Socialism so much that we changed our Constitution to reflect that value.At that time only Soviet Russia helped us with arms so average Indian sought a refuge in the idea that of Soviet Russia as a big brother while not understanding the fact that why America sided with Pakistan.A less well known fact that we had long association with Israel but kept under the wraps due to internal politics.

But after collapse of Soviet Union world changed.From Clinton era we came a bit closer to America but still didn't forget the attitude we got from American politicians in the 50s.Russia slowly started to loose its grounds and power in India.You can ascertain the loss of power as it's reflected in the arms purchase contracts given to countries.From the Bush era India very cautiously sided with America,based on issues, which it will continue to do so.But it needs to be kept in mind that general perception is still Russia is an ally and USA shields Pakistan while giving us occasional treats to mollify us.

Now last few years,few things changed.

1.Huge loss of Indian Communist parties - Communist parties suffered a huge loss in several states.Compared to previous election where they were in a position to play king makers now they can only suck their thumbs.Communist ideology got divided sharply into Bengal line and Kerala line.
Bengal lines were advocating more open market economy and policies favouring Industrialisation.Being an agricultural economy people got irrationally scared and actually bengal communists lost with a huge margin against a right wing party supported by American money who advocated bogus ideologies which communists used to advocate in 50s.So in other words communists here lost their ground because they were seeking change and people were not ready for it.If anybody is curious I can explain it later.This fact will hugely influence Indian Foreign Policy.No more black flags for John kerry...lol.

2. Willingness to engage in a different kind of battle - Military strategy changed significantly compared to previous government.
a.Now soldiers are given liberty to reply in a fitting manner.In other words they are asked to inflict heavy damages in response Pakistani firings.From the china side we are engaging in cat and mouse game.We are destroying their posts and pushing more soldiers in the borders and more stand offs are happening compared to earlier era ,while avoiding full blown conflict.
b.National Security Advisor Ajit Doval declared a policy of active engagement with enemy while AVOIDING war at all costs.In other words since they like to blow each other up,we may help them covertly.But we are not ready and see no benefit to be engaged in a full blown war with anybody.See this clip,new government policy explained by Ajit Doval,

www.youtube.com...

3.Active engagement with South East Asian countries- "Look East" was a policy formulated by previous government.Modi is pursuing it far more actively.Thats why we are more and more venturing deep into other country's boundary while that concerned country keep eyes closed.They are deeply uncomfortable with Chinese presence,we understand their sentiment and play agony aunt.

Now with this development as written in OP,situation became a bit more complex.OP has written very elaborately so I won't get into the matter more except saying I agree.The situation with Subhas Chandra Bose is a very significant one and its importance can be ascertained by a lecture by National Security Advisor A.Doval from this clip,

www.youtube.com...

Now if Russia had anything to do with Subhash Chandra Bose,you can imagine the situation
and fall out.

..Continued



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