Attention Members: never give out your private email address in ATS private messages...

a reply to: AccessDenied

You may think you know a member here well enough to trust them with your email, so that you can converse off site about things you may not feel comfortable about in the U2U system.

now that is extremely silly. not comfortable about in the U2U system? that implies lack of trust for ATS staff - even more, it implies they're reading all private messages (and i even doubt anyone but the site owners has access to that).

ATS already has our email addresses, if those can be connected to real life identities - well, you had to trust ATS at least a little bit to give them your email address.

and if that email address was just an additional email for registrations, you can create another such email for people that insist on getting one - without revealing your main address that may be tracked back to you.

now, don't get me wrong, i'm against giving your email address to anyone but the people you really feel you can trust. that being said, your logic is flawed. i can't imagine U2U being in any way unsafe. i know first hand that Skeptic can be trusted with far more personal information than just an email address. ATS does respect your privacy.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Also, once you give someone access to your email, if they are tech savvy they can get your contacts list and start sending out messages to people on your contact list pretending to be you.

how does giving someone your email address equal to giving someone ACCESS to your email account?

giving some stranger your email address is a sign of being naive.
giving some stranger ACCESS to your email account (that is, address and password) is a sign of extreme stupidity and such person deserves whatever hits them.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I never got a reply from Skeptic, but shouldn't people who ask for things like your employer in a thread automatically get their post removed? I was really upset when after complaining about just such a post that it was not removed and the writer was not censured for it.

i guess it's complicated. one can ask for some proof of someone's claims, that - while doesn't have to contain personal information directly - may or may not be linked back to that person's identity. the person that asks doesn't know if that's the case - and even if that's the case, it's asking for proof out in the open, not trying to talk someone into giving out personal information via private messages. it's up to the person asked to choose.

there are, after all, quite a few persons here that don't hide their real life identity at all - for various reasons. some are even pretty well known in real life. so no, i guess asking out in the open for a proof that may reveal someone's identity as a side effect, isn't bad. it's in entirely different ballpark than this thread's topic.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster
a reply to: grandmakdw

Also, once you give someone access to your email, if they are tech savvy they can get your contacts list and start sending out messages to people on your contact list pretending to be you.

how does giving someone your email address equal to giving someone ACCESS to your email account?

giving some stranger your email address is a sign of being naive.
giving some stranger ACCESS to your email account (that is, address and password) is a sign of extreme stupidity and such person deserves whatever hits them.

Yes, someone who has your email address can get into your email.

It has happened to a number of friends personally.
I got an email from a close friend that said his son was "in africa" or some such
and needed money to get home, it asked me to help.
Well he is quite well to do for one and for another I don't think his child was overseas.
It turned out someone got his email address and hacked into it and was "pfishing" from it.

So yes someone with enough tech savvy can get into your email and use it to send emails to your friends.

This particular friend was the second one it happened to.

My friend was mortified and had to explain it to all his friends.

So I assure you that giving someone your email, can if they want to and have the know how, can get access to all of your contacts.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: jedi_hamster
a reply to: grandmakdw

Also, once you give someone access to your email, if they are tech savvy they can get your contacts list and start sending out messages to people on your contact list pretending to be you.

how does giving someone your email address equal to giving someone ACCESS to your email account?

giving some stranger your email address is a sign of being naive.
giving some stranger ACCESS to your email account (that is, address and password) is a sign of extreme stupidity and such person deserves whatever hits them.

Yes, someone who has your email address can get into your email.

It has happened to a number of friends personally.
I got an email from a close friend that said his son was "in africa" or some such
and needed money to get home, it asked me to help.
Well he is quite well to do for one and for another I don't think his child was overseas.
It turned out someone got his email address and hacked into it and was "pfishing" from it.

So yes someone with enough tech savvy can get into your email and use it to send emails to your friends.

This particular friend was the second one it happened to.

My friend was mortified and had to explain it to all his friends.

So I assure you that giving someone your email, can if they want to and have the know how, can get access to all of your contacts.

complete BS. to hack into someone's email account, the server has to be vulnerable, or the password set (or password recovery answer) has to be simple to guess, to the point of stupidity.

with gmail or outlook.com accounts, with two-stage authentication enabled, there's NO WAY someone can break in without hacking google or microsoft servers.

so don't spread FUD based on the mistakes and ignorance of your old friends.

also, one can send an email that looks like it was sent from some account (yours), but it really wasn't. email address can be faked, it's easy to check by looking at the message header. such sender can't receive any reply sent to that (real) address, obviously, but assuming someone gave him your address AND an address of one of your friends (he could find it online somewhere, having yours), he could send a message to your friend, looking like it came from you, with some fairytale asking to send money via western union "because i won't be able to check email again soon blah blah". social engineering.

you're just spreading panic without understanding how things work. what would be the point of having an email address if you wouldn't be able to - safely - give it to anyone without a risk of it being hacked?

I think it is pretty clear here.

Do not SOLICIT anybody's email, this is considered against site policy.
Be very careful to whom you give your email, if at all, as it can lead to unpleasant situations.

The rest is nitpicking.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

you're just spreading panic without understanding how things work....

And this little talent for hyperbole, that this posters possesses, is the reason why her self professed credentials are in question.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster
a reply to: AccessDenied

You may think you know a member here well enough to trust them with your email, so that you can converse off site about things you may not feel comfortable about in the U2U system.

now that is extremely silly. not comfortable about in the U2U system? that implies lack of trust for ATS staff - even more, it implies they're reading all private messages (and i even doubt anyone but the site owners has access to that).

ATS already has our email addresses, if those can be connected to real life identities - well, you had to trust ATS at least a little bit to give them your email address.

and if that email address was just an additional email for registrations, you can create another such email for people that insist on getting one - without revealing your main address that may be tracked back to you.

now, don't get me wrong, i'm against giving your email address to anyone but the people you really feel you can trust. that being said, your logic is flawed. i can't imagine U2U being in any way unsafe. i know first hand that Skeptic can be trusted with far more personal information than just an email address. ATS does respect your privacy.

Everyone has their own level of comfort. As well as their own level of risk. Take it how you will.

Doesn't ATS have my email address?

What comfort can I take in that?

Just wondering.

Why is SO's post such a hard premise to follow?

Outside The Comfort Zone

originally posted by: butcherguy
Doesn't ATS have my email address?

What comfort can I take in that?

Just wondering.

If you're not comfortable with using the email address you currently have associated with your ATS account, you can assign a new one in your account settings.

If you do, I recommend using a unique email address or alias for ATS, which you can get for free from any number of online providers (be sure to check their terms of service). It is understandable and commendable that members and potential members will want to protect their privacy, and we are 100% on board with that.

I also recommend using a password manager, generating very long, cryptographically strong passwords for your account, changing your password often, and doing so for every site you visit.

We go to extraordinary lengths to keep ATS secure and protect member privacy, but we're not perfect, and though we can recommend steps for members to take to improve their security, we cannot take those steps for them. So if you have doubts of any kind, I recommend heeding them and taking action to mitigate them.

As always, if you or any member should see anything suspicious or be the target of any attempts to solicit personal information from you, please alert us and we will investigate. Also, any member is welcome to send me a private message anytime if there's a question, problem or concern I may be able to help with.

As for comfort, I offer none.

On the Internet, paranoia is a virtue.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: jedi_hamster
a reply to: grandmakdw

Also, once you give someone access to your email, if they are tech savvy they can get your contacts list and start sending out messages to people on your contact list pretending to be you.

how does giving someone your email address equal to giving someone ACCESS to your email account?

giving some stranger your email address is a sign of being naive.
giving some stranger ACCESS to your email account (that is, address and password) is a sign of extreme stupidity and such person deserves whatever hits them.

Yes, someone who has your email address can get into your email.

It has happened to a number of friends personally.
I got an email from a close friend that said his son was "in africa" or some such
and needed money to get home, it asked me to help.
Well he is quite well to do for one and for another I don't think his child was overseas.
It turned out someone got his email address and hacked into it and was "pfishing" from it.

So yes someone with enough tech savvy can get into your email and use it to send emails to your friends.

This particular friend was the second one it happened to.

My friend was mortified and had to explain it to all his friends.

So I assure you that giving someone your email, can if they want to and have the know how, can get access to all of your contacts.

complete BS. to hack into someone's email account, the server has to be vulnerable, or the password set (or password recovery answer) has to be simple to guess, to the point of stupidity.

with gmail or outlook.com accounts, with two-stage authentication enabled, there's NO WAY someone can break in without hacking google or microsoft servers.

so don't spread FUD based on the mistakes and ignorance of your old friends.

also, one can send an email that looks like it was sent from some account (yours), but it really wasn't. email address can be faked, it's easy to check by looking at the message header. such sender can't receive any reply sent to that (real) address, obviously, but assuming someone gave him your address AND an address of one of your friends (he could find it online somewhere, having yours), he could send a message to your friend, looking like it came from you, with some fairytale asking to send money via western union "because i won't be able to check email again soon blah blah". social engineering.

you're just spreading panic without understanding how things work. what would be the point of having an email address if you wouldn't be able to - safely - give it to anyone without a risk of it being hacked?

All I can tell you is this happened to 2 different of my friends.

I am very careful and cautious as to whom I give my email address to.
I use a spam filter and yes because of the experiences of my friends, I am extraordinarily cautious.
I don't believe in the fairy tale that one is safe in giving others their email address.
I maintain a "fake" email address for sites that demand a current email address, it has absolutely none of my real contacts in it, nor does anyone I work with or know even know that "fake" account exists.
That is the safe and prudent way to handle email in this day and age.

a reply to: grandmakdw

For three pages patient members have been trying to hand hold you on the distinctions regarding personal info. Do you really care or do you just want to complain?

I love your spunk and you seem to have a lot to offer the site but really, let it go.

originally posted by: JetBlackStare
a reply to: grandmakdw

For three pages patient members have been trying to hand hold you on the distinctions regarding personal info. Do you really care or do you just want to complain?

I love your spunk and you seem to have a lot to offer the site but really, let it go.

Hand hold? What is wrong with saying I think it is best to keep ones identity safe and to be extra cautious as to whom you allow access to your personal "real" life?

[snipped]

I will let it go, but I will continue to report and complain each and every time a member insists on me revealing my personal information to satisfy their moribund curiosity as to my identity.

This will be my last post in this thread but I want to warn the repeat offenders that I will be persistent in complaining each and every time they ask for personal information. You see an example of someone above who is morbidly curious as to my identity and why I am concerned by the persistent requests to reveal my identity by regular members.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You made the point for yourself...

It doesn't matter to ATS what anyone ASKS you to do, unless you fulfill their request with data, then it's on you.

We won't hammer someone for asking for proof, but, we will hammer anyone who gives it to them publicly, for their own good and to protect our own TOS.

Does that make sense?

ETA: There is no violation of the TOS/TAC by asking for proof to back up claims. It IS a violation to give personal info and it is also a violation to seek to phish said info via the PM system or any other sneaky method one may conceive of.

Simply asking for proof you are who you claim to be in a thread or, asking for your substantiating info in a thread is not a violation, it's tacky and stupid and we try to avoid people falling for it by the fact we've made it against the rules to give any information that is personally identifying.

a reply to: Springer

so a member cannot decide for himself? that's somehow contradictionary to some official accounts here, like George Knapp's.

someone can use a username that he used somewhere else and that can be tracked down, someone may post something that was posted somewhere else (a piece of code, for example), that can be tracked down - you cannot possibly trace all that. so while i agree that bashing posting personal information directly is a good thing, posting any proof that can be somehow tracked down to the real identity of a poster is still possible.

bottom line is, everyone's responsible for his own safety and no matter how hard you try to protect them, you can't.

also, i'm against asking for a proof of identity, unless someone is going full Lazar and decides to be a whistleblower of some sort. there's still asking for a proof of any other claim though, and such proof can sometimes lead to an identity disclosure. one way or another, it should be the poster's call.

Nothing Personal

a reply to: jedi_hamster

While matters of privacy are for each of us to decide for ourselves, posts containing personal identifying information (real names, street addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, etc.) pose several problems on a public venue such as ATS.

As an example, without independent verification, we cannot know if such information is actually that of the member posting it. It could be someone else, and its use may be malicious, as in doxing or other forms of online harassment.

Even if it is, in fact, related to the identity of the member who posted it, such information can be used for a wide range of undesirable and potentially criminal purposes, none of which we wish to facilitate.

As you've pointed out, it is quite possible to determine the real identity of a member (or anyone on the Internet) if sufficient information has been divulged. Although it is true we can't stop it, we don't want to support it, either.

For these and several other reasons, the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use prohibit the solicitation or posting of personal information on ATS.

There are exceptions, such as when special guests or notable persons may, with approval, post contact information. If someone bases claims on their identity (i.e., "I'm an insider", "I was there", etc.), it is neither wrong nor prohibited for members to challenge such claims by asking for proof.

But absent prior arrangements and verification with the owners, we remove personal information when it is reported or discovered and discourage members from posting it.

a reply to: Majic

thanks for the explanation, makes sense.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
And don't forget that the FBI and CIA will try and seek out any information from individuals on this site since it's a conspiracy site.

But yeah don't trust anyone. I've come to know a few members here but it was a long process and trust. I used to talk to a lot of ATS members in ATS chat and it was fun. If you want to share an email address just create another email address and keep information to a minimum.

You really think your worth the effort