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The WWII-Era Plane Giving the F-35 a Run for Its Money

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posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: kaskad
A-29 was not around in ww2.
However, it's a pretty good platform for COIN operations, due to it's ability to fly low and slow, and also being able to be on station for long periods of time. Operational cost is relatively cheap, or so google tells me.
Colombia has been using them for some years, with a high rate of success.
I don't think it can replace A10, since they have slightly different missions, but when it comes down Low Intensity COIN operations, in my opinion it's a winner.

AT-6B Texan II is an alternative to A-29 with some pros and cons, biggest pro being it's Country of origin, which is the US of A, and cheaper cost.
here is some info on both:
rhk111smilitaryandarmspage.wordpress.com...


The Texan WAS around in WW2..




posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: clay2 baraka

Yes and no. This isn't your grandfather's Texan. It shares the same designation, but that's about it. This Texan is based on the Pilatus PC-9 turboprop.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

And the AF is about to announce a new Long Range Bomber....

www.military.com...


The new LRS-B is slated to replace the Air Force’s bomber fleet to include the B-2 stealth bombers.

Although much of the details of the LRS-B development are not publically available, Air Force leaders have said the aircraft will likely be engineered to fly unmanned missions as well as manned missions.

The new aircraft will be designed to have global reach, in part by incorporating a large arsenal of long-range weapons. The LRS-B is being engineered to carry existing weapons as well as nuclear bombs and emerging and future weapons, Air Force officials explained.
In particular, the aircraft is being engineered to evade increasingly sophisticated air defenses which now use faster processors and sensors to track even stealthy aircraft at longer ranges."

Northrop Grumman ran a regional super Bowl ad this year - I wonder where it ran....

ETA: They just finished building a new 400,000 sq foot facility near St Augustine Florida





edit on 18-9-2015 by LeslieD because: addition



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: grey580
Hey interesting thread topic. I read the article then I read the rolling stone interview with ex-general Stanley McChrystal.

So what do I conclude. Well bureaucracy is a real thing. I think the intent in administrations is to make good top-level decisions. If every decision at the bottom was treated as gold a lot of money is fruitlessly spent. The problem is much is being learned at the bottom which requires time to filter to the top. By the time it gets to the top it sometimes is too late. And sometimes unnecessary squabbling clogs the uptake.

And sometimes the administrative system is corrupt or otherwise blinded to truths, the same way a person can be blinded or corrupt. So what's needed then? Maybe an infusion of new brains, fresh set of eyes. Companies are well familiar with this, so are governments. They flush the system, not always regularly. Sometimes they fail to flush aptly.

Ever been on a problem for hours and not been able to figure it? Then walk away and return later and the answer stares you in the face? I think in some way this is relevant, except it's on greater time scales.

Maybe I could call of it it "chain of command".
edit on 9/18/2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: clay2 baraka
I said A-29 Super Tucano, not Texan 2
`````````````

One of the posters brought up that COIN/CAS should go to the Army.
A dude in an F16 30k ft up does me no good when I'm calling in a gun run.
It has been done in F16 and 15, but that is besides the point, since their ceiling is restricted in country.
Apaches are slow and won't hang around much if there is heavy SAF.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa
Wonder how much it would take to make brand spanking new skyraiders lol!! No no i got one better a Stuka lol!!


You could make a new Skyraider airframe but they haven't made the R-3350 engine for more than 50 years. I flew Search and Rescue and Close Air Support missions in the Skyraider for 18 months until they made us transition to the F-4. I wanted my A-1 back. 14 hard points, a loooong loiter capability, and you could shoot the hell out of it and it would still fly. My SPAD could carry more ordinance than a B-17. And if the Industrial Revolution had a sound, it would be that 18 cylinder radial starting before dawn. The F-4s we got didn't even have a freaking gun. The later ones finally did, once they found out that the Sidewinders and Sparrows were useless unless you wanted to shoot down the sun from straight and level flight. Maybe they could stick a derated Allison T-56 from a C-130 on the nose to replace the Wright. The PT-6 used on the Tucano is too low powered.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

exactly, the U.S. should have learned a lesson from WW2, yeah, the germans had bigger and better everything but they lost because they didn`t have enough of them.
The allies won because they had overwhelming numbers of smaller and crappier.
a Sherman tank was no match for a tiger tank but 15 shermans? or 20 shermans? that equals a dead tiger.
you can mass produce smaller and crappier indefinately at a fraction of the cost,and much faster.

an ant is no match for an elephant but enough ants can eat an entire elephant.


edit on 18-9-2015 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2015 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 10:13 PM
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a reply to: kaskad

Seems the Airforce does not like the A10 either because it's not go fast or takes money from go fast programs.

I say give them over to Army aviation for COIN/CAS role as well as armor killing role it was intended for. Probably be perfect compliment to Apaches.

The Army knows well how to accomplish these roles.

Free up Airforce to do air superiority which it does best.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Barnalby

They haven't said much beyond replacing those parts on specific aircraft. This is in addition to a significant radar upgrade, and possibly going with the latest Boeing upgrade that activates the 1 and 9 stations and new rails on the inboard stations to double the missile load to 16.


Woudnt it be cheape r to just roll out the black widow 2?



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 04:26 AM
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Yeah....Bring Back the Hawker Sea Fury!! And while you're at it the McD Phantom....

Nice Sea fury clip from Germany, In Australian Navy livery of all things (1950s)

www.youtube.com...



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 06:56 AM
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originally posted by: Barnalby
I'm honestly surprised at this point that someone hasn't decided to pull a blackwater and build their own low-cost COIN platform in order to provide services to smaller countries, contractors, etc.


You mean like Draken International?

They are based near Orlando, Florida, owned by 32 year old business mogul Jared Isaacman (founder of UBC/Harbortouch), and have a fleet of 28 L-159Es, 11 A-4Ks, 9 MB-339CBs, 27 MiG-21s, 5 L-39s, and a couple support planes (Citation 650 and Beechcraft Baron). They are equipped for Air-Air, Air-Ground, Aerial Refueling (Buddy system on the A-4s), and plenty more.


originally posted by: Tardacus
The allies won because they had overwhelming numbers of smaller and crappier.


"Quantity has a quality all its own." - Joseph Stalin (allegedly, but probably not really)



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: snypwsd

in a vs situation no.

but the article was pointing out in COIN operations it could be a better option.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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I always liked the piper enforcer myself

medium.com...



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: kaskad

Seems the Airforce does not like the A10 either because it's not go fast or takes money from go fast programs.

I say give them over to Army aviation for COIN/CAS role as well as armor killing role it was intended for. Probably be perfect compliment to Apaches.

The Army knows well how to accomplish these roles.

Free up Airforce to do air superiority which it does best.


I read an article a while ago. The Army brought up an idea that they should just get A10's from USAF (since they obviously don't want them) and start their own CAS program. That idea got a no-go. What a shame.



posted on Sep, 23 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: gort51
Yeah....Bring Back the Hawker Sea Fury!! And while you're at it the McD Phantom....

Nice Sea fury clip from Germany, In Australian Navy livery of all things (1950s)

www.youtube.com...


You have obviously never had to fly a CAS mission in a Phantom. Below 400 knots it won't turn. It just kind of skids sideways putting out a huge plume of black smoke that screams "Here I am!! Shoot me!!! The Phantom was built as a high altitude supersonic interceptor to go after Soviet Badgers and Bears. Then the micro-managing idiots in Washington decided to turn it into a 79,000 pound gas-guzzling compromise. Since the majority of these missions were flown from Thailand (Udorn, Ubon, NKP, etc), by the time you got to the target area, you were on fumes. "One pass, then go get gas." And if you are a good guy hunkered down 50 meters from a battalion of bad guys, do you want your help dropping napalm on the baddies at 4450 knots (760 feet per second) or 200 knots (335 fps) in an aircraft that, if he missed, he could stick around for another pass or 2. I loved the F-4 - at 25,000 feet or going straight up but when it was time to dodge coconuts protecting ground-pounders or downed aviators (most of whom seemed to be poor Navy A-4 drivers) I didn't have much to say about the pig. So be careful what you wish for. You might actually have to fly one some day.



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