People who are against abortion

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
a reply to: queenofswords

You do realize that abortions have been performed since the beginning of time, or at least from the time they figured out how to end an unwanted pregnancy. This is not a modern medical discovery. In fact, it why some women were considered witches in the middle ages.

Of course I know that some women have aborted their progeny in the womb in times past. We were talking about modern medical techniques that allow one to observe their fetus' growth, to put their eyes on this new emerging life.

I have always said that the type of women that would abort would do it whether legal or not, so I do not advocate making it illegal, not wishing to see back alley and black market abortions. But, society is changing and many that use to be so cavalier about it are re-thinking the moral and ethical character of a government that sanctions such an act.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
a reply to: queenofswords

You do realize that abortions have been performed since the beginning of time, or at least from the time they figured out how to end an unwanted pregnancy. This is not a modern medical discovery. In fact, it why some women were considered witches in the middle ages.

Of course I know that some women have aborted their progeny in the womb in times past. We were talking about modern medical techniques that allow one to observe their fetus' growth, to put their eyes on this new emerging life.

I have always said that the type of women that would abort would do it whether legal or not, so I do not advocate making it illegal, not wishing to see back alley and black market abortions. But, society is changing and many that use to be so cavalier about it are re-thinking the moral and ethical character of a government that sanctions such an act.

I am honestly not sure anyone is cavalier about it. I have been married three times, wife number 2 had an abortion at 17, and went on to have 4 children as an adult. Wife number three gave birth to her first child at 16, and second at 18. They both have felt that they made the correct choice for themselves at the time, and I would like to see that choice remain safe and available for all women.

Logic would state a fetus is a life. If you would draw an imaginary timeline under everyone's name showing the time they began to the time they died, "the began part" couldn't possibly be starting from birth, becuse before birth the baby was growing, beating, moving, and thinking.. If you decide to end the life/timeline (abort) before birth you still killed that life's contribution to the world, and it's life has value. No human get's to decide when a human becomes a living human and when it doesn't. As far as I'm concerned if there is anything growing there it's a life that's being taken.

a reply to: queenofswords

We were talking about modern medical techniques that allow one to observe their fetus' growth, to put their eyes on this new emerging life.

Most women who get an abortion already have children. The idea that a woman doesn't know what's growing inside her is insulting. It's insulting to think that forcing a woman to have a vaginal ultrasound, because her embryo is too small to be seen in a sonogram, will guilt a woman into changing her mind is ludicrous.

a reply to: lucifershiningone

If a woman has a right to do what she wants because it is her body, then why in the hell do I see women being arrested for having sex for money and I don't see a damn peep out of the pro choice group raising hell about that?

Hypocrisy?

a reply to: seeker1963

Notice that your woman is being arrested for taking money, NOT for having sex. Money belongs to the government. They regulate how it's passed around and exchanged. Mess with their money, and feel their wrath.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: seeker1963

Notice that your woman is being arrested for taking money, NOT for having sex. Money belongs to the government. They regulate how it's passed around and exchanged. Mess with their money, and feel their wrath.

Why no outrage though? I don't see anyone screaming for the rights of those women who choose to make money by selling sex? How many women are put in jail on a daily basis just because they got caught taking cash for the use of their body?

You can't have it both ways. Either women have a right to do what they want because it's their body or they don't!

This political bull# has gotten ridiculous! Freedom to do what you want with your body should not be categorized due to anyone's belief as to what is right versus wrong. When I see those who support abortion because it is a woman's right become as vocal to support a woman who chooses to have sex for money, I just might take their cause seriously! Right now? All I see is idiots who pick and choose..........

a reply to: seeker1963

Fiorina Connects Iran and Planned Parenthood
patriotpost.us...

idiots who pick and chose. beating the wardrums regarding Iraq, while beating planned parenthood for protecting women's health. since well fetus' are sacred, at least till they are born in a country you don't like, they well, it's okay to bomb the crap out of them!!!

a reply to: seeker1963

Why no outrage though? I don't see anyone screaming for the rights of those women who choose to make money by selling sex? How many women are put in jail on a daily basis just because they got caught taking cash for the use of their body?

Oh there's outrage! Look at what happened to Eric Garner, who was killed by "the government" for selling loose cigarettes. I know that you want to link abortion with whores, and that is outrageous in and of itself, but your analogy doesn't work.

I am against abortion after the first trimester, due to the fact that I believe the development at that stage is great enough for the baby to feel pain and fear. I also believe that consciousness most likely exists at that stage as well.

I believe that no child should ever go without and whether it was carelessness on the parents part, birth control failure, unlucky circumstances, or due to the parents lack of education that resulted in a child being born to parents who can't financially support the child on their own, the child should never have to suffer for it.

The only way to break the cycle for those kids is to make sure they get the emotional, health, educational, and financial support to ensure they have the same opportunities as a child born to a middle class family.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Yes, convenience.

Almost universally, those women put themselves in that position by making the choices that led to it.

Or do you also think that pregnancy is something that just randomly happens with no rhyme nor reason to it? Babies come under a cabbage leaf perhaps?

a reply to: ketsuko

hmm... many of those women were married, so their husbands also made choices in it....sometimes matter of fact, they kind of took the choice away from the women..

What I find interesting about the abortion debate is this:

People argue over what constitutes a human being and at what point a human being comes into existence.

Those who are vehemently anti-Abortion tend to argue that abortion is immoral because you are denying the being the right to be born into existence (the right to life).

For those who agree with the above argument, I ask you this: when did this being choose to come into existence? Parents just assume that because they wanted a child that the child wanted to come into existence as their offspring.

Don't talk to me about denying somebody the right to life when you condone forcing life onto a being that might not want to be brought into this world.

Life isn't voluntary after all.

originally posted by: lucifershiningone
For me, I have no issue with my tax dollars going towards helping this child out.

I appreciate your well-meaning sentiment, but it's more likely that your tax dollars will line the pockets of government leaders and force the child into a generational cycle of poverty and dependence on social welfare.

'Helping' the child would mean they would be cared for and prepared to compete at their best in a free market economy so that they can raise their own children in the future.

The system is corrupt and broken.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
What I find interesting about the abortion debate is this:

People argue over what constitutes a human being and at what point a human being comes into existence.

Those who are vehemently anti-Abortion tend to argue that abortion is immoral because you are denying the being the right to be born into existence (the right to life).

For those who agree with the above argument, I ask you this: when did this being choose to come into existence? Parents just assume that because they wanted a child that the child wanted to come into existence as their offspring.

Don't talk to me about denying somebody the right to life when you condone forcing life onto a being that might not want to be brought into this world.

Life isn't voluntary after all.

The only way someone can come to your conclusion is by completely removing any social responsibility to human life. If someone is mentally ill and unable to make their own decisions the hospital is required to put health and the patients life first. If an elderly person is too mentally ill to make decisions does the staff caring for them simply pull the plug? NO They are required to care for life and protect life. This should be no different. You cannot ask the fetus if it wants life so by default you MUST protect life as a morally and socially responsible population. To have it your way is to deny anyone healthcare in a hospital that can't afford it, I mean you said life isn't voluntary. I don't understand how you can reach such a conclusion.

a reply to: seeker1963

This political bull# has gotten ridiculous! Freedom to do what you want with your body should not be categorized due to anyone's belief as to what is right versus wrong. When I see those who support abortion because it is a woman's right become as vocal to support a woman who chooses to have sex for money, I just might take their cause seriously! Right now? All I see is idiots who pick and choose..........

Yep!

Can't tell a woman she can't have an abortion, but by god we better pay for their birth control!

Not the only who doesn't take the pro choice crowed seriously.