When Did You Become Human

a reply to: deadeyedick

well of coarse I blow some of this out of proportion to prove a point but really speach that leeds to murder or violence is not free speech

unless of course that speech is coming from the pro-life crowd, right?

if a clerk has someone come into his store to rob him pulls out a gun and shoots him, to protect his life or merchandise, do you also consider that murder?
what about when a country decides to bomb cities into oblivion because of the threat of mythological wmd's? is that murder?

a reply to: TechniXcality

if carrying a fetus to term means a women will lose her eyesight,
just how can you resolve that issue treating them equally? either the women will have to sacrifice her sight for the sake of the child, or the child will have to vacant the premises. in the actual case that I am speaking of, the women already had little ones that she was the sole caretaker for, so now you have to ask yourself, if that one fetus' rights trumps those of not only the mother, but also the children, since they will also be harmed by her lack of sight.

the key word that I am using is sacrifice....I believe that giving birth to another human being is a sacrifice a women makes. it's not an obligation, and it shouldn't be forced upon a women.
this thread started with the idea that rape wouldn't be justification, or at least that is what I got out of it. well, what if that rape is to a minor child too young to handle childbirth, or a women who knows that there's a good chance that she wouldn't survive a pregnancy? who are you or me, or any politician to demand a women make such a sacrifice on the hope that some miracle will occur?

as far as the big bang? what if it required the loss of lifeforms to create lifeforms, would those pre-existing lifeforms have the right to work to prevent the occurance from happening? would we if we were faced with such disaster?

a reply to: dawnstar
yes we are all guilty

a reply to: dawnstar
There is a small percentages of cases where I would do what had to be done but we as a society are far from only killing that small percentage because too many do not take the issue seriously enough and they progress the rates to a level that is clear to be anyone who feels like everything else in their life is more important than their son or daughter they carry in their womb. then they fall back on some lame thought that if their child were dead then they would become the type of person they dream to be but in reality they always fall short of their dreams because of other reasons like the world is in a really sad state because of the loss of our morality and degradation of our species.

a reply to: deadeyedick

so, how would you legislate just what is a valid reason what isn't?
who should decide? doctor's, the mother, the father, a bunch of polywogs holding office and making their decisions based on who can pay the highest money or what will gather up enough votes for them? and, how long will it take from the time for a women to decide she should have an abortion to the time that she gets the okay to get one?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
yea that is not a hard feat with me
point was that imo dr. are all full of it
therapist = the rapist

Good luck the next time you suffer a serious infection.

a reply to: dawnstar

I believe atheism/agnosticism argues against abortion,or atheism/agnosticism in the truest sense.that which has potential has value, and that is where meaning is derived from.

I believe that much of modern day science and religions argues for nihilism,wether that be thinly vield or overt. Your first response defining obligation and sacrifice is a game of semantic, does a bear # in the woods?

You must understand that the Big Bang had meaning because the potential it created to bare your consciousness though you were not conscious then, the merit of your beliefs are indisputable because of a non conscious arbitrary potential.

Thwarting potential, has consequences as well, but we are really talking about determinism or free will, this argument could go on and on but I will choose free will, and that begins at the point at which it potentially could begin.

Does consciousness come before potential? If you say yes then God must exist, life has a purpose that is defined by potential which therefor makes it objectively equal.

Something must be actionable for it to take action which describes the process of realized potentials, consciousness does not supersede this order, though it can take action to do so, but it is wrong in the most objective sense man can realize.

Free will says, things are right or wrong or have meaning,determinism says everything is just what it is,and things have happened because it just happens. The later says a preordained guiding will or inevitability, the former says potential has value.

Keep in mind that a human without a beating heart isn't alive.

Instead of judgment/condemnation, why not just give compassion?

Luke 6:37-38 King James Version (KJV)

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Luke 6:35-36King James Version (KJV)

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

If a woman had an abortion, it's because she felt that she had a good reason. Condemning the women who have abortions, is not the same as having compassion for the undeveloped baby who didn't get a chance to live a full life. One is anger, the other is love. One is merciful, the other is not.

a reply to: dawnstar

If you wish to argue equality,you must argue free will. Free will has meaning because of its potentials, life begins at the point it has potential therefor it is equal.

That's the math.

a reply to: Hyperia

Youre always calling people apes and monkeys..........

Are you from the Middle East?

When I was over there in the military, the militant Muslims had the same habit of referring to people they didnt agree with, and "infidels" as monkeys or apes.......

a reply to: TechniXcality

so, if we happened to learn that black holes were in essence giant recyling centers breaking down a universe and spitting the mass and energy out the other side (the big bang in other words) and learned to somehow kill them before they ate the universe, we shouldn't try to, since well, that would be destroying the potential of what could be??? we should just let it eat our solar system?

I'm sorry, but I read through you posts from the beginning trying to understand what exactly you are trying to say....
and well, that is what I am getting.....
I am not saying the a fetus doesn't have value, but gee, ya know what, so didn't all those kids that had bombs dropped on them in Iraq, so didn't their parents, and their grandparents. their value didn't stop many of those who are griping about abortion now from hearing about the danger that was posed by Iraq supporting it beyond belief, nor did it stop our politician from literally making up some of that danger to get that support. if live has equal value since the beginning of time, regardless of when it actually finds that life, which I think is what you are saying, then why is it that men can be justified so easily when it comes to carpet bombing entire cities and villages into oblivion when they feel threatened, but a women is supposed to be so different, not equal at all, and not justified into taking action when the fetus she is carrying is threatening her life, her family, her way of life?

in other words, don't expect more from the women than the men are willing to give!

a reply to: TechniXcality

If you wish to argue equality,you must argue free will. Free will has meaning because of its potentials, life begins at the point it has potential therefor it is equal.

That's the math.

That makes no sense. An acorn has the potential to be an Oak Tree, or it has the potential to be squirrel food. All life isn't equal.

a reply to: windword
once an acorn is germinated then what is it???

When a mommy and a daddy love each other very much...

They get wasted and forget the condom, and that's how you become a human.

I don't know enough about it to say when I think I became a human and not a clump of cells.

Murder is worse than rape. Rape is still terrible.

I don't know enough about it to say with certainty when I think an abortion is wrong. I've always had a bit of trouble with people who think all abortion is wrong, unless it's because of rape. If we're talking about murdering someone, it shouldn't matter how they were conceived. I also get the arguments for it, and I'm more talking about people that are 100% opposed to abortion and think it's murder unless the woman was raped, which seems a little off if the argument is indeed about killing a person.

a reply to: deadeyedick




^^Pollinated Oak flowers.

] once an acorn is germinated then what is it???

A sprouting acorn? Acorns are produced because the tree was already pollinated. Still has the potential to be an Oak Tree or squirrel food.

The point is, all life isn't equal.

originally posted by: aethertek
If you're female please discuss, if male your opinion doesn't matter.

K~

a reply to: aethertek

Males can be raped also. It's just not reported as often due to social stigmas. Males are raped by other males as well as raped by females. Sames as females are raped by males and/or females.

My two sense regarding the op: I'm going with rape being the worse of the two mentioned offenses. Murder can have many reasons behind it. Rape is hate. Pure inexcusable hate.

a reply to: NeedUserID

Oh for the love of..Hello...anybody in there? nod if you can hear me....

The primary reasoning for the OP is abortion rights, rape is merely the clumsy excuse of an argument that he used.

K~

a reply to: aethertek

I will be sure and holla at you the next time I forget what I am doing since you know my motives.

The reason for the op is simple just like me.

I had the thought that if one can use the threat of death to cause the other then that is enough evidence to deem murder worse than rape.

As far as abortion I feel it is happening about 80% too often and the remedy for such life threatening pregnancies is becoming a fad and not a tool to be used in a very low number of cases.

This has resulted in straight up murder of children in the womb.

The sad truth is that if you or I were 7 months preggers today we could go out and find a business willing to murder our child inside us no questions asked.

The pressure put on the system by groups for abortion have long since reached their original goals and now have become something very ugly.

a reply to: windword

The point is, all life isn't equal

Sounds like a good argument to put women back in the kitchen and darker skinned folks to private sections of busses.

I suppose that it is ok to sink to the level of thought you just did if it can temporarily benefit your point.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: deadeyedick
yea that is not a hard feat with me
point was that imo dr. are all full of it
therapist = the rapist

Good luck the next time you suffer a serious infection.

So you agree that Obamacare sucks and one would need luck to get treatment.

I get the original point you made.