When Did You Become Human

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: deadeyedick
if you choose to admit the death of a child by way of abortion then that is on you and not me

I've never had an abortion, nor would I, if a rape left me pregnant.

The difference between you and I is that I believe in freedom and personal responsibility.

No that is not the difference

I believe in those things also

my point is quite simple and that is that killing makes people dead regardless of their current residence

originally posted by: deadeyedick
...we should be human enough to admit that it is killing and there is a point in the womb where that zygote is a living breathing human the same as you or I

I've never known of ANYONE to claim that abortion doesn't stop the life (kill). And a zygote isn't a living breathing human.

I should not have the right to decide anything for woman but they should know that it is a real person in their kicking around and ending that life is takeing a life

They know that. They don't need you to tell them that.

a reply to: deadeyedick

All I am pushing for is women to understand that when they kill a human then that is murder

Its also murder to bring a child into this world and walk away.


What prolifers do is try to over simplify the issue and chose to not see the consequences and the aftermath that can often be worse than being aborted in the early stages of life.

For you its a win - win decision because you have no consequences to suffer and you blindly overlook all the problems we already have with children in the world that we can't take care off.

IMO I think it can be looked as rude to be so vocal and one sided to judge others when you have no stakes in the game nor have to deal with the consequences.

a reply to: aethertek

So the males make a meager contribution to the conception of the child and have no right to say anything about the decision the woman makes, BUT if she does choose to keep the child then his meager contribution suddenly becomes much less meager and now he's suddenly got some responsibility to the child?

So was his contribution meager or not?

When did you became human?

When I came in this world with much love and felt wanted. When both the woman and male made an act of love... and made me happen. And feeling happy around them... feeling blessed and will try anything to make them as happy the way they felt when I came in existence.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: deadeyedick
...we should be human enough to admit that it is killing and there is a point in the womb where that zygote is a living breathing human the same as you or I

I've never known of ANYONE to claim that abortion doesn't stop the life (kill). And a zygote isn't a living breathing human.

I should not have the right to decide anything for woman but they should know that it is a real person in their kicking around and ending that life is takeing a life

They know that. They don't need you to tell them that.

Then how come if I punch a "zygote" I would be charged with murder of a human?

Do "zygotes"kick

also I feel that anyone who calls a human a zygote should be charged with aiding and abetting criminal act of murder

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: deadeyedick

All I am pushing for is women to understand that when they kill a human then that is murder

No what prolifers do is try to over simplify the issue and chose to not see the consequences and the aftermath that can often be worse than being aborted in the early stages of life.

For you its a win - win decision because you have no consequences to suffer and you blindly overlook all the problems we already have with children in the world that we can't take care off.

Its just rude to be so vocal and one sided to judge others when you have no stakes in the game nor have to deal with the consequences.

for me it is simple when I speak to a baby in the womb and I get a response by way of movement then I know then I am interacting with a human that many want to label zygote and kill it because they have better crap to do like buy new clothes...

if society wants to legalize murder then women will have the right at that point to kill but as it is they should be criminally charged when they kill a human just like everyone else who is a killer

a reply to: deadeyedick

Still there shouldn't be a government rule in my eyes for this.

Look at many governments today, do they work for the best interest of you or me / humans/ life on this world?
The nr 1 is; economics... for governments today. This has become ''our god''...
We destroy much life as humans all around us while this is and shouldn't not be in our interest at all! Even worse, if it goes on like this.. it's not sure if also we humans can survive our actions on this planet for a long time.

a reply to: deadeyedick

You are still not addressing the consequences .

What are you doing to help these parents and unwanted children after you convince them to give birth?

a reply to: interupt42


Unless they are low income, why would they need help?
If they are low income, they go on the program's that already exist.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: deadeyedick

You are still not addressing the consequences .

What are you doing to help these parents and unwanted children after you convince them to give birth?

I allow them to live by not killing them which is more than many can say

point me to the unfortunate you speak of that needs my help in order to find the perspective of contentment

I am not going around trying to convince them that their lives should be a certain way and if they fail to find that way then they have failed in life and they should feel bad because they do not have this or that

a reply to: Bluntone22

Unless they are low income, why would they need help? If they are low income, they go on the program's that already exist.

Because those program aren't working and you would not want to place your child in those programs.

We have seen first hand how they work and it is not a good thing. Plus the system can't even keep up with the current demand let alone forcing everyone to give birth.

Prolifers need to fix the system first then concentrate on their mission to convince everyone to not abort. What they are doing is equally irresponsible as aborting but with less association.

a reply to: deadeyedick

point me to the unfortunate you speak of that needs my help in order to find the perspective of contentment

Just go to any abortion clinic and talk to the parents and tell them that you are willing to take all responsibility for that child if they chose to not give birth regardless if the child has any mental or physical issues.

a reply to: deadeyedick

At what point did you become a human?

What does that mean, become a human? Do you mean human being, or just human? An human woman has human eggs, and an human man has human sperm. At no point is the human reproductive process non-human.

But, if you mean, when does a fertilized egg become a person, it's when it's born.

a reply to: windword

There's that magic vagina line again.
So being a life is based on real estate.
Location, location, location

a reply to: Bennyzilla

So the males make a meager contribution to the conception of the child and have no right to say anything about the decision the woman makes

Wouldn't that entirely contingent upon the relationship that exists between the man and the woman? For example, if it was just a one night stand or fling that led to the unwanted pregnancy, I wouldn't expect the woman to look up the guy and ask him what she should do.

But certainly, a married couple would discuss the issue, and hopefully come to a decision together. But, if they can't, do you think a husband should have the final say, and the right to force his wife to abort or to carry an unwanted pregnancy?

Most psychologist indicate that a child doesn't really become self-aware until they are around three or four years old. I think this kind of self-awareness is necessary for a person to truly be considered a human being, separate from a human animal running primarily on instinct.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: windword

There's that magic vagina line again.
So being a life is based on real estate.
Location, location, location

Life isn't part of the question. The woman's egg was alive when it met Mr Alive Sperm. Personage is the issue. Personage begins upon birth.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: deadeyedick

point me to the unfortunate you speak of that needs my help in order to find the perspective of contentment

Just go to any abortion clinic and talk to the parents and tell them that you are willing to take all responsibility for that child if they chose to not give birth regardless if the child has any mental or physical issues.

define responsibility

originally posted by: aethertek
If you're female please discuss, if male your opinion doesn't matter.

In what other realm of American society do we accept this asinine concept?

Only property owners may vote on property tax increasing bond issues?
Only men are allowed to discuss child support and father's rights issues?
Only tax payers' opinion matter when taxes are discussed? (Hey, I'll straight up trade you on this one! Please, I'll agree to never say another word about abortion if we can restrict non-net tax payers from being allowed to have any opinion on the taxes of those of us actually paying them.)
Only current and former servicemen's opinions matter in regards to defense spending and waging wars.
etc
etc
etc

It's an asinine stance to take.