If matter/body is bad (false/against spirit), then so is helping humanity and feeding the hungry

Generosity to help the poor and hungry would be bad/illusion since that is physical. Maybe by "body vs spirit", I was seeing things the wrong way. Matter is just dense energy, so in reality there is only energy.

If all is energy then there is nothing wrong with loving things and people.


Most of the universal ethics such as "don't kill" and "don't steal", is a part of the way we interaction in the physical. Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical.

a reply to: arpgme This could have been part of the thread you posted a few minutes ago, friend.
I'm having trouble following though, could you try again?
Maybe someone else can understand you and explain things for me.

a reply to: arpgme

It's more about motive than about the action being carried out.

If you're feeding the hungry so you get noticed and then can write a book and sell your story, than of course you're just as bad as the guys hording food aid from the UN to sell.

If you look around, there is somethings every single human being is able to do, regardless of their economic standing. That is to react to various situations of the heart. We're all tested on so many levels, whether or not you see it as a test is besides the point, it's always been about you defining who you are via your actions, actions based on your thoughts.

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

This is about the people who believe in "body vs spirit" and that the body/physical is bad while spirit is good. Generosity, being kind to others, feeding the hungry are still a part of "the body" (helping them survive and be nurtured).

This thread is asking a question sort of like this:

"If the body/matter is bad and the spirit good, then why does ethics concern how the human body is being treated?"

To me, this raises the idea that maybe it is not "body vs spirit" but both are connected.

In this way, it also makes, "Heaven and Earth being one" and "The Kingdom of God is within" makes sense.

a reply to: arpgme


To chime in, perhaps because individuals have the liberty to think freely for themselves as they choose, while one's conduct directly effects those in their sphere of influence.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

True, but I think you've missed the point.

If the body/matter is evil and against spirit, then anything that comes from the body... physical focus, influence, interaction, would be evil.

But since intention/influence is important, it shows that maybe there is a unity between the two and not a complete battle between the two.

I don't see how the body can be related to matter in a general sense since the body harbors the soul and matter ( for example a cup ) only holds liquid or M&Ms at best.

Your body is basically a temple for your soul, take care of it and in turn you've helped take that much care of your soul.

You can argue that harming the body is harming the soul, since it causes pain and suffering these are both forms of stress and stress has be medically proven to cause diseases / illnesses.

You can also argue that without the body, they soul cannot experience life and therefor cannot fulfill any mission we're here to achieve.

Short story - Body is separate from the soul but both are mutually exclusive if one is to live a life on earth.

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

That makes sense. Unfortunately, people misunderstand this and they become anti-matterial (even for other's physical needs) and call it "illusion" or "temporary" while living in a mental state of escapism.

I think it's important to be in the world (social), but not of the world (only living for selfish greed instead of Gratitude and Love).


Even deeper, think about this: if matter does not exist, if it is only a slower/dense form of energy, then in reality there is only Spirit and even the physical is a part of it; just like ice is only a dense form of water but it is still "water" (H2O). A piece of ice in water may seem like it is something else, separate, but in reality it is One with the water and is the water (H2O).

a reply to: arpgme

Yes you're right, basically I believe ( and I guess you could call it a religion ) in a interconnectedness of all things.

There seems to be a connection to all that is to you, me and everyone else.

It's never been a matter of what we are but who we become, so choose wisely.

a reply to: arpgme

Soooo... The most ethical thing is to just skip to the end and start killing people so that they can transcend the physical. I mean really; that's the inevitable conclusion.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

True, but I think you've missed the point.

If the body/matter is evil and against spirit, then anything that comes from the body... physical focus, influence, interaction, would be evil.

But since intention/influence is important, it shows that maybe there is a unity between the two and not a complete battle between the two.

ok its not that the body is evil. remember the key is balance.

the body has desires and needs. but the spirit also has needs. the problem is if you only satisfy the needs and desires of the body whilst ignoring those of the spirit, you run the risk of corrupting your soul further and further in sin. doing unknowing harm to others in your sinful path. the idea is for YOU not to be selfish. why? how does this work out?

well its simple. the needs of the body are all material. but if u are only satisfying the body you could become a selfish beast of a businessman. chopping heads and stomping toes on your way to the top. or, you can satisfy your spiritual needs. which is to inject balance into the world. satisfying others. creating positivity for someone else other than yourself.

reason being that to spirit. all of us including the animals and trees are its children. brothers and sisters all. and we in our free will need to serve the spirit by facilitating balance in our daily lives. where we are the spiritual entities present and interacting. nature and the universe already does its job. gravity doesnt take any hoiiday. its the free will part that means we have to contribute and do it ourselves. obeying that spirit of life within us to promote balance and equality throughout the world.

it doesnt mirror over like ur thinking it does. the reflection is actually in creating that balance between selfishnesses and selflessness. unselfishness.

God said to share


to provide an example.
if u and a child got trapped in a cave. and there was only one more snickers bar. if u were to satisfy the body. ud eat it for urself. but if u were to satisfy the needs of the spirit. you'd share it with him so he can have an equal chance at survival too. its not survival of the fittest. he cant beat u up and take it from u. yet he gets to eat. spirit is different like that. some people may decide to say theyre not hungry and give the kid the entire bar so he can have a strong shot at surviving till help comes. total selflessness. these acts are said to gain the eyes and ears of the Gods.

a reply to: redhorse

If the body is evil and is against the spirit, then it is evil to care for people's physical needs. That is the inevitable conclusion, but the conclusion is unethical and therefore I disagree with the premise that "the body is evil and against spirit". If this premise is supposed to be ethical, then it would inspire an ethical conclusion (leading to ethical behavior).

Universal ethics such as "don't kill" and "don't steal" as well as The Golden Rule (to do unto others as you would have them do to you) are based on Empathy/Compassion/Love.

The premise that "The Kingdom of Heaven is within" and "may The Kingdom come on Earth as in Heaven" are views which inspires people to ethical behavior to work for the greater good by caring for each other with compassion. The premise that "the body is evil and against spirit" does not inspire ethical behavior but indifference to human suffering.

The spirit needs a body to continue its existence here and learn its lessons in the physical realm...You could argue that to nourish the body has a secondary effect of nourishing the soul....ever hear of Soul Food? You could also argue that any physical action is first produced non physically by the conscious mind which in my opinion is not entirely physical or physical at all....This is very similar to a gun debate....do not judge the tool ( the body) judge the controller ( the spirit)

Generosity is not a physical action....its a mental construct....The " act" of giving is , they are separate but it seems your perception does not see things this way. " Don't Kill or Steal " are moral ideals for some and are different then the actual acts.

" Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical."

You're just making connections here that do not exist. Literally none of this is correct from any point of view.

a reply to: arpgme

a reply to: wyrmboy12

" Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical."

You're just making connections here that do not exist. Literally none of this is correct from any point of view.

I will explain what I mean.

Human body = matter.
If matter = evil,
Then human body = evil
To support evil = evil

Therefore to help others physical needs (such as feeding the hungry) through generosity/charity would be evil, but this would only be true if "human body = matter and matter = evil" is true, which I disagree with.

I believe that The Kingdom of God is within and therefore, the body and spirit are connected and compassion is important for the human body, too.

To see spirit and body as separate and say "body = evil, spirit = good" would lead to the conclusion that compassion for the physical needs of others (like the hungry or homeless for example) is unethical.

You have what You NEED to KNOW already... Look at Your own signature and Live UP to that 'Truth'

But that is coming from Me, the "other You" and Mine reads "There is no "good" or "bad" there just 'is'... ergo, I don't have this dilemma.

I could guess where You found this 'evil this' and 'evil that' was there an option for anything 'good' to balance it out? Or did that only come after You attended a workshop or sold enough tickets or put in more $$$ in the basket that they seem to be more concerned with??

Jesus The Christ said "You are NOT Your body" The body is just a vessel to carry around Your Soul. Working from Your anahata chakra cannot be 'wrong'..

Who let the DOGMA out? whoo whoo?

The Tao that can be told or typed is NOT the Eternal Tao.

namaste

Lots of unknowns and assumptions serve as foundations for our beliefs...

For instance, assuming that God is the only creator and creates only good, then everything in existence is good.

a reply to: JimNasium

This!!

I would have to agree with what you wrote.

And I would just add that there are always at least two prospectives, the most basic ones are relative and absolute. Those concepts are different and are not to be put in the same boat regarding God.

For instance in your case OP, where you are helping people in need with food or other material or non-material stuff that will never be considered bad. Because unity in the absolute sense is the main point and love is the connector to everything. But relative from your personal prospective. YOU should work on yourself and disregard attachments towards material and cultivate focus with one pointed concentration on the spirit/soul which is doubtless and always in balance and just IS.

at least that is the way I think about OP question and I hope that my point is understood because language barrier is a bi***

a reply to: JimNasium

I was disagreeing with the premise that the body is evil and against the spirit, because that leads to the conclusion that therefore compassion for human suffering such as hunger, does not matter, since the body is evil anyway, but to me it does matter because it inspires compassion and therefore helps people feel more connected and more helpful towards helping humanity out of unnecessary suffering through care and acts of kindness.

originally posted by: arpgme
Generosity to help the poor and hungry would be bad/illusion since that is physical. Maybe by "body vs spirit", I was seeing things the wrong way. Matter is just dense energy, so in reality there is only energy.

If all is energy then there is nothing wrong with loving things and people.


Most of the universal ethics such as "don't kill" and "don't steal", is a part of the way we interaction in the physical. Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical.

And so, you have demolished the Gnostic Heresy with logic.

a reply to: arpgme

You're thinking of physicality like solids or objects, when physical is more like light, images, or forms.

What makes a thing solid is not the light, but the forces of it.

Every moment we sacrifice our body/images to one another in the same manner as me making these words for you to consume. Just as Jesus said eat of this bread, you are eating of my bread/fruit as you consume these words.

And what is the sacrifice and consumption for? It is for conception - so by me giving you the image of my concepts, you can conceive the spirit/will properly. It is for producing awareness of the spirit. That is, the Light is to lead you to Father, who is the awareness of the Spirit.

I keep saying this over and over, it is the easiest way to see it:

My words are images of my awareness/concepts/soul, (Word/Image/Body/Son)
my concepts are my awareness of my forces/will/spirit, (Awareness/Concepts/Soul/Father)
and my spirit is my will to reproduce good/love in you. (Forces/Will/Spirit/Holy Ghost)

So you can with that example as well, why all three are one: My words are the image of my concepts/conception of my spirit/will. Just one thing like that sentence is one thing.

Do yourself a favor and go read everything you can about the Christian concept of Logos until it clicks and starts making sense to you.