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This is what happens when you play both sides.

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posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 03:53 AM
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a reply to: ecapsretuo


But Lavrov's statements are significant because they are public, and come from a ranking government official.


Because no Russian official has ever told a lie.




posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 06:21 AM
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There should be a limit in greed vs public dignity and the lobbies behind the US govt's position in Syria have passed that limit again. It's about oil, gas and money as usual, not really ISIS or bs like that, and this will just translate into hate vs US soldiers and citizens, who can't bail out of the # at will.

This conflict was fake since the start. We know the US govt wanted Assad, we know they didn't get the public support and magically a group of terrorists with exceptional military and economic resources appears to seize the Syrian resources and occupy the territory. Why didn't we set up a real investigation on who funds these groups and how have they been armed? Because we know who supported and armed them.

For 3 years things slowly moved against Assad until at some point the Russians move their asses exploiting the stupidity of the western narrative in the syrian war, something like "We're fighting ISIS! They are bad! We are here for them not Syria! We just support moderate rebels (the ones that used chemical weapons, you know)".

So Putin can move in with the perfect excuse "We're here to fight ISIS aswell, you know we are here because the legitimate president of this sovereign state needs help and is our ally" cracking the eggs of those who stalled it.

At this point the narrative changed: "Putin is there and it will escalate the conflict"... how? "Putin is there to protect Assad", ye and then? "Assad is bad" mmm ok but isn't ISIS the reasons there is a conflict there? And now "Putin is the cause of the mass exodus, one way or another" ye, who buys that?

There is an enormous disconnect between the media, the government, the army and the people in the US. This propaganda is not really addressed to the whole spectrum of the society, it's warmongering for the scared masses, it caters mostly to eastern europeans/caucasian and cold-war-brainswashed people and it's not really working well in western Europe and in leftist middle class of USA citizens.
Russia is getting more public support by just playing reactively to the goofy moves of western media and politicians. They are trying to deal with it diplomatically, since they don't have the brute force to do it militarily, and they end up with a better apparent position in a lot of people. By just not being dumb ffs!

Advocates of anti-Putin propaganda are doing a terrible job because the banking oligarchs are forcing the military and the government into ridiculous situations which are impossible to justify to everyone.
Frankly, thinking there is no "western-hand" in the Orange Revolution, Maiden, Arab Spring and ISIS is just laughable. Believing that the coalition is in Syria to fight ISIS without boots on the ground is even more laughable. Meanwhile Europe is invaded and has even LESS reasons to continue the conflict.


(post by ReadyAREyou removed for a manners violation)

posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: ReadyAREyou

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: the2ofusr1

So why don't the Russians repeat the offer now?


I think Russians should pay you more

So that you shill for them instead because it makes no difference to you

Money money money


Is that why you shill for Russia? Money?



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: Mastronaut

Putin is worth over 200 billion. Feel free to explain how he acquired such wealth.


a reply to: DJW001
Ignore him... Caring what he thinks and spending time to respond only encourages continued ignorance.

edit on 17-9-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




ISIS is the creation of the Syrian Rebels. We know this, and yet we continue to support them. In my eyes, that makes the USA responsible for the Syrian mess.


And would be ENTIRELY wrong.



The civil war in Syria, whose Alawite regime Saudi Arabia's Sunny monarchy has long plotted against, and the prospect of a war with Shiite Iran over its reported drive to acquire nuclear weapons, preoccupy Riyadh while, Abdallah, Canute-like, strives to keep the democratic wave from breaking on its shores.


www.upi.com...



Some applaud that ISIS is fighting Iranian Shiite "fire" with Sunni "fire";


You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia

ALL of the crap going down in the middle east is because of Saudi Arabia(Sunni) and Iran(Shia) trying to control it.

Those two countries right there.

Those two sects within Islam vying for a regional hegemony.

Have ALL of the blame.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: neo96

America and Britain are the ones who screwed up the the ME to begin with. Where do you think these "extremists" come from? Who created the muslim brotherhood?

Bottom line is ISIS came from the Syrian Rebels and America is supporting those rebels. We are responsible for this mess. We need to destroy ISIS and withdraw.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Putin is worth over 200 billion. Feel free to explain how he acquired such wealth.


It doesn't take much, Putin accumulated wealth like all the other russian and ukranian and khazaki oligarchs: by selling the soviet carcass, by getting shares of giants like Gazprom when they were "privatized" etc.
Contrary to most billionaires that go into a powerful position he also cleared the debt and restarted russian economy after the fall of the soviet and gained a lot more consensus than the typical western oligarch.

Feel free to explain in relation to what is your sentence about. It makes no sense without a quote.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 08:54 PM
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a reply to: Mastronaut

I was pointing out your hypocrisy.

Putins billions come from the rape of the Russian people. You willfully chose to ignore that and instead tried to paint a one sided picture once again blaming only the west.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 01:32 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Mastronaut
I was pointing out your hypocrisy.

Putins billions come from the rape of the Russian people. You willfully chose to ignore that and instead tried to paint a one sided picture once again blaming only the west.



It's funny how you talk about hypocrisy and forget that we live in the world that colonized 3 continent by raping everyone, and that you live in the country that "raped" most of the countries in the middle east in the last 40 years.
And you also seem to think that George Bush didn't steal anything, it's all due.

I blame the west because the stupidity and greed of our politicians make a kgb crony a better president. But I also blame people like you who go spread bull#s just for the sake of funneling hate, because frankly if you are not doing it for a living it does make as much sense as your comment.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 01:50 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

As if there aren't billions and likely trillions in offshore accounts held by US officials...

Not saying either side is right but just pointing out the lunacy of pretending one is.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 08:21 AM
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Goal is the same-Assad must go. Even though they don't say it anymore, even though they seem to be having difficulty cracking the Syrian nut, they are bombing Syria as we speak.

Thousands of airstrikes to get the bogeymen later, and still not done? Thats because Assad is still in power.

Forther: As long as he is, the main stream mill will continue to blame ISIS for the bombs falling on that country. Look at the streams of refugees, you think some guys in black pajamas in pick up trucks are responsible for that?
edit on 18-9-2015 by intrptr because: further:



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: intrptr


Look at the streams of refugees, you think some guys in black pajamas in pick up trucks are responsible for that?


Nope, Assad is. Why do you think they are heading west to Europe instead of north to Russia?



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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Russia is doing their part, supplying the legitimate government of Syria with arms and training to employ them.

As opposed to EU member states who assist NATO in destroying the Syrian government and military by terrorism.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: intrptr


Russia is doing their part, supplying the legitimate government of Syria with arms and training to employ them


Is a government that uses chlorine gas on its citizens legitimate? Might that not be why refugees are headed west instead of north?
edit on 18-9-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: DJW001


Is a government that uses chlorine gas on its citizens legitimate? Might that not be why refugees are headed west instead of north?

No, thousands of US "airstrikes" since last year. The concussion, frag and toxic smoke from heavy ordnance far outweigh any "chlorine terror" attacks being blown out of proportion.

Bombs are far more destructive



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: intrptr


No, thousands of US "airstrikes" since last year. The concussion, frag and toxic smoke from heavy ordnance far outweigh any "chlorine terror" attacks being blown out of proportion.


Got it! The EU and US are so implacably evil that people are risking their lives to go there rather than flocking to Mother Russia, who clearly loves them so much. When Russia has an immigration crisis, maybe someone will start to believe their pro-Assad propaganda. Once again, people would rather die than flee to Russia. Think about it.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: DJW001




When Russia has an immigration crisis, maybe someone will start to believe their pro-Assad propaganda. Once again, people would rather die than flee to Russia. Think about it.


Syrian refugees are not going to Russia for two main reasons

1. Russia is not a welfare state. This is also a main reason, otherwise why they don't stay in Serbia and other less developed European countries.
2 Russia doesn't have close borders with Turkey. It is much easier to swim 10-15 km from Turkey to Greece than several hundred km in the Black Sea to the Russian shores.

I was hearing a nice explanation from Satanovsky - Russian Jewish expert on Middle East about recent refugee eruption.

Turkey is accomodating about 2-4 mln refugees. Those refugees become a problem for local Turkish population ( rising crime, general xenophobia etc). Erdogan is going to have another parlamentarian elections once again to try and receive an absolute majority for his party. So, Erdogan wants to please his electorate and evict as much refugees from the Turkish soil as possible. Why do you think marine border control is not working lol ? Greece also decided to make some kind of revenge against Germany by allowing all those refugees to transit Greece



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: kitzik


1. Russia is not a welfare state. This is also a main reason, otherwise why they don't stay in Serbia and other less developed European countries.


So you are saying that the refugees are economic, not political?


2 Russia doesn't have close borders with Turkey. It is much easier to swim 10-15 km from Turkey to Greece than several hundred km in the Black Sea to the Russian shores.


From Syria, it's easier to get to Russia via Georgia than Europe via the Balkans. Try again.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: DJW001




So you are saying that the refugees are economic, not political?


Obviously, their lives are not in immediate danger even when if they just stay in Turkey. Of course there is not much love between Turks and Arabs, but according to the common sense and international law they are no more war refugees when they are fleeing Turkey towards Europe.




From Syria, it's easier to get to Russia via Georgia than Europe via the Balkans.


Let me disagree. Russian Georgian border is not Schengen area lol. Even Serbia is preferable to be stuck in than Abkhazia

And, I'm not trying ... Drop down your tone 2 notches.


edit on 18-9-2015 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



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