New Mexico Court Forced a Mother To Take Religious Classes Or Face Losing Her Kids

a reply to: Annee

What is the difference?

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Nope. What you do, is stand up to unjust laws. You do not let them steamroll you. Just because submission is your way of life does not mean others have to live by your standards.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Sorry you can't comprehend. I specifically said you keep fighting until what should be matches reality. But you have to adjust and play the game of the reality until that time. If you want to jump in on the end of a thread you might serve yourself well to read all the post before making a comment like this to someone. It avoids you looking clueless if you make sad statements on things addressed. Not surprised.

I can't comprehend? The person who talks to imaginary gods says that i can't comprehend? That is too funny. You have admittedly messed your life up, and the best advice you can give is to "play the game"? Reality is not your strong suit. Your pompous attitude gives away your insecurities. You should read more and post less.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Annee

What is the difference?

Higher power can be anything you relate to.

Like I said earlier: it could be the concept of riding a motorcycle on an open highway. I did not make that up. It came from a guy in my brothers AA group.

Wilson, founder of AA.

Wilson later wrote that he found the Oxford Group aggressive in their evangelism. He objected to the group's publicity-seeking and intolerance of nonbelievers, and those alcoholics who were practicing Catholics found their views to be in conflict with the Oxford teachings.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Nope. What you do, is stand up to unjust laws. You do not let them steamroll you. Just because submission is your way of life does not mean others have to live by your standards.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Sorry you can't comprehend. I specifically said you keep fighting until what should be matches reality. But you have to adjust and play the game of the reality until that time. If you want to jump in on the end of a thread you might serve yourself well to read all the post before making a comment like this to someone. It avoids you looking clueless if you make sad statements on things addressed. Not surprised.

I can't comprehend? The person who talks to imaginary gods says that i can't comprehend? That is too funny. You have admittedly messed your life up, and the best advice you can give is to "play the game"? Reality is not your strong suit. Your pompous attitude gives away your insecurities. You should read more and post less.

Imaginary gods??? You really have no comprehension skills at all, what imaginary gods do you think I talk to????My life is fine, started rough. I grew up, understood you have to deal with the reality of the now and adjust.

Do you have any clue what you are posting or is this a desperation move?

a reply to: Annee

How can riding a motorcycle be a higher power? That is a flimsy excuse to try and disguise the notion of a god into a convo where it doesn't belong. This is simply how they have changed the wording so that fence sitters don't get all up in arms about the notion that they are talking about a god. A higher power? Atheists still don't believe in such things. So there is still that problem.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Annee

How can riding a motorcycle be a higher power? That is a flimsy excuse to try and disguise the notion of a god into a convo where it doesn't belong. This is simply how they have changed the wording so that fence sitters don't get all up in arms about the notion that they are talking about a god. A higher power? Atheists still don't believe in such things. So there is still that problem.

Why?

I take it you are a God believer.

a reply to: C21H30O2I

Most ATS members seemed happy okay with judges being absolute dictators in the USA when one of them ordered Kim Davis in jail for doing "a bad job" by refusing to follow a law perceived as immoral. Now that the authoritarian tyrant judges are moving in a direction against their personal opinions in this case, they seem to now realize that it actually isn't cool at all when they push people around in ways that violate their moral code, or in this case are possibly against their freedom of religion.

In both this case, and the Kim Davis case, you have an activist judge trying to enforce moral reformation on someone who isn't cooperating in the way the judge wants. I think its fine for judges to enforce universally accepted standards of ethics, but not local or culture specific morals.

Perhaps then, in a system where US courtrooms are not authoritarian dictatorships, can court ruling begin to make more sense. As it stands, most US judges are given the power to jail anyone in their courtroom for life without a trial.

a reply to: C21H30O2I

It has been ruled on by many states, and I believe the Supreme Court that non religious counseling services need to be made available. If you're an alcoholic and sentenced to AA for example, you can choose another similar program that's not faith based.

originally posted by: wayforward
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Most ATS members seemed happy okay with judges being absolute dictators in the USA when one of them ordered Kim Davis in jail for doing "a bad job" by refusing to follow a law perceived as immoral.

This again?

Nothing changed in Kim's job description. She verifies clerical information. That's it.

No law was changed. Allowing some to marry and not others is unconstitutional.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Metallicus

Of course you don't. You believe in all of that crap. She wasn't just praying. The entire curriculum centered around the belief in supernatural beings. Did you not read the story? The counseler made her write an essay about what god meant to her.

If I had to do that, I would write that God to me means conflict. It has been one of the primary motivators of the masses to kill each other in wars for thousands of years. I don't think they would like my essay very much.

a reply to: Annee

No. Far from it.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Nope. What you do, is stand up to unjust laws. You do not let them steamroll you. Just because submission is your way of life does not mean others have to live by your standards.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Sorry you can't comprehend. I specifically said you keep fighting until what should be matches reality. But you have to adjust and play the game of the reality until that time. If you want to jump in on the end of a thread you might serve yourself well to read all the post before making a comment like this to someone. It avoids you looking clueless if you make sad statements on things addressed. Not surprised.

I can't comprehend? The person who talks to imaginary gods says that i can't comprehend? That is too funny. You have admittedly messed your life up, and the best advice you can give is to "play the game"? Reality is not your strong suit. Your pompous attitude gives away your insecurities. You should read more and post less.

Imaginary gods??? You really have no comprehension skills at all, what imaginary gods do you think I talk to????My life is fine, started rough. I grew up, understood you have to deal with the reality of the now and adjust.

Do you have any clue what you are posting or is this a desperation move?

Did i step into a john titor time slip? Or are you pretending you are not religious now? Spiritual or whatever?

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Nope. What you do, is stand up to unjust laws. You do not let them steamroll you. Just because submission is your way of life does not mean others have to live by your standards.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Sorry you can't comprehend. I specifically said you keep fighting until what should be matches reality. But you have to adjust and play the game of the reality until that time. If you want to jump in on the end of a thread you might serve yourself well to read all the post before making a comment like this to someone. It avoids you looking clueless if you make sad statements on things addressed. Not surprised.

I can't comprehend? The person who talks to imaginary gods says that i can't comprehend? That is too funny. You have admittedly messed your life up, and the best advice you can give is to "play the game"? Reality is not your strong suit. Your pompous attitude gives away your insecurities. You should read more and post less.

Imaginary gods??? You really have no comprehension skills at all, what imaginary gods do you think I talk to????My life is fine, started rough. I grew up, understood you have to deal with the reality of the now and adjust.

Do you have any clue what you are posting or is this a desperation move?

Did i slip into a john titor time slip? Or are you pretending you are not religious now? Spiritual or whatever?

I pretend nothing. I'm pretty standard in all postings dealing with religion. You should look some up. Again you have no clue what you are posting. On top of it the last time we debated was about 5 weeks ago. You claimed that the state you live in Tennessee has an open racist policy. Not realizing I also live in Tennessee. When I went through all the places that I am frequently in such as hermitage, mt. Juliet, cool springs, Brentwood, Franklin Lebanon, have family all over in spring hill,Portland, downtown ( all over, batman building area, church street. Etc) not only were you caught telling lies, you couldn't even muster a response as to where the supposed open racist policy is in Tennessee because it doesn't exist.

Basically my interaction with you so far has been false claims, accusations, assumptions, and so forth. So do you have anything of value to add or did you get caught, this time making posts without reading the previous ones then got defensive about it?

I was having a nice debate with annee, we seem to have come to an agreement or at least where each other was coming from pertaining to the op and this lady's situation. Then you jump in with , well the type of post you make. Anything of value to add? Anymore assumptions, accusations, false claims? If so post them all at once.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
If it really happend as she said, then it is disgusting.

The councillor is a lier, she lies on air. She claims she only talks about god if the clients ask, and if they are not religious she doesnt, but there's hidden camera footage of her talking about god. She also isn't allowed to work in a public library and charge cash, having her clients book the room and hiding payment, when asked on air "this question isn't appropriate".

The woman is full of it.

a reply to: wayforward

I don't agree with rogue judges, I have always been critical of them and police. at any rate. Kim Davis, well I just think mostly, she was being hateful. The impression I got. Oh and she thinks she's better? Nah the judge? in that case enforcing the law. Different deals if you ask me. Pepper can be removed from the issue and a new counselor can be inserted. I think I had the choice a 3 different counselors, when I had to go through similar things. The Davis case is not that easy. Unless, of course they just remove Davis?

originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
If it really happend as she said, then it is disgusting.

The councillor is a lier, she lies on air. She claims she only talks about god if the clients ask, and if they are not religious she doesnt, but there's hidden camera footage of her talking about god. She also isn't allowed to work in a public library and charge cash, having her clients book the room and hiding payment, when asked on air "this question isn't appropriate".

The woman is full of it.

I agree!! She is just shady too. She knows what she is doing! and the manner in which she operates, shady!

originally posted by: harvestdog
Mentioning God as they do in the 12 steps of AA, is obvious religion.

I've been looking into this and there are a couple things I want to mention.

First, it's been decades since I even had the curiosity to LOOK at the 12 steps. And my memory is probably off, but I THOUGHT the ONLY mention of "God" was to turn your life over to a "power greater than yourself", or "God", as you understand him. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the program has morphed into a holy roller situation, given the push in that direction. Of course, I don't drink and I've never been to a meeting, but my understanding was that it was very open-minded as regards one's concept of "higher power".

Seems today, it isn't like that at all. So, I agree with you. No one should be legally forced to attend a religious event, whether counseling or not.

Original 6 Steps of AA

We admitted that we were licked, that we were powerless over alcohol.
We made a moral inventory of our defects or sins.
We confessed or shared our shortcomings with another person in confidence.
We made restitution to all those we had harmed by our drinking.
We tried to help other alcoholics, with no thought of reward in money or prestige.
We prayed to whatever God we thought there was for power to practice these precepts.

originally posted by: wayforward
Most ATS members seemed happy okay with judges being absolute dictators in the USA when one of them ordered Kim Davis in jail for doing "a bad job" by refusing to follow a law perceived as immoral.

She was not jailed for doing "a bad job". That's ridiculous! She was jailed for disobeying a court order. Not only was SHE breaking the law, she had been prohibiting her staff from following the law, too. No one could get a marriage license in that county since June, because she wasn't allowing it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: harvestdog
Mentioning God as they do in the 12 steps of AA, is obvious religion.

I've been looking into this and there are a couple things I want to mention.

First, it's been decades since I even had the curiosity to LOOK at the 12 steps. And my memory is probably off, but I THOUGHT the ONLY mention of "God" was to turn your life over to a "power greater than yourself", or "God", as you understand him. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the program has morphed into a holy roller situation, given the push in that direction. Of course, I don't drink and I've never been to a meeting, but my understanding was that it was very open-minded as regards one's concept of "higher power".

Seems today, it isn't like that at all. So, I agree with you. No one should be legally forced to attend a religious event, whether counseling or not.

Original 6 Steps of AA

We admitted that we were licked, that we were powerless over alcohol.
We made a moral inventory of our defects or sins.
We confessed or shared our shortcomings with another person in confidence.
We made restitution to all those we had harmed by our drinking.
We tried to help other alcoholics, with no thought of reward in money or prestige.
We prayed to whatever God we thought there was for power to practice these precepts.

So a question. I don't have a drinking issue, always finish mine and never spill it. But is the push in aa towards God if one exist more along the lines of maybe you need to talk more than in a meeting so the push maybe talk to a higher power and don't think you are going crazy in the process? Again don't know but I assume in therapy the push is always talking, if no one is available still talk, but don't think your crazy for doing it?

a reply to: Reallyfolks

That's interesting. You know, if I talk out loud, to myself. Sounding out things, you know, it helps. But If I think, myself or people in general, talk out loud, to God I think that's crazy. I haven't tried to talk out loud to any type of God, for a long time mind you. I think that's crazy. hehe I don't know, It's something, that from an early age, for me. I cant do religion/god, in any shape or form. Nothing crazy happened to me, Just like, one day a light came on and well, It's just not for me.

Besides, isn't praying, just talking to oneself, kinda like positive thinking? Boosting yourself up and just thinking a god, is helping? never mind, I'm no good at religion talk. Just ends up a big mes.