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Donald Trump Flip-Flops on Canada-Born Ted Cruz's Eligibility to Run

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posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce



Whose head should it be hung over?

Obama's of course after all everything is his fault.




posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: Swills

It's good to know that TRUMP is well-balanced. He's now "flip-flopping" like all down-to-earth people do, from time to time.



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: hellobruce

Why should it have to be hung over anyone's head? Because you think he's not trustworthy, so you remain the executioner?
Who's campaign are you working for?



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: SachaX
a reply to: hellobruce

Why should it have to be hung over anyone's head?


Let us see, who pushed the lie Obama was not eligible to be POTUS? Trump did!

Who pushed the lie Cruz was not eligible to be POTUS? Trump did!


Because you think he's not trustworthy,


His own actions have done that!


Who's campaign are you working for?


It is obvious you are working for Trump!



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce

lol
I don't work for Trump. Or any candidate for that matter.
If you guys wanna boast a non-issue then go ahead. I was just trying to give a different take here and let some people know that to some, this story does not matter.



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: SachaX
a reply to: hellobruce

lol
I don't work for Trump. Or any candidate for that matter.
If you guys wanna boast a non-issue then go ahead. I was just trying to give a different take here and let some people know that to some, this story does not matter.


It certainly does matter to you, you seem upset that Trump is shown to be a flip-flopping hypocrite!



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
For birthers, the matter is purely political and little to nothing to do with eligibility or the constitution. It was pretty obvious from the start. Trump makes this more so apparent.


There is no doubt the origin of the controversy was political but you cannot deny there was always something up with Obama's birth certificate. From its first release on DailyKos to the photos of the document posted on Factcheck.org, to Trump setting the stage for Obama to release his long form birth certificate.

I actually have a personal experience that, for me, sheds light on Trump's interest then sudden disinterest in the issue. In 2008, I was a Hillary supporter (I am an 'Unaffiliated' voter these days) & I was interested in the birther issue from the outset.

In early 2011, I wrote an open records request to the Hawaii Department of Health after noticing that Factcheck.org published a cropped photo of the BACKSIDE of the seal impression on Obama's short form COLB, and incorrectly captioned it, "The raised seal."

This was the photo they captioned:



Their article with that photo & caption can be viewed through the WayBackMachine at this address: www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

However, had Factcheck captioned the FRONT of the seal impression, people would have noticed the seal is not raised (embossed), at all -- it's lowered (debossed). The seal was actually applied to the back of the document. Here are two of Factcheck's photos showing the front of the seal:





These facts are not in dispute, Factcheck labeled the wrong side of the seal.

From realizing Factcheck's error, I then found quotes from Senators Arlen Specter and Bob Casey stating they actually viewed the document on Factcheck.org, & that Factcheck verified the document had the requisite "raised seal" which satisfied their questions in determining the document was authentic.

But Factcheck was wrong. So, two members of Congress were *ahem* defrauded into believing the seal was raised by Factcheck 'error.' For example, Arlen Specter was quoted as follows:


“On June 13, 2008, the Obama campaign released a copy of his birth certificate after numerous claims were made about his eligibility to hold the office of President. The released copy created additional questions, because it contained a blacked out department file number and was apparently missing a seal, and it was impossible to detect raised text, a common characteristic of official documents. There were satisfactory answers to such questions, however: the department file number had been blacked out to prevent hackers from breaking into the Health Department’s system, and the State places the seal on the back of the certificate. The website Factcheck.org investigated the matter and provided high-resolution photos taken at multiple angles that revealed the raised text and the seal on the back of the document. … Accordingly, it has been concluded that President Obama has met the constitutional qualifications to be President of the United States."


I also found that the Hawaii Department of Health rules and regulations REQUIRE the department's raised seal embossment to be used in certifying copies of vital records.


Hawaii Public Health Regulations, Chapter 8b
2.4 Issuance of Certified Copies of Vital Records
B. Standards for Copies of Vital Records
(1) Standard Copy
(b) Form of certification. Standard certified copies shall contain an appropriate certification statement over the signature of the registrar having custody of the record and be impressed with the RAISED seal of the issuing office. The signature may be photographed or entered by mechanical means. The paper shall display the official seal of the Department of Health or the seal of the State.

[AND]

(2) Abbreviated Copy
(b) Form of certification. This will be the SAME as for a standard certified copy.


And the HDOH rules state:


HAR§11-1-2 – Seal of the department of health.
(b) The official seal of the department of health shall be EMBOSSED near the signature of the director of health to verify commissions of appointment of deputy directors and notaries public, certificates, and other formal official documents on which the official seal has been customarily used or is appropriate to be used, as the director of health may determine on a case-by-case basis.


These facts, too, are not in dispute: a RAISED seal should appear on all certified vital records' copies issued by the Hawaii Department of Health and members of Congress were looking for one when verifying the document was authentic.

So, I emailed an open records request to the Hawaii Department of Health, under the Uniform Information Practices Act (UIPA), & requested a copy of their official seal DEBOSSMENT as photographed on the back of Obama's birth certificate. I also sent them the photos that Factcheck.org staff took of the seal and sent definitions for the terms "embossed" and "debossed" -- so there would be no mistake in communication. I specifically stated that I did not wish to obtain a copy of their official seal embossment.

They responded with this:


"Attached is a graphited copy of the embossed Department of Health seal. Regarding the remainder of your request, we have no records responsive to your request."


It was frustrating that they included a copy of their embossed seal in their response because I specifically excluded an embossed seal from my request. But, nonetheless, they said they did not maintain the record I requested -- the seal debossment photographed on the back of Obama's short form Certificate of Live Birth.

I attempted to get a more formal response but they stated they had already responded in accordance with the UIPA.

At that time, I administered a Wordpress blog and began posting on my experience and what I found.

But, lo' and behold, who suddenly took up the birth certificate issue at the same time? Donald Trump. He took all eyes away from what I gleaned from my open records request and after Obama released his 'long form birth certificate' in response to Donald's interest, everyone has been distracted by the long form ever since.

According to my own personal experience, I believe Donald Trump helped Obama with regard to the birth certificate issue. I don't expect everyone to accept my story, but I have confidence that I uncovered a truth.

And that truth has led me to many other truths, since 2011, so I am grateful for that experience -- even if i never reached one other person with my story.

So, my interest in the issue did begin as a political bone to pick -- I admit it -- but I am grateful for the many truths that I have uncovered through my interest in this particular controversy.

edit on 16-9-2015 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a RAISED seal should appear on all certified vital records' copies issued by the Hawaii Department of Health


Just like the one shown on Obama's BC....


the seal is not raised (embossed), at all -- it's lowered (debossed).


Oh dear, you do not even realise that to emboss a seal the other side has to be debossed!


they said they did not maintain the record I requested -- the seal debossment photographed on the back of Obama's short form Certificate of Live Birth.


Just why do you think they would have a copy of a photograph taken by someone else in their records?

You also do not realise paper copies of BC's like the one in this thread do not exist until they are asked to produce them.



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce

Please. Don't even try to argue this with me. I have 18 years as a graphic designer under my belt.

An embossed seal is raised when the seal is facing you. Obama's seal is debossed.

The difference between between embossing and debossing is clear in this image -- the top image is an embossment, the bottom image is a debossment:




Of course the backside of a debossed seal is reversed and embossed, and the backside of an embossed seal is reversed and debossed.

That doesn't change what's on the front.

And I did not ask for a copy of a photo, I asked for a copy of the seal debossment photographed on the back of Obama's birth certificate.

Save your 'Oh, dears," for yourself. I have ordered many embossed and debossed materials over the years. It's not 'accidental' how they are produced.

I get it though -- it's tough to realize that Birthers were on to some real truth. You've been well-trained to ridicule and dismiss them entirely. You were wrong though, and you were used. It sucks, I know.
edit on 16-9-2015 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I asked for a copy of the seal debossment photographed on the back of Obama's birth certificate.


But you still have no understanding at all about BC's, (like most birthers) that they do not exist until they are ordered and printed, so why would Hawaii have a copy of Obama's BC to photograph?


It's not 'accidental' how they are produced.


True, nor is it "accidental" how some people refuse to accept reality!



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I asked for a copy of the seal debossment photographed on the back of Obama's birth certificate.


But you still have no understanding at all about BC's, (like most birthers) that they do not exist until they are ordered and printed, so why would Hawaii have a copy of Obama's BC to photograph?


I did not ask for a photograph. I asked for a copy of the seal on the back of Obama's short form Certificate of Live Birth. I have said that TWICE.



originally posted by: hellobruce

True, nor is it "accidental" how some people refuse to accept reality!


You are living proof of that.

edit on 16-9-2015 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I asked for a copy of the seal on the back of Obama's short form Certificate of Live Birth. I have said that TWICE.


You also said that they sent you it....

Attached is a graphited copy of the embossed Department of Health seal


You still do not understand that to emboss something the other side is debossed!



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce
You also said that they sent you it....


Nope, I did not. They sent me a copy of their embossed seal -- it was raised and they laid a sheet of paper over it and rubbed a pencil over it to transfer the raised areas.

Their seal is raised and embossed when looking at the front of it.

They stated they do not maintain the debossed seal on the back of Obama's short form birth certificate.



originally posted by: hellobruce
You still do not understand that to emboss something the other side is debossed!



Clearly I understand that the backside of a debossed seal is a reverse of the seal raised on the backside, and vice versa. I actually posted a pic of the backside of the seal debossment and showed how Factcheck incorrectly labeled the backside as 'The raised seal.'

This is a difficult subject for you, so please try to grasp it before commenting further.

Embossing and debossing are two different processes. If you spend a few minutes googling them, you will catch on. Good luck.
edit on 16-9-2015 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
They stated they do not maintain the debossed seal on the back of Obama's short form birth certificate.


You still show you have zero understanding how embossed seals work - you refuse to accept that to emboss the seal like Obama's BC has the other side has to be debossed!

www.obamaconspiracy.org...


originally posted by: hellobruce
You still do not understand that to emboss something the other side is debossed!



This is a difficult subject for you, so please try to grasp it before commenting further.


No, what is difficult is for birthers to have to admit that every silly birther court case has failed, over 200 of them and Obama is the legal POTUS! So they make up crap like you have in this thread and others!


edit on 16-9-2015 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 08:18 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

You still show you have zero understanding how embossed seals work - you refuse to accept that to emboss the seal like Obama's BC has the other side has to be debossecd!


Yes, the reversed backside of the seal is raised. It says, "“HTLAEH FO TNEMTRAPED” and “IIAWAH FO ETATS,”

It does NOT read: “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and “STATE OF HAWAII.”

The seal is debossed when you are reading it -- the way it's intended to be read.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Geez.


originally posted by: hellobruce
You still do not understand that to emboss something the other side is debossed!


Something is either debossed or embossed, not both. When you order a device to impress a seal or any image, you choose one or the other. You don't somehow get both on both sides. One side is in reverse.


originally posted by: hellobruceNo, what is difficult is for birthers to have to admit that every silly birther court case has failed, over 200 of them and Obama is the legal POTUS! So they make up crap like you have in this thread and others!



They don't represent me and I never signed on for them to represent me. I suspect many of those cases were intended to fail from the outset.
edit on 16-9-2015 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: hellobruce

I'm trying to understand why this is so important to you and potentially to everyone else, and you go and do this: 1. Not answer the question, and 2. Attack me.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: KEACHI
This flip flop term is total BS!

People can change their minds. The reason for the change can be because of new knowledge, better understanding, newly gained empathy, or just a change of opinion. All of these are done by people regularly. All are valid reasons. I believe people that actually do change their minds on topics tend to be more thoughtful and intelligent. I also believe the ones that call them flip floppers are generally narrow minded and narcissistic. a reply to: Southern Guardian






Well!
I have no doubt that John Kerry would be glad to hear someone agrees with him about someone changing their mind after they get conflicting information on a given subject.
That was his explaination for "changing " his mind about the war in Iraq, was't it?



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

I mean technically he is right, Cruz is and has always been eligible to run for the Presidency.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 08:30 AM
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Yes.... this opens up the door for Arnold.

Just as planned.




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